owl84 Posted September 1, 2017 Share Posted September 1, 2017 4 minutes ago, whatevertrevor said: People keep saying he isn't good enough yet, and perhaps he isn't, but one of the main factors in becoming good enough is having some well managed exposure to first team football. Many seem to suggest that he shouldn't be picked until he is a Championship quality striker - but that isn't really how development of a player works. He would have got that should he have signed a new contract, by going out on loan to a league 1 / league 2 club. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bing Cosby Posted September 1, 2017 Share Posted September 1, 2017 1 hour ago, s110wl said: Pffffft. Clearly we should decide if our players are any good by comparing them to multiple champions league winners. Cant you see how productive that is?! Rooney has only won the Champions League once. Sorry to be pedantic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
No 2 is r nilsson Posted September 1, 2017 Share Posted September 1, 2017 George has been developed well by the club and given every opportunity. He could be a great footballer, but that's subject to him keeping his head down and working hard. His advisers need to get this message across to him before the lad starts to believe the hype and all the other great prospects from Arsenal, ManU, Chelsea etc overtake him. Comparisons with Rooney and others help only to illustrate how these great players worked hard to get where they are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LiamAP22D Posted September 1, 2017 Share Posted September 1, 2017 We all saw what Joao Can do at Hirst's level the other week. Looked like he was playing against toddlers, they couldn't get near him. Move on lads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StudentOwl Posted September 1, 2017 Share Posted September 1, 2017 (edited) When you take into account his ability and age, he should probably be 5th or 6th choice IMO, that'd be fair. I'd rather have Hirst at the club than Nuhiu... but saying that, with Nuhiu at the club I'd rather see him than Hirst on the bench. No, really... he offers something different and basically guarantees the scores will stay the same as they were when he walks onto the pitch. Hardly a good trait for a striker/goalscorer... an excellent trait when you're winning 1-0 with 8 minutes left. So with that in mind, even with Winnall gone, I make Hirst 6th choice. Maybe he should be 5th in the pecking order, but it's hard to argue that his current standing in the squad isn't entirely fair. The fact he hasn't gone out on loan will irk me more than the fact he isn't regularly making the bench Edited September 1, 2017 by StudentOwl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
owl84 Posted September 1, 2017 Share Posted September 1, 2017 6 minutes ago, No 2 is r nilsson said: George has been developed well by the club and given every opportunity. He could be a great footballer, but that's subject to him keeping his head down and working hard. His advisers need to get this message across to him before the lad starts to believe the hype and all the other great prospects from Arsenal, ManU, Chelsea etc overtake him. Comparisons with Rooney and others help only to illustrate how these great players worked hard to get where they are. The players at Arsenal, Man Utd, Chelsea etc are already miles in front of him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whatevertrevor Posted September 1, 2017 Share Posted September 1, 2017 5 minutes ago, owl84 said: He would have got that should he have signed a new contract, by going out on loan to a league 1 / league 2 club. Yep, but failing that I think we need to try, if and when possible, to include him in the first team squad and give him the odd 10 minutes for now. That would of course rely on us ever having more than a one goal lead mind you... We can't wait until he's a 'proven championship striker' before we give him some game time because without our help he will never get there, or at least never prove it. With youth you sometimes need to lose a little in the short term to gain in the long term. Other clubs do that so well. In fact, they often end up not losing in the short term because the really talented youngsters find a way to raise their level beyond their experience levels. Long story short, I think in lieu of a loan move we need to give me minutes (when possible) ahead of payers that may, on paper, be better than his current level. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
owl84 Posted September 1, 2017 Share Posted September 1, 2017 3 minutes ago, whatevertrevor said: Yep, but failing that I think we need to try, if and when possible, to include him in the first team squad and give him the odd 10 minutes for now. That would of course rely on us ever having more than a one goal lead mind you... We can't wait until he's a 'proven championship striker' before we give him some game time because without our help he will never get there, or at least never prove it. With youth you sometimes need to lose a little in the short term to gain in the long term. Other clubs do that so well. In fact, they often end up not losing in the short term because the really talented youngsters find a way to raise their level beyond their experience levels. Long story short, I think in lieu of a loan move we need to give me minutes (when possible) ahead of payers that may, on paper, be better than his current level. It would be a good idea for the time being and might make him feel important and gives him the feel of it and then he does sign a new contract, even if he starts travelling with the first team and doesn't make the bench. Chesterfield and Bolton would have been ideal for that and a couple of the others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markg Posted September 1, 2017 Share Posted September 1, 2017 9 hours ago, timeforaboycott said: CC described him as an embryo a couple of weeks ago,so don't expect that arrogant fool, to give a damn about Wednesdays future. You talking about his dad? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StudentOwl Posted September 1, 2017 Share Posted September 1, 2017 5 minutes ago, whatevertrevor said: Long story short, I think in lieu of a loan move we need to give me minutes (when possible) ahead of payers that may, on paper, be better than his current level. Hi George Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markg Posted September 1, 2017 Share Posted September 1, 2017 Just now, owl84 said: It would be a good idea for the time being and might make him feel important and gives him the feel of it and then he does sign a new contract, even if he starts travelling with the first team and doesn't make the bench. Chesterfield and Bolton would have been ideal for that and a couple of the others. His dad his desperate to get him out of the club and had been for a while. Why would we play him? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whatevertrevor Posted September 1, 2017 Share Posted September 1, 2017 Just now, StudentOwl said: Hi George Haha, I assumed you edited that, but no, I'm an idiot. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
owl84 Posted September 1, 2017 Share Posted September 1, 2017 Just now, markg said: His dad his desperate to get him out of the club and had been for a while. Why would we play him? I understand that too it's tough one if we don't want him to stay why didn't we sell him? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daveyboy66 Posted September 1, 2017 Share Posted September 1, 2017 His England coaches have said that he is being developed in the right way and has come on over the last season...the club are doing a good job...some first team football at this stage is the next step so a loan to a footballing side looks to be his next move forward Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frastheowl Posted September 1, 2017 Share Posted September 1, 2017 If Winnall hadn't had the training ground bust up with FF, he wouldn't have played a minute for the club this season, so I can't see this deal suddenly paving a way for Hirst. Hooper, Fletcher & Rhodes will vie for the first two spots, and Nuhiu & Joao will provide the back up. Say what you want about Nuhiu, and yes, he maybe should have been moved on by now, but he offers a good option to bring on late in the game to help see a game out. And, I may be in the minority here, but Joao is a player that we need to get back on track. He now has 4 months to become a genuine second option off the bench, and he has all the attributes to be a very handy option coming off the bench. Hirst needs to get his future sorted out, one way or another, and continue to score goals in the U23's, and be ready to move, either on loan or away from the club permanently in January. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Etchesketch Posted September 1, 2017 Share Posted September 1, 2017 3 minutes ago, daveyboy66 said: His England coaches have said that he is being developed in the right way and has come on over the last season...the club are doing a good job...some first team football at this stage is the next step so a loan to a footballing side looks to be his next move forward If he is to go on loan to a League Club he'll have to wait until January now. Can go on loan to National League and below still though. Can players be loaned after the transfer deadline? Until last season, players were able to sign on short-term loans (up to three months) once the deadline had closed. But Fifa changed the rules last year to close that loophole, meaning loans must also be agreed during the transfer window. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Bagarri Posted September 1, 2017 Share Posted September 1, 2017 People have got to accept that it looks, almost nailed on, that he's off at the end of the season. We've handled it poorly, he and his Dad may have also, but we don't know the story. Big shame. We'll be thinking the tribunal will be more than £2 million, so wind it down. He's frozen out of the U23's and had a loan move scrapped...because he won't sign a contract. I'd we won't see this kid play a reserve game again - never mind be near the 1st team! Like I said - what a shame! ...but let it go... Just pray he doesn't end up at Leeds!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonnyowl Posted September 1, 2017 Share Posted September 1, 2017 He should have gone out on loan, he's not going to be a player at this moment that would help our promotion chances. I think if we were a comfortable premiership mid table side he'd get games. Pressure of promotion and the need for 3 points every game is too much to give this lad a chance Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhiteOwl91 Posted September 1, 2017 Share Posted September 1, 2017 Any comparisons of the likes of Rooney at 18 (or any top class player!) to Hirst Jr are ridiculous. Rooney was built like an Ox at 18 whereas Hirst is still very very slight. Yes Owen was slight too, but he was also absolutely rapid and no one could get near him. Hirst isn't. Club can't be held to ransom or give a young player like him significantly more than other players for risk of upsetting the pay structure. Again, have to trust the club to do what is best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danblakemore Posted September 1, 2017 Share Posted September 1, 2017 I just remember the u23 game against Chelsea last season. It was literally men against boys. There is is a million miles between premier league u23's and ours. It's shown with the number of those Chelsea players now out on loan at championship and premiership level. for what it's worth it sounds to me like the lad has had his head turned and that he'll probably leave for all the wrong reasons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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