TrickyTrev Posted November 15, 2017 Share Posted November 15, 2017 7 minutes ago, room0035 said: I agree but If Liverpool had not given Michael Owen and Steven Gerrard, or Manchester United giving Ryan Giggs a chance in the first team at 18 then may never had made it. You can only beat what is put in front of you and the lad has shown he can score goals, one 41 minute appearance against Cambridge in the cup I hope will not be the only time he gets a chance but i fear it will Going out on loan can be equally beneficial, just look at David Beckham, Ross Barkley, Gary Cahill and Deli Ali. With Forestieri, Hooper, Fletcher, Rhodes and Joao already at the club, there’s absolutely no reason to be playing George Hirst in the first team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ethel The Tree Posted November 15, 2017 Share Posted November 15, 2017 12 minutes ago, timrud said: I didn't think we are eligable? I don't know whether the U23 sides apply to be included in the Checkatrade Trophy or are invited Either way, of the 16 taking part this season, 8 are from PL2 Division 1 and 8 from PL2 Division 2 It would appear teams from the PDL are excluded As scram pointed out, most of these sides have fared poorly against under-strength sides from Leagues 1&2 Personally, I still get the chills thinking about our U18s getting dismantled at Alfreton a few years back Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
room0035 Posted November 15, 2017 Share Posted November 15, 2017 20 minutes ago, TrickyTrev said: Going out on loan can be equally beneficial, just look at David Beckham, Ross Barkley, Gary Cahill and Deli Ali. With Forestieri, Hooper, Fletcher, Rhodes and Joao already at the club, there’s absolutely no reason to be playing George Hirst in the first team. I agree but even if he had not signed a new deal send him out on loan, he does well we get more for him in January, he doesn't do well we know we have not missed out on anything - not to mention we get some of the cost of wages of our bills or we get a loan fee. Instead we are letting him sit out his contract on full pay and we will get a development fee for him but this is based on how long he is at the club and any first team opportunity. I found this of the current rules for valuing young players through tribunal PFCC hearings require each club to provide evidence to support their valuation of the player in question. In making its judgment the committee will take into account the costs of both clubs in operating a Football Academy or Centre of Excellence, as well as the age and playing record of the player, the length of time he was registered with his original club, the terms offered by both clubs, the status of the two clubs, the substantiated interest shown by other clubs in acquiring the registration of the player and any amounts paid by the original club to acquire the player in the first place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darra Posted November 15, 2017 Share Posted November 15, 2017 48 minutes ago, room0035 said: I agree but If Liverpool had not given Michael Owen and Steven Gerrard, or Manchester United giving Ryan Giggs a chance in the first team at 18 then may never had made it. You can only beat what is put in front of you and the lad has shown he can score goals, one 41 minute appearance against Cambridge in the cup I hope will not be the only time he gets a chance but i fear it will Problem is you're talking about 15 or so years ago. Different game then Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steelowl Posted November 15, 2017 Share Posted November 15, 2017 12 minutes ago, room0035 said: I agree but even if he had not signed a new deal send him out on loan, he does well we get more for him in January, he doesn't do well we know we have not missed out on anything - not to mention we get some of the cost of wages of our bills or we get a loan fee. Instead we are letting him sit out his contract on full pay and we will get a development fee for him but this is based on how long he is at the club and any first team opportunity. I found this of the current rules for valuing young players through tribunal PFCC hearings require each club to provide evidence to support their valuation of the player in question. In making its judgment the committee will take into account the costs of both clubs in operating a Football Academy or Centre of Excellence, as well as the age and playing record of the player, the length of time he was registered with his original club, the terms offered by both clubs, the status of the two clubs, the substantiated interest shown by other clubs in acquiring the registration of the player and any amounts paid by the original club to acquire the player in the first place. I mentioned this some weeks ago no one seemed to know I read somewhere the size of contract we offer that is rejected is important IF we know he's been tapped up It is therefore not in our interests to offer a rubbish contract really wish it hadn't come to this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
room0035 Posted November 15, 2017 Share Posted November 15, 2017 33 minutes ago, darra said: Problem is you're talking about 15 or so years ago. Different game then Yes but every player that ever played the game some one had to give him a chance, at the moment we are going for the quick fix and trying to buy success, which I understand but we are making so many mistakes doing it. In hindsight would we have been better giving Hirst a 3 year deal on a few thousand a week giving him time to develop on loan at league 1 and 2 instead of buying Nuihu, Winnall who never play a game one is now on loan and we are paying over £20k a week combined wages or the £1m a year. (this figure is based on Winnall being on £18,000 a week from when we signed him and Nuihu being on at least £2,000 a week - just in case Barmy accuses me of lying again) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Snooty Posted November 15, 2017 Share Posted November 15, 2017 Come on. Lets do this thing! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cowl Posted November 15, 2017 Share Posted November 15, 2017 5 minutes ago, room0035 said: Yes but every player that ever played the game some one had to give him a chance, at the moment we are going for the quick fix and trying to buy success, which I understand but we are making so many mistakes doing it. In hindsight would we have been better giving Hirst a 3 year deal on a few thousand a week giving him time to develop on loan at league 1 and 2 instead of buying Nuihu, Winnall who never play a game one is now on loan and we are paying over £20k a week combined wages or the £1m a year. (this figure is based on Winnall being on £18,000 a week from when we signed him and Nuihu being on at least £2,000 a week - just in case Barmy accuses me of lying again) I would expect Derby will be paying all of Winnall's wages. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronio Posted November 15, 2017 Share Posted November 15, 2017 It would be a huge mistake if we let George go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ethel The Tree Posted November 15, 2017 Share Posted November 15, 2017 1 hour ago, Ronio said: It would be a huge mistake if we let George go. I'll be sad to see young Hirsty leave But I can't see his departure being the result of a mistake - huge or otherwise Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BIG D Posted November 15, 2017 Share Posted November 15, 2017 (edited) 1 hour ago, Ronio said: It would be a huge mistake if we let George go. We’re not letting him go though. He’s decided to leave. Edited November 15, 2017 by BIG D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronio Posted November 15, 2017 Share Posted November 15, 2017 3 minutes ago, BIG D said: We’re not letting him go though. He’s decided to leave. Quite possibly. Either way it won't end well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ethel The Tree Posted November 15, 2017 Share Posted November 15, 2017 3 hours ago, Lord Snooty said: Come on. Lets do this thing! I bet this is the biggest reaction Matt Barlow has ever had to one of his 'articles' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Snooty Posted November 15, 2017 Share Posted November 15, 2017 3 minutes ago, Ethel The Tree said: I bet this is the biggest reaction Matt Barlow has ever had to one of his 'articles' Do you reckon he's on here? Or pressing refresh on The Fails comments section? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian Posted November 15, 2017 Share Posted November 15, 2017 3 hours ago, room0035 said: In hindsight would we have been better giving Hirst a 3 year deal on a few thousand a week giving him time to develop on loan at league 1 and 2 instead of buying Nuihu How many league 1 or 2 clubs do you think would have taken a 14 year old Hirst on loan which is how old he was when we signed Nuhiu?....never mind the thought of offering 14 year olds a deal worth £100k plus per year Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ethel The Tree Posted November 15, 2017 Share Posted November 15, 2017 1 hour ago, Lord Snooty said: Do you reckon he's on here? Or pressing refresh on The Fails comments section? I'm sure someone will have tipped him off by now His original piece produced 28 comments on the Daily Mail website So far, there have been around 680 posts on Owlstalk ... although, to be fair, we have Geoffrey to thank for some of those 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomtheOwl95 Posted November 15, 2017 Share Posted November 15, 2017 8 hours ago, Ethel The Tree said: I don't know whether the U23 sides apply to be included in the Checkatrade Trophy or are invited Either way, of the 16 taking part this season, 8 are from PL2 Division 1 and 8 from PL2 Division 2 It would appear teams from the PDL are excluded As scram pointed out, most of these sides have fared poorly against under-strength sides from Leagues 1&2 Personally, I still get the chills thinking about our U18s getting dismantled at Alfreton a few years back As far as I'm aware it's the top 16 academies in the country by rating that are asked if they wanted to take part and if they decline they go down the list. For example Manchester United aren't involved so someone will have jumped up the list. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BARMYARMY2010 Posted November 16, 2017 Share Posted November 16, 2017 (edited) 15 hours ago, room0035 said: Yes but every player that ever played the game some one had to give him a chance, at the moment we are going for the quick fix and trying to buy success, which I understand but we are making so many mistakes doing it. In hindsight would we have been better giving Hirst a 3 year deal on a few thousand a week giving him time to develop on loan at league 1 and 2 instead of buying Nuihu, Winnall who never play a game one is now on loan and we are paying over £20k a week combined wages or the £1m a year. (this figure is based on Winnall being on £18,000 a week from when we signed him and Nuihu being on at least £2,000 a week - just in case Barmy accuses me of lying again) Never let the facts get in the way eh. For God knows how many times, "Swfc have offered George Hirst a long term contract, making him the highest paid player for his age group" He's refused it. And you are lying about winnall and Nuhiu's wages. Edited November 16, 2017 by BARMYARMY2010 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
optimisticowl Posted November 16, 2017 Share Posted November 16, 2017 If and (or) when the expected happens, IMHO it won’t be Leicester that lands him, he could be worth one of those very complicated deals that makes him very expensive if he performs to expectations. I can’t see his dad pushing him in the direction of a Premier League relegation candidate, a club such as Liverpool comes to mind. Having said this I truly hope that I am wrong and he goes on to be an Owls legend, but I won’t hold my breath. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian Posted November 16, 2017 Share Posted November 16, 2017 (edited) 6 minutes ago, optimisticowl said: If and (or) when the expected happens, IMHO it won’t be Leicester that lands him, he could be worth one of those very complicated deals that makes him very expensive if he performs to expectations. I can’t see his dad pushing him in the direction of a Premier League relegation candidate, a club such as Liverpool comes to mind. Having said this I truly hope that I am wrong and he goes on to be an Owls legend, but I won’t hold my breath. If I was advising a young footballer I would be telling them that money is the most important aspect of their first contract as long as it makes a material difference.....by which I mean if the difference is £1k per week on a 2 year deal to £10k a week on a 4 year deal then take the money and get yourself set for life (if the options were £10k or £15k on a 4 year deal then I'd be saying there's little difference in long term financial security so go with the best footballing option even if it's the £10k one)......your next move would be the main career choice Edited November 16, 2017 by Ian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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