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Should our next manager be BAME/LGBT?


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8 minutes ago, Big Ron's Sovereign said:

How many white English managers in the PL? How many white English get jobs at the elite clubs? 

 

What a way to complete miss the point.  Not enough Brit managers get a chance in the PL for sure but you'd only have an argument if those who have managed in the PL were divided by ethnicity roughly into the same proportions as those who have played the game, which they ain't.

 

Not difficult is it?

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11 minutes ago, beloved_aunt said:

 

What a way to complete miss the point.  Not enough Brit managers get a chance in the PL for sure but you'd only have an argument if those who have managed in the PL were divided by ethnicity roughly into the same proportions as those who have played the game, which they ain't.

 

Not difficult is it?

 

 

  Have you thought they may not want managers jobs ? 

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10 minutes ago, beloved_aunt said:

 

What a way to complete miss the point.  Not enough Brit managers get a chance in the PL for sure but you'd only have an argument if those who have managed in the PL were divided by ethnicity roughly into the same proportions as those who have played the game, which they ain't.

 

Not difficult is it?

 

I'm not missing the point at all, I'm just throwing that in because of the sheer stupidity of a certain posters view of white privilege. 

i honestly do not look at any persons skin colour/ heritage and treat them any differently. The BAME/ LBGT and Rooney rule does exactly the opposite.

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3 minutes ago, cross owl said:

 

 

  Have you thought they may not want managers jobs ? 

 

It would be a huge, bizarre, statistical anomloie requiring a lot of investigation and explanation if the % of black players who wanted to become managers/coaches after retirement was significantly different the % of white players.  That would make no sense.

 

Have you ever thought that after centuries of being treated as inferior citizens on the basis of your skin colour a black person might not have the ingrained confidence to go for a job they want in the first place?

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4 minutes ago, Big Ron's Sovereign said:

 

I'm not missing the point at all, I'm just throwing that in because of the sheer stupidity of a certain posters view of white privilege. 

i honestly do not look at any persons skin colour/ heritage and treat them any differently. The BAME/ LBGT and Rooney rule does exactly the opposite.

 

We're not aware of our unconscious biases, that's why they're unconscious. Most boards have a set idea of what a football manager looks like which is why they keep hiring failures time and again and ignoring huge swathes of potential coaching talent (half the whole human race, those ones without penises, just for a kick off) but if you asked them they would say they weren't biased or prejudiced and were treating all candidates the same.

 

Rooney rule simply forces you out of your comfort zone to interview some different sorts of people and many America teams found this was really beneficial.

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2 minutes ago, Big Ron's Sovereign said:

 

I'm not missing the point at all, I'm just throwing that in because of the sheer stupidity of a certain posters view of white privilege. 

i honestly do not look at any persons skin colour/ heritage and treat them any differently. The BAME/ LBGT and Rooney rule does exactly the opposite.

The Rooney Rule isn’t for enlightened people like yoursel then; it’s for sports coach recruiters that that have (maybe purely innocent) misconceptions about non-white, non-heterosexual or female people. 

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1 minute ago, beloved_aunt said:

 

It would be a huge, bizarre, statistical anomloie requiring a lot of investigation and explanation if the % of black players who wanted to become managers/coaches after retirement was significantly different the % of white players.  That would make no sense.

 

Have you ever thought that after centuries of being treated as inferior citizens on the basis of your skin colour a black person might not have the ingrained confidence to go for a job they want in the first place?

 

Or it could be the percentage of ex white players is higher than ex-black players?

 

Yet another person who is using colour to pick managers. Here's an idea, maybe the Chairmem of football clubs were just picking the best person for the job and weren't using any colour prejudice one way or the other to choose? 

 

 

 

When somebosy is actively promoting BAME/ LGBT/ ROONEY RULE they are using ignorance themselves by excluding people that don't fall into these groups.

 

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3 minutes ago, Big Ron's Sovereign said:

 

Or it could be the percentage of ex white players is higher than ex-black players?

 

Yet another person who is using colour to pick managers. Here's an idea, maybe the Chairmem of football clubs were just picking the best person for the job and weren't using any colour prejudice one way or the other to choose? 

 

 

 

When somebosy is actively promoting BAME/ LGBT/ ROONEY RULE they are using ignorance themselves by excluding people that don't fall into these groups.

 

 

Two things are evident from this post:

 

1) You don't understand maths - yes the % of ex white players is great than ex white players but don't to the overwhelming extent and proportion by which they dominate the managerial field

2) You don't understand the Rooney Rule - whereby a club just has to interview one more person before making its decision, through which it might get a different perspective, so no ignoring of anyone

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5 minutes ago, beloved_aunt said:

 

It would be a huge, bizarre, statistical anomloie requiring a lot of investigation and explanation if the % of black players who wanted to become managers/coaches after retirement was significantly different the % of white players.  That would make no sense.

 

Have you ever thought that after centuries of being treated as inferior citizens on the basis of your skin colour a black person might not have the ingrained confidence to go for a job they want in the first place?

 

 

  No confidence , so a top player earning millions , adored by hundreds of thousands , has his name chanted weekly has no confidence . So you retire at 35 a multi millionaire , going to all four corners of the planet at will , what they should really want is the hassle , stress , and job insecurity of a managers job . Who of every crop of retired premiershio players of all colours and nationalities go into managing ? What centuries have they been treated as inferior ? Certain small parts of thr globe in the mid 19th and early 20th century out of thousands of years . 

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2 minutes ago, Big Ron's Sovereign said:

 

Or it could be the percentage of ex white players is higher than ex-black players?

 

Yet another person who is using colour to pick managers. Here's an idea, maybe the Chairmem of football clubs were just picking the best person for the job and weren't using any colour prejudice one way or the other to choose? 

 

 

 

When somebosy is actively promoting BAME/ LGBT/ ROONEY RULE they are using ignorance themselves by excluding people that don't fall into these groups.

 

It’s an interesting theory but I don’t know how that would stack up against appointments of first time football managers. There’s no way to judge their true ability but the vast majority are white. 

 

I’m interested by this phenomenon. I would always want Wednesday to have the best manager and not appoint based on tokenism but I believe that the Rooney rule isn’t true tokenism - it always allows you to appoint the best coach irrespective of race, gender, ethnicity and sexuality. 

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16 minutes ago, Big Ron's Sovereign said:

 

I'm not missing the point at all, I'm just throwing that in because of the sheer stupidity of a certain posters view of white privilege. 

i honestly do not look at any persons skin colour/ heritage and treat them any differently. The BAME/ LBGT and Rooney rule does exactly the opposite.

 

I'm a white, middle class, protestant, British, hetrosexual male.  And I'm gonna go out on a limb and guess you might be too.

Now in my life I've never had to doubt what I could achieve and where my limits are because almost all of the people who have fulfilled the following influential roles in society (and many many others besides) - Prime Minister, Chancellor, Director General of the BBC, Governor of the Bank of England, Manager of the England National Team, Editor of the Times Newspaper, Archbishop of Canterbury - are exactly like me, in fact on any rare ocassion they haven't been its been a massive noteworthy topic of conversation.

 

So, don't you think for people who aren't all of these things it might be reasonable to have a different opinion of how fairly and unbiasedly the system works? No?

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3 minutes ago, beloved_aunt said:

 

Two things are evident from this post:

 

1) You don't understand maths - yes the % of ex white players is great than ex white players but don't to the overwhelming extent and proportion by which they dominate the managerial field

2) You don't understand the Rooney Rule - whereby a club just has to interview one more person before making its decision, through which it might get a different perspective, so no ignoring of anyone

 

I'm pretty good at maths actually, mayb wits because I dint really look into a persons skin colour and haven't looked into any percentages as it's pointless. Putting folk into groups purely on their skin colour is going against what we should be doing. Aren't we all equal?

 

The Rooney Rule. The basic facts are a Chairman has a rough idea who they want, candidates get selected, then when they look through it, there's no "black" applicant so they have to pick one to satisfy the rule. So the token black player turns up, he's not what the wanted anyway (ability wise not colour) but that person has had a wasted time because of the rule...

 

 

 

Anyway iI've arrived at Pride Park, enjoy the game.

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What about people with highly lucrative jobs you actially see like newscasters , actors on tv , people on panel shows , local mp's , people that own businesses you visit , have had a fair mix for decades . Just because faceless people in high paid boys club jobs are white doesn't mean that you have nothing to aim for . 

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3 hours ago, Big Ron's Sovereign said:

 

I've seen that video. If you take your blinkers off you will see that it has nothing to do with the colour of the skin. The majority of the questions relate to a family unit, how that can only be for black people is just bizarre.

 

I'll put forward 3 people and want you to use the same questions as the video

 

Att Chansiri

Jaden Smith (son of Will) 

Steven Williams ( son of Phil) Phil is white in his 40's, lives on the Manor and been on benefits since losing his job 4yrs ago. 

 

 

 

Not sure why you keep thinking this is about individuals.

 

Its like trying to debate with a tin of spam.

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