Holmowl Posted September 3, 2017 Share Posted September 3, 2017 A lot of fan-talk about new formations. But be honest, if you were going to put your wage-packet on formation for Forest we would all write 442 on the betting slip (old-fart terminology). Purely on merit from this season's performances, who do we class as a "must-start" and in what position? Try to be unbiased, dont pick your favourites, and dont pick players who "are bound to come good soon". Here's mine:- Westwood Hunt Lees Up for grabs Reach or upfor grabs Up for grabs Bannan Jones Reach or up for grabs Hooper Fletcher If (and its a huge if) Carlos was to pick purely on current merit, imo he cant leave a single one of the above out of the XI. That means no immediate return to the starting Xl for several big name fan faves. We have about 20 players who would play 46 games if fit for most sides in this division. The skill now is for Carlos to keep players and watchers desperate for a start. Rotating to keep a big squad happy is counter-productive. A player should fight for a place, then fight to keep it. But, if he deserves to keep it on merit he must be allowed to keep his place. Nothing worse than playing well, only to be told "I'm giving you a rest next outing son". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morepork Posted September 3, 2017 Share Posted September 3, 2017 (edited) I stopped trying to guess the lineups ages ago!! Im not totally against rotation but for me it should be limited to 1-2 players per game, that gives us some continuity. Also, nobody that had a blinder in his last game should ever, ever be rotated out. I know the games faster and more physical than ever but the players are fitter than ever to boot. Like you say the majority of our players are capable of starting every game. Edited September 3, 2017 by Morepork Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pazowl55 Posted September 3, 2017 Share Posted September 3, 2017 Westwood Hunt Lees Van Aken Reach Wallace Jones Butterfield Bannan Fletcher Hooper Very close to this I would imagine for Forest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
s73owl Posted September 3, 2017 Share Posted September 3, 2017 54 minutes ago, Holmowl said: A lot of fan-talk about new formations. But be honest, if you were going to put your wage-packet on formation for Forest we would all write 442 on the betting slip (old-fart terminology). Purely on merit from this season's performances, who do we class as a "must-start" and in what position? Try to be unbiased, dont pick your favourites, and dont pick players who "are bound to come good soon". Here's mine:- Westwood Hunt Lees Up for grabs Reach or upfor grabs Up for grabs Bannan Jones Reach or up for grabs Hooper Fletcher If (and its a huge if) Carlos was to pick purely on current merit, imo he cant leave a single one of the above out of the XI. That means no immediate return to the starting Xl for several big name fan faves. We have about 20 players who would play 46 games if fit for most sides in this division. The skill now is for Carlos to keep players and watchers desperate for a start. Rotating to keep a big squad happy is counter-productive. A player should fight for a place, then fight to keep it. But, if he deserves to keep it on merit he must be allowed to keep his place. Nothing worse than playing well, only to be told "I'm giving you a rest next outing son". That up for grabs looks quite a versatile player 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Judas Atkinson Posted September 3, 2017 Share Posted September 3, 2017 I think the 8 mentioned earlier are certain starters in most games, at the moment. I also agree with the type of lineup suggested by Pazowl is likely in our next game, although I could see Pudil starting and Van Aiken being on the bench. There will however be rotation and with 2 home games in a row there will need to be some. If Reach is at left back it will be the diamond with a more conventional 4-4-2 if Reach is wide left. We have subs who can then come on and turn a game, it is up to them to do well enough to either take the shirt or get themselves first in line when there is an injury. The front 2 won't be fit all season. Having Butterfield rather than Abdi makes the diamond more likely, and more likely to work well, and I see it as the basis for upcoming home games. Not sure where that leaves Boyd though, I expected him to be more than an away player. Carlos doesn't seem to think he is right in the diamond, I can't see why not really. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
areNOTwhatTHEYseem Posted September 3, 2017 Share Posted September 3, 2017 (edited) Football doesn't really work like that, though. Carlos might identify a weakness in the opposition which he feels a particular player or combination might exploit; conversely, he might identify a threat which he feels a particular player might be able to nullify. Alex Ferguson was a master at adapting his lineups and formations depending on the context of each game, and many other managers adopt similar approaches. We also have to factor in the performance of players in training, which we as fans don't see - if, for example, Butterfield has come in and performed brilliantly, demonstrating an ability to transform our team in a way that Jones doesn't, it would be daft for our head coach to leave him on the bench if he feels that he's the player he really wants out there on the pitch. Similarly, if a player who played a blinder last time out is setting alarm bells ringing for the fitness coaches, who feel that he's struggling to recover and may be at risk of injury if he plays in the next match (hopefully not at this early stage of the season!), then it makes sense to leave him out, as long we have a capable replacement. I expect we'll see a certain degree of rotation to suit the demands of each game and to manage the squad through the season. As Rafa Benetiz once said: ‘no player is indispensable, although some are more important than others.’ Edited September 3, 2017 by areNOTwhatTHEYseem Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pazowl55 Posted September 3, 2017 Share Posted September 3, 2017 3 minutes ago, Judas Atkinson said: I think the 8 mentioned earlier are certain starters in most games, at the moment. I also agree with the type of lineup suggested by Pazowl is likely in our next game, although I could see Pudil starting and Van Aiken being on the bench. There will however be rotation and with 2 home games in a row there will need to be some. If Reach is at left back it will be the diamond with a more conventional 4-4-2 if Reach is wide left. We have subs who can then come on and turn a game, it is up to them to do well enough to either take the shirt or get themselves first in line when there is an injury. The front 2 won't be fit all season. Having Butterfield rather than Abdi makes the diamond more likely, and more likely to work well, and I see it as the basis for upcoming home games. Not sure where that leaves Boyd though, I expected him to be more than an away player. Carlos doesn't seem to think he is right in the diamond, I can't see why not really. I see the diamond for home games even more so now we have a ball playing centre back in Van Aken and a player who by all account seem like he could play at the top of the diamond a lot better than Abdi could. To me Carlos have brought those two with this formation in mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nero Posted September 3, 2017 Share Posted September 3, 2017 Carlos away Best keeper available Defensive RB Best CH Best CH Defensive LB High energy right midfield Defensive midfield Link midfield High energy left midfield No 10 Big man Carlos Home Best keeper available Attacking RB Best CH Best CH Attacking LB Linking right midfield Defensive midfield Link left midfield No 10 Big man Striker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
owlandished Posted September 3, 2017 Share Posted September 3, 2017 Westwood Hunt Lees Reach Bannan Hooper Fletcher Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blatter Posted September 3, 2017 Share Posted September 3, 2017 I firmly believe that the key to our season is to stop getting overrun in midfield. With (hopefully) improved central defenders on the field it should remove the need for a purely defensive midfielder. This being the case I hope Carlos can find a way of fitting Lee, Butterfield and Bannan into a a more attacking midfield. Butterfield looks like the sort of player who can operate as a midfield playmaker in the style of Mooy for Huddersfield. So Westwood Hunnt, Lees, Van Aken, Reach Lee, Butterfield, Bannan, Forestieri Hooper, Fletcher With FF at the tip of a midfield diamond and full backs pushing forward. Think this is most likely as Carlos does not rate wingers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldishowl Posted September 3, 2017 Share Posted September 3, 2017 Depends which system we are going to play. As for the spine of Bannan, Jones, Hooper and Fletcher in a flat 442. No chance, we don't appear to be able to score more than one goal a game with that Got to change Fingers crossed that Lee will be back soon I would like to think that if we genuinely turned down big money for one of our players then he is going to be in the starting 11. Otherwise our club is in one big mess Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geörge Whitebread Posted September 3, 2017 Share Posted September 3, 2017 Vs Forest in mandatory 4-4-2 (as per rules of thread)... - - - - - - - - - Westwood - - - - - - - - - Hunt - - Lees - - - van Aken - - - Pudl Reach - Butterfield - Bannan - - Boyd - - - - - Hooper - - - Fletcher - - - - - - (Reach & Boyd swapping throughout) What I would go with if 4-4-2 wasn't mandated... - - - - - - - - Westwood - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Lees - - - van Aken - - - - Hunt - - - - - - Jones - - - - - - Reach - - - - Butterfield - - - Bannan - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Forestieri - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Hooper - - - - - Fletcher - - - - When fit, Hutchinson in for Jones and Lee in for Bannan or Butterfield. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Costello 77 Posted September 3, 2017 Share Posted September 3, 2017 Play your best eleven as long as they can physically take it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geörge Whitebread Posted September 3, 2017 Share Posted September 3, 2017 (edited) 45 minutes ago, George Whitebread said: Vs Forest in mandatory 4-4-2 (as per rules of thread)... - - - - - - - - - Westwood - - - - - - - - - Hunt - - Lees - - - van Aken - - - Pudl Reach - Butterfield - Bannan - - Boyd - - - - - Hooper - - - Fletcher - - - - - - (Reach & Boyd swapping throughout) What I would go with if 4-4-2 wasn't mandated... - - - - - - - - Westwood - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Lees - - - van Aken - - - - Hunt - - - - - - Jones - - - - - - Reach - - - - Butterfield - - - Bannan - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Forestieri - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Hooper - - - - - Fletcher - - - - When fit, Hutchinson in for Jones and Lee in for Bannan or Butterfield. Or, Lee in for Forestieri, leaving him as a game-changing super-sub. i.e. Lee - Butterfield - Bannan in front of Hutchinson (as opposed to Lee in No.10 position). Edited September 3, 2017 by George Whitebread Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eightace Posted September 3, 2017 Share Posted September 3, 2017 47 minutes ago, Costello 77 said: Play your best eleven as long as they can physically take it. The best teams I remember stuck with the same core and didn't change that often. Wilkinsons and Big Ron's teams usually picked themselves. I'm not a fan of chopping and changing for the opposition or rotating players in general. They need games to get into their stride and you need a settled side that knows each other inside out imo. Dropping a striker if he doesn't score for 3 games just puts him back to square one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hawkeye Posted September 3, 2017 Share Posted September 3, 2017 Westwood Lees Lee Bannan Hooper They are the only undroppables, assuming form and fitness. Hutchinson and Forestieri you'd also expect to always be in the 11, but it's probably not guaranteed at the moment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wednesday_Jack Posted September 3, 2017 Share Posted September 3, 2017 3 hours ago, Holmowl said: A lot of fan-talk about new formations. But be honest, if you were going to put your wage-packet on formation for Forest we would all write 442 on the betting slip (old-fart terminology). Purely on merit from this season's performances, who do we class as a "must-start" and in what position? Try to be unbiased, dont pick your favourites, and dont pick players who "are bound to come good soon". Here's mine:- Westwood Hunt Lees Up for grabs Reach or upfor grabs Up for grabs Bannan Jones Reach or up for grabs Hooper Fletcher If (and its a huge if) Carlos was to pick purely on current merit, imo he cant leave a single one of the above out of the XI. That means no immediate return to the starting Xl for several big name fan faves. We have about 20 players who would play 46 games if fit for most sides in this division. The skill now is for Carlos to keep players and watchers desperate for a start. Rotating to keep a big squad happy is counter-productive. A player should fight for a place, then fight to keep it. But, if he deserves to keep it on merit he must be allowed to keep his place. Nothing worse than playing well, only to be told "I'm giving you a rest next outing son". Good job your not our manager...we'd be in the same position as we are now!!! A manager that doesn't know his best 11. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigash_swfc Posted September 3, 2017 Share Posted September 3, 2017 Westwood Fox,Reach Loovens, Jones, Hooper Lees, Bannan, Fletcher Hunt, Boyd Shirts have to be earned, trust has to be gained. We might see the best version of Jones, Loovens and Lees now they've got competition. And who knows, Abdi, Butterfield, Lee, Hutchinson all fighting for the bench. Only the best will get picked Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whatevertrevor Posted September 3, 2017 Share Posted September 3, 2017 OwlsTalk rule #27 - At least 50% of respondents must miss the point of the OP. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
northeastowl Posted September 3, 2017 Share Posted September 3, 2017 No one is a must start player, all players should earn the right to start or that's where problems start. Yes we have our Lees, Hoopers and Bannan etc that are our most important players but if they are not performing get them out. The way some of our strikers are performing I'd already have given Joao more game time as he offers pace and skill which none of our others do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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