Big Ron's Sovereign Posted October 20, 2017 Share Posted October 20, 2017 7 hours ago, McRightSide said: Its proven. Educate yourself. Diversity goes beyond skin colour too you know. 43 minutes ago, McRightSide said: Ok so let's just make stuff up now 18 hours ago, McRightSide said: No. See my reply to PompeyOwl I always find it interesting how angrymad white people get when you dare to suggest they are generally more fortunate than others. 16 hours ago, McRightSide said: I don't think you really get into a debate on the number of times white people have missed out on this vs the amount of times black people have. I was very clear that the person who gets a job should be the best person for it. But what you're not appreciating is that it's proven the more diverse and organization is, the better they perform because they are more creative. Who's to say hiring another a minority candidate won't unlock creativity that was otherwise not possible. The point of these programmes is to remove barriers and sometimes the issue needs to be forced with quotas - its down to the hiring company to find minority candidates that stack up...and there isn't enough for them to choose from. But if you don't grant people the opportunities in the first place sometimes with drastic action, then your never going to make a significant change. I'm not making anything up, the only person in this thread that has used any discrimination is yourself. A sweeping statement that white people are more privileged is astounding, Yes some are, but some aren't. You cannot make statements such as that, you would not get away with it against a person who is black, so why is it acceptable against a person who is white? By openly wanting certain sections of people you are discriminating against others. Nobody is against a person of colour getting any job, they just want the best person, colour is not the issue but you're making it an issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fatzooma Posted October 20, 2017 Share Posted October 20, 2017 18 hours ago, Not Jon Newsome said: Too right, I work for a company that has this policy. What company? Might as well get it off you’re chest if it doesn’t matter or isn’t an issue? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fatzooma Posted October 20, 2017 Share Posted October 20, 2017 1 hour ago, dobbo said: All you lefties that drone on about black, white, mixed race, gay, trans blah blah bloody blah are part of the 'problem'. Who the hell cares? I don't care who people want to f*ck and I don't care what colour someone's skin is, neither do 99% of the population FACT Lefties....I bet half of you Righties wouldn’t be spouting your opinions in public or in your place of work? Unless of course you work with like minded Brex City Rollers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sMacLean Posted October 20, 2017 Share Posted October 20, 2017 Couldn't care less.Equality of opportunity not outcome always been my belief.As long as it's a level playing field that's all i ever ask. Lot of people are in actual fact totally useless at their jobs but like to try to distort that by claiming they were wronged. Not sure how getting a job through non-performance reasons does anything to forward the cause of equality/diversity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Ron's Sovereign Posted October 20, 2017 Share Posted October 20, 2017 On 18/10/2017 at 23:40, fatzooma said: I ain’t upset pal and not arsed who manages us, but some of the comments are a bit ill thought out. football needs dragging out of the dark ages. I went saturday and heard some right rubbish coming out of ‘our’ so called fans mouths. Racist, homophobic nonsense that isn’t part n parcel of the modern game, but just a sad reflection of society. I don’t mind a debate as to the involvement of people of a different orientation having some involvement in football. Whether as manager or commercial etc etc..And ok, the right people should get the job but it should still mean people that to some don’t fit the norm, aren’t overlooked. It’s a big world and not necessarily a white, heterosexual one. Interesting you should say that when you also post this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halifax Owls Posted October 20, 2017 Share Posted October 20, 2017 20 minutes ago, fatzooma said: Lefties....I bet half of you Righties wouldn’t be spouting your opinions in public or in your place of work? Unless of course you work with like minded Brex City Rollers Ahh Marxisms finest contribution to the 20th century, restricting speech and thought through political correctness. Fascinating subject this, much better than shirts, cakes and anniversary watches. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fatzooma Posted October 20, 2017 Share Posted October 20, 2017 1 hour ago, Big Ron's Sovereign said: Interesting you should say that when you also post this Ha ha...still makes me laugh at how strange our fans look....no mention of culture or diversity though?....and all white?!? Maybe I am a bigot? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fatzooma Posted October 20, 2017 Share Posted October 20, 2017 Again...I bet it’s not a view point that most of you righties would happily share in public.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pompeyowl Posted October 20, 2017 Share Posted October 20, 2017 37 minutes ago, fatzooma said: Ha ha...still makes me laugh at how strange our fans look....no mention of culture or diversity though?....and all white?!? Maybe I am a bigot? What's to say that a large percentage of those in that picture are not gay, disabled, foreign, religious or trans gender? Who are we to assume that each and every person there is straight, christian / atheist and British? More to the point, who cares? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cross owl Posted October 20, 2017 Share Posted October 20, 2017 (edited) 1 hour ago, fatzooma said: Again...I bet it’s not a view point that most of you righties would happily share in public.. So most people wouldn't say that no matter someone's heritage or proclivities it doesn't matter to them or that the problem lies with the social engineers who have decided it's their way or it's illegal . Or maybe Morgan Freeman is a disgusting anti liberal fascist for daring to say it's the fault of the left who are perpetuating a problem . Just because the hypersensitive liberals have infected our lives and made sure that their totalitarian vision is the only way and any wavering is to be punished doesn't mean that they are in any way shape or form correct . And as for brex city rollers, what does that even mean . Does it mean that anyone who believes that an unelected state can't work well for everyone is in fact simply a fascist homophobe . If so that's quite a generalisation insulting people who you believe do the same to others . Edited October 20, 2017 by cross owl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dobbo Posted October 20, 2017 Share Posted October 20, 2017 6 hours ago, fatzooma said: Lefties....I bet half of you Righties wouldn’t be spouting your opinions in public or in your place of work? Unless of course you work with like minded Brex City Rollers What an absolutely tragic individual you are, so confused. Who are the ones labelling and making assumptions here? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McRightSide Posted October 21, 2017 Share Posted October 21, 2017 (edited) 9 hours ago, clifford said: As a black guy who also is responsible for recruiting employees for the NHS I agree with this post although I am not naive enough to think racism/ homophobia doesn’t exist. My only concern when looking to employ people is to select the person who I think best suits the role. Everything else is secondary. In terms of the people I have employed I haven’t alway got right but it had nothing to do with their race, ethnicity or sexual orientation. i think most reasonable human beings would agree with me. I do the same job Clifford, not for the NHS though. If you ignore the people who put words in others mouth you would see that I also believe the best person for the job should get the job - but the important part is that we remove barriers to make sure everyone has the same opportunity to get that job. But then it's hard to debate with people who refuse to accept that - historically -black people have had a tougher time than white people. Im really lucky to get to work with some of the worlds brightest people when it comes to this topic, and I'm still learning about it. It's quite a step change to come home and see someone complaining about being called ignorant yet refusing to watch a video that offers an explanation to an alternate view Edited October 21, 2017 by McRightSide Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halifax Owls Posted October 21, 2017 Share Posted October 21, 2017 Historically speaking like, my Great Grandfather was with the Bradford Pals on the Somme in 16 then my Grandfather a generation later found himself fighting in the Greek campaign towards the end of WW2. No doubt generations before them would have been either up a chimney or in the mills doing a 10 hour shift if they were lucky enough to get past the age of 11. I guess that was their white privilege. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shandypants Posted October 21, 2017 Share Posted October 21, 2017 I don’t think we should positively discriminate in our appointment. We should have a positive discrimination element to our first cut of candidates to interview. That’s what the Rooney rule states. I agree with that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IstillhateSteveBould Posted October 21, 2017 Share Posted October 21, 2017 7 hours ago, McRightSide said: I do the same job Clifford, not for the NHS though. If you ignore the people who put words in others mouth you would see that I also believe the best person for the job should get the job - but the important part is that we remove barriers to make sure everyone has the same opportunity to get that job. But then it's hard to debate with people who refuse to accept that - historically -black people have had a tougher time than white people. Im really lucky to get to work with some of the worlds brightest people when it comes to this topic, and I'm still learning about it. It's quite a step change to come home and see someone complaining about being called ignorant yet refusing to watch a video that offers an explanation to an alternate view You mean those who are excellent at manipulating gullible people like yourself? Those who like to label and catergorise people. Those who actually cause more division, because they're either too stupid to realise their own hypocrisy or they have a much darker agenda. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cross owl Posted October 21, 2017 Share Posted October 21, 2017 8 hours ago, McRightSide said: I do the same job Clifford, not for the NHS though. If you ignore the people who put words in others mouth you would see that I also believe the best person for the job should get the job - but the important part is that we remove barriers to make sure everyone has the same opportunity to get that job. But then it's hard to debate with people who refuse to accept that - historically -black people have had a tougher time than white people. Im really lucky to get to work with some of the worlds brightest people when it comes to this topic, and I'm still learning about it. It's quite a step change to come home and see someone complaining about being called ignorant yet refusing to watch a video that offers an explanation to an alternate view No one's saying that black people haven't had a tough time in Britain decades ago , but Britain isn't America , we had no buses , shops and everything else they weren't allowed to use , but to positively discriminate is not what is needed . My uncle was from Jamaica, he came over in 1953 and we were so horrible to him that he got a job in the steel industry married my auntie , set up home and only went back to Jamaica for a holiday . He had six children and as they are all mixed race when all this positive discrimination and how unless you are far left you are a racist stuff became the norm, I asked them if they had any hassle getting jobs or at school . They went to school in the sixties to the early eighties . They all said they had no problems in either . So either my cousins are lying , they are the luckiest people on earth or the problem has been blown out of all proportion . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beloved_aunt Posted October 21, 2017 Share Posted October 21, 2017 (edited) On 18/10/2017 at 09:41, David1867 said: Just a thought, should we be looking to lead the way with equality in football? We we have never had a first team coach or manager from the BAME or LGBT community now is the time to change this. Below are 3 BAME to throw into the mix. Sol Campbell, a risk but has played at the highest level and wants to manage. Hope Powell, international experience, currently in charge at Brighton women's so will have tapped into Chris Hutons knowledge. Kiatisuk Senamuang, record goal scorer for Thailand so obviously a legend in his own country plus has decent managerial experience in his own right. I love your sentiment. But I think you're missing the point. We should appoint the best person for the job, but the problem is that there is so much received wisdom and unconcious bias in football boardrooms that often they don't do this. Chairmen and boards have a very set idea of what a football manager "looks like" and so keeping giving jobs over and over again to failures who fit the profile - eg Bryan Robson, Dave Jones. If you drop these unconcious biases you might well find a gem of a manager that everyone else has overlooked and get an advantage through that. That's why I like the Rooney Rule in NFL. It doesn't force anyone to appoint black coaches but means you have to interview at least one BAME candidate for every job. Teams often found when doing this that the BAME guy they were interviewing was really good and they'd never have even spoken to them otherwise. This is fairer, and in the long term more effective, than quotas or appointing someone purely for their background. Edited October 21, 2017 by beloved_aunt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beloved_aunt Posted October 21, 2017 Share Posted October 21, 2017 Wracking my brains and can only think of a maximum of five black or mixed raced managers in the whole of PL history: Tigana, Ince, Houghton + Connor and Giggs as caretakers When you think of how many fantastic black and BAME players have graced the league in that time it is surely a huge waste of talent, experience, knowledge and know-how that so few of these have the chance to become top coaches and managers in the league? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Ron's Sovereign Posted October 21, 2017 Share Posted October 21, 2017 9 hours ago, McRightSide said: I do the same job Clifford, not for the NHS though. If you ignore the people who put words in others mouth you would see that I also believe the best person for the job should get the job - but the important part is that we remove barriers to make sure everyone has the same opportunity to get that job. But then it's hard to debate with people who refuse to accept that - historically -black people have had a tougher time than white people. Im really lucky to get to work with some of the worlds brightest people when it comes to this topic, and I'm still learning about it. It's quite a step change to come home and see someone complaining about being called ignorant yet refusing to watch a video that offers an explanation to an alternate view I've seen that video. If you take your blinkers off you will see that it has nothing to do with the colour of the skin. The majority of the questions relate to a family unit, how that can only be for black people is just bizarre. I'll put forward 3 people and want you to use the same questions as the video Att Chansiri Jaden Smith (son of Will) Steven Williams ( son of Phil) Phil is white in his 40's, lives on the Manor and been on benefits since losing his job 4yrs ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Ron's Sovereign Posted October 21, 2017 Share Posted October 21, 2017 4 minutes ago, beloved_aunt said: Wracking my brains and can only think of a maximum of five black or mixed raced managers in the whole of PL history: Tigana, Ince, Houghton + Connor and Giggs as caretakers When you think of how many fantastic black and BAME players have graced the league in that time it is surely a huge waste of talent, experience, knowledge and know-how that so few of these have the chance to become top coaches and managers in the league? How many white English managers in the PL? How many white English get jobs at the elite clubs? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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