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Songs like 'Mind the gap' and 'The city is ours" we won't be hearing them for awhile now. I am fed up of seeing comments about how good we are. Sadly we were found out last year as lacking pace. I was embarrassed today. I work with Leeds fans so am dreading next week.

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4 hours ago, sheffield_dave said:

Given myself a bit of time to calm down and compose some non-knee jerk reactions on today's game.

 

So here goes.

 

That was an absolute f*cking disgrace. An embarrassing shambles.

 

I can't remember the last time a Wednesday side played that badly. The absolute BASICS of football looked utterly beyond us. Poor first touches all over the park, the passing was all over the place, we persisted with the same balls into the same areas that didn't work all afternoon. Defensively we were unfathomably bad. Infact I don't think I've ever seen anything like it. It was.. unbelievable. I'm genuinely struggling to put down the right words for how bad that performance was. 

 

Utter garbage. An inspid, disgusting performance that should have wider consequences. All these little niggly complaints like our disastrous commercial department or our exploitive rip off ticketing policy become quite a lot harder to stomach when the product served up on the pitch is as offensively insulting as it was today. 

 

Those wider consequences should start with the manager. His press conference midweek was worrying and you could see the differences between the two sides in the first 10 seconds. This is a man who has CONSISTENTLY set us up wrong for the big matches. Our record under Carlos of getting results against the best sides, in the biggest games, when we've needed to put in a performance - isn't good enough. There are gaping wide holes in this team and in this squad that haven't been addressed over subsequent years and transfer windows. This man has spent MILLIONS on a second division side that still doesn't know how to set up against more determined opposition, still can't win or retain possession well enough in the middle of the park, still lacks pace, still lacks options off the bench, still can't put games away despite the scoring pedigree assembled upfront..

 

It's absolutely pathetic. It really is. That we sit back and accept this garbage because he drops the odd humerous quote and cried at Wembley is becoming a running joke. We are going NOWHERE under this manager. 

 

And I'm absolutely SICK to the back teeth of hearing "but who else is out there!?", as if there isn't a football manager alive who could set a side out for a derby game or achieve more with the likes of Rhodes and Hooper upfront. How about we roll the dice and see where it lands instead of settling for this pitiful mediocrity and this man who - ultimately - has twice and is still continuing to fail the task asked of him.

 

Oh and the best thing? All that applies to today's game with NO mention or acknowledgment of the opposition.

 

No mention that a man we cast off years ago and has spent his career in League One since made us look like absolute fools. THEE dopiest looking motherf*cker to ever play for either team ran absolute rings around us.

 

Or that a local teenager who has been given a chance by his club tore us to f*cking pieces while a similar player on our books is.. well who knows the f*ck where. Probably doing the best for his career and plotting a move elsewhere. 

 

Seeing our transfer business fail to address concerns after Wembley was worrying. Watching the football last year was tedious. Our surrender to Huddersfield was frustrating. Today was a f*cking catastrophe.

 

Garbage. Carlos out. 

Hear hear brother owl. Carlos......please roger OFF

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4 hours ago, sheffield_dave said:

Given myself a bit of time to calm down and compose some non-knee jerk reactions on today's game.

 

So here goes.

 

That was an absolute f*cking disgrace. An embarrassing shambles.

 

I can't remember the last time a Wednesday side played that badly. The absolute BASICS of football looked utterly beyond us. Poor first touches all over the park, the passing was all over the place, we persisted with the same balls into the same areas that didn't work all afternoon. Defensively we were unfathomably bad. Infact I don't think I've ever seen anything like it. It was.. unbelievable. I'm genuinely struggling to put down the right words for how bad that performance was. 

 

Utter garbage. An inspid, disgusting performance that should have wider consequences. All these little niggly complaints like our disastrous commercial department or our exploitive rip off ticketing policy become quite a lot harder to stomach when the product served up on the pitch is as offensively insulting as it was today. 

 

Those wider consequences should start with the manager. His press conference midweek was worrying and you could see the differences between the two sides in the first 10 seconds. This is a man who has CONSISTENTLY set us up wrong for the big matches. Our record under Carlos of getting results against the best sides, in the biggest games, when we've needed to put in a performance - isn't good enough. There are gaping wide holes in this team and in this squad that haven't been addressed over subsequent years and transfer windows. This man has spent MILLIONS on a second division side that still doesn't know how to set up against more determined opposition, still can't win or retain possession well enough in the middle of the park, still lacks pace, still lacks options off the bench, still can't put games away despite the scoring pedigree assembled upfront..

 

It's absolutely pathetic. It really is. That we sit back and accept this garbage because he drops the odd humerous quote and cried at Wembley is becoming a running joke. We are going NOWHERE under this manager. 

 

And I'm absolutely SICK to the back teeth of hearing "but who else is out there!?", as if there isn't a football manager alive who could set a side out for a derby game or achieve more with the likes of Rhodes and Hooper upfront. How about we roll the dice and see where it lands instead of settling for this pitiful mediocrity and this man who - ultimately - has twice and is still continuing to fail the task asked of him.

 

Oh and the best thing? All that applies to today's game with NO mention or acknowledgment of the opposition.

 

No mention that a man we cast off years ago and has spent his career in League One since made us look like absolute fools. THEE dopiest looking motherf*cker to ever play for either team ran absolute rings around us.

 

Or that a local teenager who has been given a chance by his club tore us to f*cking pieces while a similar player on our books is.. well who knows the f*ck where. Probably doing the best for his career and plotting a move elsewhere. 

 

Seeing our transfer business fail to address concerns after Wembley was worrying. Watching the football last year was tedious. Our surrender to Huddersfield was frustrating. Today was a f*cking catastrophe.

 

Garbage. Carlos out. 

spot on

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Bassett, Warnock and Wilder..... all upbeat, never-say-die, great man-managers and motivators who get their squads to punch above their weight.

I expected the Blades to win ..that they scored 4 times is a shocker though.

 

Would this Owls squad in the hands of Charlton, Wilkinson, Atkinson .... and Megson, Sturrock and Laws have lost in such fashion today?  

I think not.

We need a modern manager in the mould of some of these guys.                                                    

 

                         

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one thing I will say is that coming from 2 nill down did show character and if it wasn't for the third goal 1 minute 45 seconds after the cracker we were all over them and in my eyes there was only one winner. we can all say we think carlos is clueless and yes 100% he has no plan b as such but are we being slightly unfair to players yet again not playing well ???? Westwood was shocking today and has been for some time and maybe needs some time out the team. the centre backs were shocking none worse that lees who is just plain bobbar without loovens. lee and bannan did nothing today Lee and Jones were completely irrevelant didn't see Jones touch the ball at all are we seriously going to blame the boss for this bobbar....experienced players couldn't tackle pass or take corners today was a complete shambles from start to finish...

hooper as per usual was immense and jao added much needed pace and urgency and a quality finish....as I say if that third goal was not so quickly despatched who knows how it would have finished today....UTO WAWAW

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Brilliant OP and definitely along the lines I've been thinking for most of last season and certainly since the Huddersfield play off games last season.

 

Carlos isn't going to take us any further, because he simply doesn't have the tactical "nous" to out-think other managers who get their teams motivated, well drilled and "wanting the 3 points" more than anything in this world.  His interview on Radio Sheffield after the match was absolute drivel.  I just can't have any faith in him, based on last season and this one so far.  We actually already have more points than our performances have deserved and still we are 7 points behind the top 3.  Had Brentford taken their chances, we would have 3 points fewer and there are other examples where our opponents have missed good chances to score and we have subsequently come away with points.

 

The bottom line is that performances will, in the long term, be mirrored  by results, no matter how many times we get away with poor first half performances and a lack of creativity throughout games.  It now seems unlikely that the type of performances we have seen, will bring in enough points to gain promotion or even the play-off positions this season.

 

The squad, albeit still somewhat unbalanced, has enough firepower and midfield potential if the players are motivated and played in their established positions.  One of the things I think could be a positive is the signing of Butterfield, although he hasn't been given a full game just yet.  He is capable of working box to box, can tackle, see a pass and has a shot in both feet.  However, we need a Head Coach who can see these things and play to the strengths of the eleven who are picked to start each game.  He also needs to have a "plan B" in case the opposition nullify our "Plan A".  I don't see this from Carlos in any way.

 

Unfortunately I get the feeling that DC will not take any action until it is far too late to recover the lost points,  Some may think it's too early to be saying this, but probably this season is now gone, as far as promotion is concerned.  Nevertheless, my view is that the club needs the impetus that a new manager / head coach brings and hopefully one who has a few more strings to his bow than the current incumbent.

 

 

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4 hours ago, sheffield_dave said:

 

It's generally accepted the division takes some sort of shape after 10 games. It's 9 now and we've only won 3 of them. We are 7 points behind the leading pack of 3 teams at the top and Aston Villa - a side who we should expect to be a major rival but have had a "crisis" start of their own - are now above us. 

 

Carlos has also lost the right for this season to be taken in isolation. Following the previous two disappointments I personally felt we HAD to race out of the blocks to justify remaining in his post. I even think the fixture list handed us a really good opportunity to do that. 

 

That hasn't happened, with today providing a particularly rancid cherry to sit on an already flat and underwhelming cake. I think we are at a point now where Carlos' record DOES warrant change - particularly with this continued failure to approach or handle games properly where we NEED to get a result. 

 

I'm struggling to think of another Wednesday manager who has surrendered a Sheffield derby in the fashion that we did today. I don't think there has been one in my lifetime. 

 

Stop posting please Dave ... I'll run out of +'s for the day at this rate lol

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We have spent a fortune and it's becoming apparent that a good deal of it has not been invested wisely and with the FFP regulations you have to wonder what impact that will have on us for the next year or two. Will we look back at the last two seasons as golden opportunities squandered? At the moment, we appear to be just another club in a large group with their eyes on the top six. For now, the top two looks miles away.

 

My fear now is that today's embarrassment will be something of a watershed moment that we may take a while to overcome. The realisation that we aren't perhaps as good as we'd assumed coming into the season has been brought into sharp focus today. Many have referred back to the play-off final and the lack of resolving our issues of that day and I think they're right. We're too weak in the middle of the field, the full backs are no better than mediocre and the bigger the game, the more scared we play. 

 

And as others have stated, we cannot write this off as just one of those days. The signs have been there most of the season. We need to rebound quickly from this, and go on a good run, but do we have the belief and the ability to do so? Does the manager have the humility and courage to change things up? It still seems to me that sacking Carvalhal would be a hasty move that we may come to regret, but the justification for keeping him on is trickling inexorably away like an egg timer.

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20 minutes ago, Kevan said:

Brilliant OP and definitely along the lines I've been thinking for most of last season and certainly since the Huddersfield play off games last season.

 

Carlos isn't going to take us any further, because he simply doesn't have the tactical "nous" to out-think other managers who get their teams motivated, well drilled and "wanting the 3 points" more than anything in this world.  His interview on Radio Sheffield after the match was absolute drivel.  I just can't have any faith in him, based on last season and this one so far.  We actually already have more points than our performances have deserved and still we are 7 points behind the top 3.  Had Brentford taken their chances, we would have 3 points fewer and there are other examples where our opponents have missed good chances to score and we have subsequently come away with points.

 

The bottom line is that performances will, in the long term, be mirrored  by results, no matter how many times we get away with poor first half performances and a lack of creativity throughout games.  It now seems unlikely that the type of performances we have seen, will bring in enough points to gain promotion or even the play-off positions this season.

 

The squad, albeit still somewhat unbalanced, has enough firepower and midfield potential if the players are motivated and played in their established positions.  One of the things I think could be a positive is the signing of Butterfield, although he hasn't been given a full game just yet.  He is capable of working box to box, can tackle, see a pass and has a shot in both feet.  However, we need a Head Coach who can see these things and play to the strengths of the eleven who are picked to start each game.  He also needs to have a "plan B" in case the opposition nullify our "Plan A".  I don't see this from Carlos in any way.

 

Unfortunately I get the feeling that DC will not take any action until it is far too late to recover the lost points,  Some may think it's too early to be saying this, but probably this season is now gone, as far as promotion is concerned.  Nevertheless, my view is that the club needs the impetus that a new manager / head coach brings and hopefully one who has a few more strings to his bow than the current incumbent.

 

 

I was saying last year I thought he'd taken over from SG and taken us up to the next level, but felt top 6 with good players was his level. 

By all accounts he's written books and thesis on tactics and strategies, so Carlos isn't stupid. 

For me the problem is like wenger, he's too rigid, stubborn and lacks the conviction to really back his own judgement when it really matters which is invariably where Carlos seems to fall down. 

He's taken as far as he can and maybe to get to that next level= promotion we need to hand over to a new man with new ideas and simply freshen things up as we do seem a little stale right now. 

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4 hours ago, Captain Sl-OWL-ly said:

Whenever we win the Carlos lovers always ask “where are the ‘moaners’ now”, - haven’t seen one Carlos fan post in this thread so far...

 

I've backed him up to now as I believe in giving managers time in post to get things right. Frequently changing the gaffer rarely results in success.I also don't buy into the moaners / clappers nonsense as it serves only to divide the fanbase. However I cannot and will not defend todays debacle. CC is on borrowed time with two tough games ahead. It could all end quickly for him. My view is that he should have until November. If he can't turn it around it gives a new manager time to assess and tweak the team before the January window.

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1 minute ago, BRADDO said:

 

I've backed him up to now as I believe in giving managers time in post to get things right. Frequently changing the gaffer rarely results in success.I also don't buy into the moaners / clappers nonsense as it serves only to divide the fanbase. However I cannot and will not defend todays debacle. CC is on borrowed time with two tough games ahead. It could all end quickly for him. My view is that he should have until November. If he can't turn it around it gives a new manager time to assess and tweak the team before the January window.

This sums up where I'm at.

 

Good old Owlstalk, I've spent a few hours on here with fellow Owls and feel a bit better now!  Tomorrow is a new day and Wednesday is another game.  Big week for Carlos coming up.

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25 minutes ago, DJMortimer said:

We have spent a fortune and it's becoming apparent that a good deal of it has not been invested wisely and with the FFP regulations you have to wonder what impact that will have on us for the next year or two. Will we look back at the last two seasons as golden opportunities squandered? At the moment, we appear to be just another club in a large group with their eyes on the top six. For now, the top two looks miles away.

 

My fear now is that today's embarrassment will be something of a watershed moment that we may take a while to overcome. The realisation that we aren't perhaps as good as we'd assumed coming into the season has been brought into sharp focus today. Many have referred back to the play-off final and the lack of resolving our issues of that day and I think they're right. We're too weak in the middle of the field, the full backs are no better than mediocre and the bigger the game, the more scared we play. 

 

And as others have stated, we cannot write this off as just one of those days. The signs have been there most of the season. We need to rebound quickly from this, and go on a good run, but do we have the belief and the ability to do so? Does the manager have the humility and courage to change things up? It still seems to me that sacking Carvalhal would be a hasty move that we may come to regret, but the justification for keeping him on is trickling inexorably away like an egg timer.

I totally agree. Superb post.

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55 minutes ago, Charles Clegg said:

Bassett, Warnock and Wilder..... all upbeat, never-say-die, great man-managers and motivators who get their squads to punch above their weight.

I expected the Blades to win ..that they scored 4 times is a shocker though.                                                    

 

                         

 

This.

 

I really hate to admit it, but the blunts were quicker, slicker, hungrier and pretty much better than us in every department today. We may have the better players, but by god they've got the better team.

 

I always had a feeling they were going to win today. But not in that fashion. I mean 0-1 would have hurt, but I would have got over it. But 2-4, at our place, and after we'd got back to 2-2...........they're never going to let us forget this are they? We've been top of the pile in this city for several seasons now, but today we lost the bragging rights, and I can't see how we're going to get them back anytime soon.

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5 hours ago, daleblue said:

Where's Mick, be on here in a couple of days to tell us all to calm down and that it's only one match and we have to look at the bigger picture, well I am, and

it looks like bobbar, poor full backs, midfield so so, no cohesion, get out thought  in first half, too pedestrian, its boring and it aint gonna get us promoted,

need change, need a new manager.

All that I think about is all that money wasted.

He'll be along to tell us Carlos doesnt coach them to make these mistakes. Unfortunately though these idiots keep making these mistakes week in week out.

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I'm still absolutely stunned by today's game.

 

Not because United were a class apart but because of how we contrived to hand them a 2 goal lead inside 15 minutes and from then on only looked like conceding more.

 

I'd defend CC if there was a clear identity to how his team plays but there is literally nothing I can outrightly say we play to as a strength after that.

 

It's been years since I've witnessed a performance like that from us on our own turf, I had to think back to an LDV trophy game v Blackpool where we got beaten 0-3 and Plymouth doing a similar thing in a League game..............this was on that level but so much worse because there is no excuse for such basic errors.

 

What is it? A team of bottlers who just cannot handle a big occasion? Or a clueless manager who stands gormlessly looking on whilst 3 sides of the ground are begging him to change whats going on?

 

Biggest week of CC's management of this club coming up and on that showing, I wouldn't hold any single hope of him turning it around so quickly and moreso because he isn't giving the players the rollocking they rightly need.

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If I were the chairman I would say to the manager that my patience and faith were running out. Whilst it is not the chairman's place to dictate on-field matters, no matter how much he spends, I would ask how our current monotonous brand of football gives us the best chance of success with the resources available. Surely, we should be imposing ourselves on opponents more than we are (in 10 of our last 14 league and play-off games we've had 3 attempts on target or less)?

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Cracking post Dave, and echoes my thoughts completely. 

 

Going into the next 2 games I have no confidence that we are going to come away with any points whatsoever. In a very bizarre way and I’m sure most will disagree but I hope we come away with nothing if it means the end of CC.

 

Enough is enough, I can’t bare to see the same turgid rubbish that we have put on show for the past year. 

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42 minutes ago, shezzas left peg said:

I was saying last year I thought he'd taken over from SG and taken us up to the next level, but felt top 6 with good players was his level. 

By all accounts he's written books and thesis on tactics and strategies, so Carlos isn't stupid. 

For me the problem is like wenger, he's too rigid, stubborn and lacks the conviction to really back his own judgement when it really matters which is invariably where Carlos seems to fall down. 

He's taken as far as he can and maybe to get to that next level= promotion we need to hand over to a new man with new ideas and simply freshen things up as we do seem a little stale right now. 

Listening to a discussion on  the radio the other night about foreign managers. General consensus is that they are very rigid in what they do. Main protagonists being Wenger and Klopp. Also mentioned were Guardiola and Mouriniho as not being that flexible in their tactics.Also mentioned that they don't tend to hang around very long Wenger being the exception obvs. Seems the average length of time they stay is two seasons then they move on

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