Turning defence into attack so quickly

[cardiff05]

Watching the Hull v Forest game, and a forest player kept charging forward at pace, causing havoc, beating players with trickery and speed of foot and the commentator said "that's what Forest do so well, they turn defence into attack, so quickly" 

Then I think of how Wednesday play, but I did remember Jack Hunt charging 60 yards at speed, only to pass it to someone who passed it back, and that player passed it back and within seconds we were back to where Jack Hunt started his run.

This passing it back and across the back, is just so boring and must have been drilled into the players. Long season ahead. 

[Holmowl]

2 minutes ago, cardiff05 said:

Watching the Hull v Forest game, and a forest player kept charging forward at pace, causing havoc, beating players with trickery and speed of foot and the commentator said "that's what Forest do so well, they turn defence into attack, so quickly" 

Then I think of how Wednesday play, but I did remember Jack Hunt charging 60 yards at speed, only to pass it to someone who passed it back, and that player passed it back and within seconds we were back to where Jack Hunt started his run.

This passing it back and across the back, is just so boring and must have been drilled into the players. Long season ahead. 

 

Yes I spotted that Hunt run. He burst thru two midfielders and ran his lungs to empty, only to see the lads filter it back to Westwood.

 

There is a terribly defensive mantra running thriough the side. It can only come from the boss.

[Mid Wicket]

It is not happening once a game this, we get in good positions and don't gamble because Carlos wants us to keep possession. It is so frustrating 

[TheEnchanter]

Pace. Been writing in here ages ago that it's glaringly obvious we have absoloutely none.

[Owl 44]

12 minutes ago, cardiff05 said:

Watching the Hull v Forest game, and a forest player kept charging forward at pace, causing havoc, beating players with trickery and speed of foot and the commentator said "that's what Forest do so well, they turn defence into attack, so quickly" 

Then I think of how Wednesday play, but I did remember Jack Hunt charging 60 yards at speed, only to pass it to someone who passed it back, and that player passed it back and within seconds we were back to where Jack Hunt started his run.

This passing it back and across the back, is just so boring and must have been drilled into the players. Long season ahead. 

I think everyone in the ground noticed that cos it was met with a chorus of groans. Jack did it because he had nobody else to pass to cos none of them could keep up with him. I don't think they're told to play that way, it's just that none of them are fast enough. Hunt must have been shaking his head in disbelief when it went all the way back again. Sums Wednesday up to a tee.

[SiJ]

We have no pace. 

 

Makes me laugh (well actually cry a bit inside) when Westwood catches the ball and looks to distribute it quickly and then stalls and stalls and stalls as his colleagues amble up the pitch with the speed of a disabled donkey. 

 

 

[pazowl55]

3 minutes ago, SiJ said:

We have no pace. 

 

Makes me laugh (well actually cry a bit inside) when Westwood catches the ball and looks to distribute it quickly and then stalls and stalls and stalls as his colleagues amble up the pitch with the speed of a disabled donkey. 

 

 

Westwood's quick ball options are Forestieri and Joao and that's about it.

[Beholder]

It's one of my biggest bugbears with the coach..

 

He seems to dislike attacking on the break. 

 

So bizarre seeing the ball passed back to defense from a quick break. And very frustrating.  

 

We really do make it hard for ourselves and it's all down to how they are coached. 

[SiJ]

4 minutes ago, pazowl55 said:

Westwood's quick ball options are Forestieri and Joao and that's about it.

Pretty much. 

 

We are extremely slow and ponderous in most aspects of general play. 

 

The opposition are able to get their defensive organisation sorted and we struggle to break them down, instead having to resort to knocking the ball side to side between the defenders before someone has to hoof it. 

 

Tbf we didn't create some half decent chances yesterday, but I'm wondering if that was more to do with Barnsley not being the best defensive unit. 

[Southie_Owl]

It’s a bizarre one isn’t it, the world and his dog understand that modern football is not just about possession and organisation but also about pace 

 

even the great passing Barcelona sides, have players like Messi and Suarez who break away at speed to change defence into attack and cause the opposition defence problems - anyone who has watched a Barca game when they have rested these players will have seen they suddenly become pedestrian, slow and an ineffective side, because there’s no quick movement of players to help release the ball into spaces in the attacking third. It’s very easy to defend against sides without pace, as we are finding to our cost this season. 

 

In the summer a lot of us on here talked about how we needed to at least replace Wallace for a pacy winger, and maybe add a pacy striker too, and it hasn’t happened.

 

I’m not even looking forward to the January window now as I have no faith that Carlos understands what is needed to make us a better side 

[Southie_Owl]

And here’s another depressing stat... 

 

In the last 18 league/play off matches we have scored more than once in just 4 games

 

What was Chansiri saying about attacking entertaining football when he arrived?

 

 

 

[StudentOwl]

3 minutes ago, Southie_Owl said:

And here’s another depressing stat... 

 

In the last 18 league/play off matches we have scored more than once in just 4 games

 

What was Chansiri saying about attacking entertaining football when he arrived?

 

 

 

I remember posting on here about a month ago between Stuart Gray's side and goalscoring record vs Carlos'. Think it was something like we average 0.2 goals per game more with CC in charge than Gray. Now think about how much more money he's had to spend and the strikers he has at his disposal vs Stu.

Now start weeping. 

[Guest wilyfox]

2 minutes ago, StudentOwl said:

I remember posting on here about a month ago between Stuart Gray's side and goalscoring record vs Carlos'. Think it was something like we average 0.2 goals per game more with CC in charge than Gray. Now think about how much more money he's had to spend and the strikers he has at his disposal vs Stu.

Now start weeping. 

 

I know. It's very sad. DC clearly had a romantic idea of continental football, however, can't help but feel Gray would have been far more effective than Carlos, given the resources.

[No 2 is r nilsson]

32 minutes ago, Southie_Owl said:

It’s a bizarre one isn’t it, the world and his dog understand that modern football is not just about possession and organisation but also about pace 

 

even the great passing Barcelona sides, have players like Messi and Suarez who break away at speed to change defence into attack and cause the opposition defence problems - anyone who has watched a Barca game when they have rested these players will have seen they suddenly become pedestrian, slow and an ineffective side, because there’s no quick movement of players to help release the ball into spaces in the attacking third. It’s very easy to defend against sides without pace, as we are finding to our cost this season. 

 

In the summer a lot of us on here talked about how we needed to at least replace Wallace for a pacy winger, and maybe add a pacy striker too, and it hasn’t happened.

 

I’m not even looking forward to the January window now as I have no faith that Carlos understands what is needed to make us a better side 

Totally agree. I’ve supported Carlos because it’s important that we try to build a footballing side but I now wonder why someone who otherwise seems bright fails to understand this fundamental part of the tactic he is trying to coach. 

[SiJ]

1 hour ago, StudentOwl said:

I remember posting on here about a month ago between Stuart Gray's side and goalscoring record vs Carlos'. Think it was something like we average 0.2 goals per game more with CC in charge than Gray. Now think about how much more money he's had to spend and the strikers he has at his disposal vs Stu.

Now start weeping. 

The thing is I don't think we're good enough to play this "brand" of football. 

 

From what I can tell, we're trying to play a continental, possession-based game. In theory, we're going to keep things tight at the back and grind down the opposition with lots of passing etc. 

 

The problem is we are not good enough to do it. In fact, I think most English players period are not good enough to play such a style, let alone a bunch of Championship players. As a result, we just end up looking clueless and pedestrian. 

[Mr. Tom]

That Hunt run yesterday was a classic example of it being the law at S6 that everything must go through Bannan. From where I was sat yesterday, the attack broke down and ended up going backwards because the forwards always look to collect it deep, lay it off to BB then get forward while he holds up play with a couple of short 1-2s, then looks for a through ball when they're in position. Hunt gets down the line on a lung-busting counter, finds one of the forwards...and BB's not there yet so it goes back to near the centre circle.

 

Our strikers have GOT to work on driving forward and shooting from 18yds. About five times yesterday we were 2 on 2 around 20 yards out, and turned back on ourselves. We tried to walk it in the whole match, nobody has a go from outside the box except, ironically, Bazza himself. Which...y'know...hmm.

[0114]

One of the most frustrating parts of our game. It's like we are afraid of losing the ball, a couple times yesterday Reach found himself with a yard against the full back but go back to Pudil for him to cross from a deeper positions.

 

Even during the warm up they do a crossing routine where the 2 full backs cross from deep positions and the 2 strikers try to score, then the 2 wingers and then the 2 central players. The wingers should be the ones crossing!

[Owl 44]

42 minutes ago, Mr. Tom said:

That Hunt run yesterday was a classic example of it being the law at S6 that everything must go through Bannan. From where I was sat yesterday, the attack broke down and ended up going backwards because the forwards always look to collect it deep, lay it off to BB then get forward while he holds up play with a couple of short 1-2s, then looks for a through ball when they're in position. Hunt gets down the line on a lung-busting counter, finds one of the forwards...and BB's not there yet so it goes back to near the centre circle.

 

Our strikers have GOT to work on driving forward and shooting from 18yds. About five times yesterday we were 2 on 2 around 20 yards out, and turned back on ourselves. We tried to walk it in the whole match, nobody has a go from outside the box except, ironically, Bazza himself. Which...y'know...hmm.

Kieran Lee did ... and hit the bar with a spectacular shot. Proves the point - have a go. Got fed up yesterday with us trying to walk it in all the time. Lost count of the number of times the crowd shouted "shoot" at various players when they had the ball in a good position only for them to look for someone else to pass to. It's like they are either scared to shoot or they're trying to score the perfect goal. 

 

Back to your point about everything going through Bannan. I remember last season when Hutch ran the full length of the pitch to beat the goalie to the ball. It fell to Wallace about 35/40 yards out and the rest as they say isomething history. Think that's the exception rather than the norm though.

[pazowl55]

4 hours ago, SiJ said:

The thing is I don't think we're good enough to play this "brand" of football. 

 

From what I can tell, we're trying to play a continental, possession-based game. In theory, we're going to keep things tight at the back and grind down the opposition with lots of passing etc. 

 

The problem is we are not good enough to do it. In fact, I think most English players period are not good enough to play such a style, let alone a bunch of Championship players. As a result, we just end up looking clueless and pedestrian. 

It's like we are trying to play the old Italian style of defensive football. Problem it when they did it they had some of the best defenders in the world to do it with. Most weeks our team only contains one player who can properly defend. Tom Lees.

[barn_owl]

Always astounds and frustrates me how quickly we turn attack into defence!!

 

how many teams have come to hillsborough and have gone from defence to break away attack with 2 or 3 passes? Probably most I've seen this season use this tactic against us when all we do even at home is slow the game down and wait for their defence to get back and organised. Frustrates the hell out of me but I know we won't change the way we play.