Kosovo'sNo.9 Posted October 18, 2017 Share Posted October 18, 2017 (edited) I'll hold my hands up I was in the "Carlos In" group at the start of the season but unfortunately the results don't lie. People may say "be careful what you wish for" but I wish for us to get promoted and at the moment I just don't see it happening, we picked up 0 points against Birmingham, Bolton and at home to the pigs, games we really should have won on paper, you cannot lose against teams like that and expect to gain promotion. As said in the title this feels really strange, I never wanted Gary Megson or Stuart Gray to leave at all, I wanted Alan Irvine and Dave Jones out and I never felt bad thinking or saying that whereas I do feel that it is time for Carlos to go but I feel really guilty about it, Carlos has given us 2 of the best seasons we have had in recent years and he always comes across as an incredibly charming and likeable man but he has also shown that he can't handle big games and big occasions and if we are to replace him we need to do it now while the season is still early and the new manager has time to get a settled squad and to get a good run of results going. As for the new manager basically we need a manager who has proven experience of getting a team into the premiership so Big Sam, Lambert, Pardew or maybe even Harry Redknapp should all be in contention. For me the obvious choice is Big Sam, offer him £2 million for the season and if he get's us up then give him a £2 million bonus, if he got us up then that money would be peanuts compared to the premier league income. However that is all hypothetical at the moment, Carlos if you're going to go then thanks for the memories, if you're going to stay then please sort it out and fast. UTO!!! Edited October 18, 2017 by Kosovo'sNo.9 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brommers Posted October 18, 2017 Share Posted October 18, 2017 I feel the same about Carlos. Don't like sacking managers as this can be a bit knee-jerk but I do now believe we will only improve significantly if a new manager comes in. Obvioulsy there are no guarantees but I can't see things turning around sufficiently to launch a promotion push without a change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OwlofOliveGrove Posted October 18, 2017 Share Posted October 18, 2017 I also feel sort of guilty because CC feels like a mainstay of our success over the past couple of seasons. Got a feeling we'll beat Derby, then end up losing to Barnsley and the cycle of inconsistency will continue in which CC keeps his job without delivering what we all want....promotion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cookeh Posted October 18, 2017 Share Posted October 18, 2017 Know how you feel. Some folk seem to get very vitriolic when results aren't going our way, but I actually still like Carlos. I'd love to have a lazy afternoon in a pub with him just talking about football. But it does feel like we're going progressing. The team is very much the same as that first season, despite time and money having been spent on it since then, and we're not even reaching the same performance levels as that season. Our position of 4 points off the playoffs is deceiving due to the 9 points dropped from the games Kos mentioned, other teams will take at least 6 points from those. We need something to change; we need to change our mentality, possibly the system and we need to get more from the talent that we have. The only way I see that happening is with a new manager. When the time comes, I'll wish Carlos well, he tried and he got us really close. A shame that he couldn't get us over the line, but doesn't devalue the things that he did do. After 17 years of ignominy, our record under him lets us hold our heads up a higher again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
@owlstalk Posted October 18, 2017 Share Posted October 18, 2017 I like Carlos He's a good person, professional, charismatic and has always finished the season in a higher position than the season before. He's just lost his way with his style and tactics and team selection I don't want him gone - I just want him to get back to where he was (although his interviews suggest he doens't accept that there is a difference in how his team plays now vs how it did when he first arrived) Owlstalk Shop Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Quist Posted October 18, 2017 Share Posted October 18, 2017 20 minutes ago, @owlstalk said: I like Carlos He's a good person, professional, charismatic and has always finished the season in a higher position than the season before. He's just lost his way with his style and tactics and team selection I don't want him gone - I just want him to get back to where he was (although his interviews suggest he doens't accept that there is a difference in how his team plays now vs how it did when he first arrived) I do not think we have changed our style much from when he came we have an attacking shape and defensive shape. What has changed is other teams have adapted to our style of play, towards end of first season our attacking shape was sussed and this year it appears our defensive shape has also been sussed out. The lack of variation suggests we have exhausted the coaches tactical knowledge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcmigo Posted October 18, 2017 Share Posted October 18, 2017 The only difference between this season and last season is a goalkeeper playing below his usual standards as he was carrying an injury, and a defence which has been a shambles since Loovens has been out of the team. That way of playing was successful last season - we were a penalty shoot out from being in the play off final remember. Only 2 mistakes have been made: 1. Playing Westwood when he was not fit, and not having a reserve goalie ready for first team football 2. The centre back acquisition of Van Aken, who will be a good player in the long term, but has footwork issues that mean he isn't first team ready. A steadier and older centre back should have come in alongside Van Aken, or even at a push Semedo retained for centre back cover duties whilst the work is done with Van Aken on the training pitch. I know fans want to see us play like Newcastle under Keegan - we would need an entirely new squad to do that. With the squad we have, our best chance of winning is starting with clean sheets. That needs to be the focus. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
33 Posted October 18, 2017 Share Posted October 18, 2017 Like Carlos but seems a shame that he isn't for changing Only one result if that is the case Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SiJ Posted October 18, 2017 Share Posted October 18, 2017 The opening post pretty much echoes my sentiments. Like Carlos a lot and was willing him to prove the doubters and critics wrong this season...but it just isn't happening. The writing is on the wall and I can't see him turning this around. A likable bloke and a decent coach, who has given us two very good seasons (bar the finishes), but things in football inevitably run their course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toppOwl Posted October 18, 2017 Share Posted October 18, 2017 50 minutes ago, Kosovo'sNo.9 said: I'll hold my hands up I was in the "Carlos In" group at the start of the season but unfortunately the results don't lie. People may say "be careful what you wish for" but I wish for us to get promoted and at the moment I just don't see it happening, we picked up 0 points against Birmingham, Bolton and at home to the pigs, games we really should have won on paper, you cannot lose against teams like that and expect to gain promotion. As said in the title this feels really strange, I never wanted Gary Megson or Stuart Gray to leave at all, I wanted Alan Irvine and Dave Jones out and I never felt bad thinking or saying that whereas I do feel that it is time for Carlos to go but I feel really guilty about it, Carlos has given us 2 of the best seasons we have had in recent years and he always comes across as an incredibly charming and likeable man but he has also shown that he can't handle big games and big occasions and if we are to replace him we need to do it now while the season is still early and the new manager has time to get a settled squad and to get a good run of results going. As for the new manager basically we need a manager who has proven experience of getting a team into the premiership so Big Sam, Lambert, Pardew or maybe even Harry Redknapp should all be in contention. For me the obvious choice is Big Sam, offer him £2 million for the season and if he get's us up then give him a £2 million bonus, if he got us up then that money would be peanuts compared to the premier league income. However that is all hypothetical at the moment, Carlos if you're going to go then thanks for the memories, if you're going to stay then please sort it out and fast. UTO!!! My feelings were exactly the same with the ex-managers that you mention, I really hope CC can turn it around but at the moment its not looking likely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcmigo Posted October 18, 2017 Share Posted October 18, 2017 I think we will turn this around, I really do. We need a run of 3 or 4 tight wins with clean sheets. We have done it before, with key players coming back we can do it again. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Tom Posted October 18, 2017 Share Posted October 18, 2017 (edited) 47 minutes ago, @owlstalk said: I like Carlos He's a good person, professional, charismatic and has always finished the season in a higher position than the season before. He's just lost his way with his style and tactics and team selection I don't want him gone - I just want him to get back to where he was (although his interviews suggest he doens't accept that there is a difference in how his team plays now vs how it did when he first arrived) That, for me, is what's really causing all the alarm, and susequent animosity/aggression. It's simply impossible to understand how he could possibly claim it's true. And, faced with behaviour that seems quite so bonkers, sadly a lot of people get worried and then quickly quite angry. I distance myself from those folk in general, but I'd be lying if I said I didn't at least understand it a little bit. If only he'd been a bit more forthright about all that, I honestly don't think the 'out' bus (which, full disclosure or whatever, I'm not yet fully on board either) would be parked nearly as close to the main gates as it is. It's doubly weird as he's so open, frank and vocal about all other aspects of our tactical game. Speaking so openly about stuff that ususally stays on the training ground, but then being so guarded about the very public aspects of what happens on the pitch - to the point of literally denying the bleeding obvious - is making him look...well, kinda crazy, if I'm honest. Carlos, mate...whyyyyy? Edited October 18, 2017 by Mr. Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
owlmanc Posted October 18, 2017 Share Posted October 18, 2017 He's had 2 and a half seasons... How much of a chance did Stuart Gray get given? Yeah it's not nice being sacked BUT he has had a fair crack of the whip and plenty to spend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Snooty Posted October 18, 2017 Share Posted October 18, 2017 27 minutes ago, mcmigo said: I think we will turn this around, I really do. We need a run of 3 or 4 tight wins with clean sheets. We have done it before, with key players coming back we can do it again. Really hope you're right. There's a stagnation in there though. I hope they can shake themselves out of it. I really do...but sometimes, the only way is to have a fresh voice. Anyway. ..hopefully a good result at Derby and go from there Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sweetsheri Posted October 18, 2017 Share Posted October 18, 2017 I'm normally quite a reserved character and not one for flouncing at games but i have to say i completely lost it at the end of the game saturday. Whether i was still wound up from the non penalty decision i'm not sure but i've never been as livid as that after a football match. I feel a bit ashamed tbh because it's just a football match but enough is enough. I've already decided i won't be splashing another £1000 on 2 season tickets next year. First time in 12 years since the lad was 5. 12 years of 200 mile round trips in the vain hope we might turn something round. it's the hope that finally kills you! If I'm going to feel as angry as that after a football match then it's time to walk away for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sheriwozgod Posted October 18, 2017 Share Posted October 18, 2017 1 hour ago, @owlstalk said: I like Carlos He's a good person, professional, charismatic and has always finished the season in a higher position than the season before. He's just lost his way with his style and tactics and team selection I don't want him gone - I just want him to get back to where he was (although his interviews suggest he doens't accept that there is a difference in how his team plays now vs how it did when he first arrived) This in a nutshell................the blind refusal to admit what is glaringly obvious, and the folly of repeating the same mistakes over and over and over........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gnarwolf Posted October 18, 2017 Share Posted October 18, 2017 Agree with a lot of the OP, I'm 22 and started going to matches in 01/02 and got my first season ticket for the 02/03 season so as you may be able to work out, I've only ever seen us when we've been bobbar, right up until when CC took over, I loved him from the moment he came to the club and his first and second seasons were incredible to me (albeit with the poor finishes). I was firmly in the "Carlos in" camp after last season, however, I thought if he was to be moved on it should've been after the Huddersfield game, he wasn't and now we're in this situation where I think it would be best for him to go, but it's not like when Dave Jones was sacked when I was vocal about wanting him to go, it feels like a weird sort of betrayal on my part even though it's obviously not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Hunt Posted October 18, 2017 Share Posted October 18, 2017 1 hour ago, mcmigo said: The only difference between this season and last season is a goalkeeper playing below his usual standards as he was carrying an injury, and a defence which has been a shambles since Loovens has been out of the team. That way of playing was successful last season - we were a penalty shoot out from being in the play off final remember. Only 2 mistakes have been made: 1. Playing Westwood when he was not fit, and not having a reserve goalie ready for first team football 2. The centre back acquisition of Van Aken, who will be a good player in the long term, but has footwork issues that mean he isn't first team ready. A steadier and older centre back should have come in alongside Van Aken, or even at a push Semedo retained for centre back cover duties whilst the work is done with Van Aken on the training pitch. I know fans want to see us play like Newcastle under Keegan - we would need an entirely new squad to do that. With the squad we have, our best chance of winning is starting with clean sheets. That needs to be the focus. The frightening thing about this post is that most new signings we have made are not either good enough to make an impact or not ready The players are too comfortable and not many places are in jeopardy of someone bursting through and grabbing a spot . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robowl4life Posted October 18, 2017 Share Posted October 18, 2017 1 hour ago, Quist said: I do not think we have changed our style much from when he came we have an attacking shape and defensive shape. What has changed is other teams have adapted to our style of play, towards end of first season our attacking shape was sussed and this year it appears our defensive shape has also been sussed out. The lack of variation suggests we have exhausted the coaches tactical knowledge. Nail on the head. Unfortunately as we've been sussed out it appears his stubbornness is his downfall for not changing tactics etc which leads to poor management. If he doesn't see we've been sussed out then it again proves he's a one trick poney and that shows by looking proving at his CV wherever he's been. Maybe it is stubbornness but either way it all leads down to poor management. What's the definition of insanity again? Doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frazzlebeak Posted October 18, 2017 Share Posted October 18, 2017 3 hours ago, Quist said: I do not think we have changed our style much from when he came we have an attacking shape and defensive shape. What has changed is other teams have adapted to our style of play, towards end of first season our attacking shape was sussed and this year it appears our defensive shape has also been sussed out. The lack of variation suggests we have exhausted the coaches tactical knowledge. Bingo! We have a winner Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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