toppOwl Posted August 30, 2017 Share Posted August 30, 2017 1 minute ago, vulva said: Irrelevant. That's his peer group. He's in the top 20 players in the country for his age. Players get tapped up. Everton et al will have had a word and noted that £x per wk is on the table. Up to us to match it. And don't lose sight of the fact that in terms of development we hardly have a glittering track record. Our under 23's won the league last year. Hardly anyone has made the first team bench, and lads have been packed off to Port Vale etc. Everton can tell Hirst that the likes of Stones, Calvert Lewin, Holgate, Pennington and Davies are all/have been Premier League regulars when not a great deal older. If you could earn far more money, with a clear and proven route to Premier League football, would you take it? I would, and this is far more palatable than having my path to Championship football blocked by a utterly flawed transfer policy. The ball is in Wednesday's court. Like I said earlier, we cannot match what a Prem club will offer, if they are determined to get him he's gone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billyblack Posted August 30, 2017 Share Posted August 30, 2017 1 hour ago, toppOwl said: We couldn't match what a Prem club would offer him, no chance. How much are they offering him? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramone Posted August 30, 2017 Share Posted August 30, 2017 14 hours ago, SallyCinnamon said: That was a year ago now? He's kicked on quite a bit since then. Any other club in the league, except a few who also have spent big, Hirst would be pushing for a place on the bench. I'm not saying he's the finish article but he is probably the best prospect we've produced attacking wise in way over a decade. Him, his Dad and his agent have probably seen our ridiculous signings of Rhodes and Winnalll and realised that he's never going to get a shot here. He'll be looking at other players from the local area like Calvert Lewin and Mason Holgate leave their clubs early in their development, joined a Premier League club and now reaping the rewards. Can't help but think we have managed his development all wrong. Both have had full seasons in Professional Football. Calvert Lewin was in and around their first team as well as playing a full season at Northampton. Holgate had played a full season at Barnsley. Purely on the basis that they were playing at a level where they would be afforded the chance to play, Could you imagine the Carlos haters if Hirst was on the bench over Rhodes. They'd be baying for blood. But hey, if it means you can have another sly dig at the club by suggesting we're wasting the talent of a child then fair enough... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billyblack Posted August 30, 2017 Share Posted August 30, 2017 1 minute ago, toppOwl said: Like I said earlier, we cannot match what a Prem club will offer, if they are determined to get him he's gone. So are we saying he could get game time for Everton but not us? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billyblack Posted August 30, 2017 Share Posted August 30, 2017 1 hour ago, thewookieisdown said: The same terms as what? You have no idea, and nor in fairness do I, about any specifics. On the general point however if a big club really wanted him then of course we couldn't replicate their terms. Again we don't know that that is on the cards but it may be. So hypothetically, what do we think as a 19 year old with little first team experience can get get offered? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thewookieisdown Posted August 30, 2017 Share Posted August 30, 2017 1 minute ago, billyblack said: So hypothetically, what do we think as a 19 year old with little first team experience can get get offered? I genuinely don't know about figures. The point simply is that Everton or Leicester have far deeper pockets than we do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sonny Posted August 30, 2017 Share Posted August 30, 2017 He could go to Everton and have a glittering career like former prolific England u17 striker Hallam Hope. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billyblack Posted August 30, 2017 Share Posted August 30, 2017 2 minutes ago, thewookieisdown said: I genuinely don't know about figures. The point simply is that Everton or Leicester have far deeper pockets than we do. Agreed with that but there is still a limit of what they will offer. He is still a kid.not playing first team football. If they think he is so good why dont we? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thewookieisdown Posted August 30, 2017 Share Posted August 30, 2017 7 minutes ago, billyblack said: So are we saying he could get game time for Everton but not us? I don't think anyone supposes that, and indeed if that was so we would have an insane state of affairs. I'm assuming that at present he is a player with major potential but not ready for championship level football. This seems to be the view that most people who have seen him and understand what u23 is about also take. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billyblack Posted August 30, 2017 Share Posted August 30, 2017 2 minutes ago, thewookieisdown said: I don't think anyone supposes that, and indeed if that was so we would have an insane state of affairs. I'm assuming that at present he is a player with major potential but not ready for championship level football. This seems to be the view that most people who have seen him and understand what u23 is about also take. Agreed. So why cant we offer him a decent contract and loan him out just like the buying club would do? They wont offer him silly money yet. Still unproven. Strikes me we arent willing to gamble on a potential valuable asset. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
solo Posted August 30, 2017 Share Posted August 30, 2017 Should have been sent out on loan last season . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian Posted August 30, 2017 Share Posted August 30, 2017 12 minutes ago, Sonny said: He could go to Everton and have a glittering career like former prolific England u17 striker Hallam Hope. Exactly this...or he could leave for decent money after setting the youth teams alight and us not really seeing him.....that would guarantee a glittering career like Tony Simmons in days gone past......all you younger folk will obviously have heard of him! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billyblack Posted August 30, 2017 Share Posted August 30, 2017 1 minute ago, Ian said: Exactly this...or he could leave for decent money after setting the youth teams alight and us not really seeing him.....that would guarantee a glittering career like Tony Simmons in days gone past......all you younger folk will obviously have heard of him! He could just stay here and develop and be worth a fortune or not. Its up to the club if they want to take that gamble. Seems pointless having a development squad if we dont in my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Owlinmad Posted August 30, 2017 Share Posted August 30, 2017 18 minutes ago, billyblack said: Agreed. So why cant we offer him a decent contract and loan him out just like the buying club would do? They wont offer him silly money yet. Still unproven. Strikes me we arent willing to gamble on a potential valuable asset. Maybe we have ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark77 Posted August 30, 2017 Share Posted August 30, 2017 It's clearly reached the stage where Hirst has decided his future is elsewhere if he's refusing to sign a new deal. Club now needs to protect itself. Sell him for as much as we can this window, include future clauses for appearances, goals, international appearances etc. Finally a percentage of future sale as it's likely he will move on for big money at some point in the future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Belfast Owl 2 Posted August 30, 2017 Share Posted August 30, 2017 15 hours ago, SallyCinnamon said: That was a year ago now? He's kicked on quite a bit since then. Any other club in the league, except a few who also have spent big, Hirst would be pushing for a place on the bench. I'm not saying he's the finish article but he is probably the best prospect we've produced attacking wise in way over a decade. Him, his Dad and his agent have probably seen our ridiculous signings of Rhodes and Winnalll and realised that he's never going to get a shot here. He'll be looking at other players from the local area like Calvert Lewin and Mason Holgate leave their clubs early in their development, joined a Premier League club and now reaping the rewards. Can't help but think we have managed his development all wrong. You do love making assumptions it seems. There is nothing to back up this statements at all yet you are throwing them about. The Owlstalk experts know best for the lad it seems. This thread is just another excuse for people to bash the thread then realize 17 year old prospects need to be managed correctly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billyblack Posted August 30, 2017 Share Posted August 30, 2017 10 minutes ago, Owlinmad said: Maybe we have ? Maybe we have what? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billyblack Posted August 30, 2017 Share Posted August 30, 2017 5 minutes ago, mark77 said: It's clearly reached the stage where Hirst has decided his future is elsewhere if he's refusing to sign a new deal. Club now needs to protect itself. Sell him for as much as we can this window, include future clauses for appearances, goals, international appearances etc. Finally a percentage of future sale as it's likely he will move on for big money at some point in the future. The more i think about this the more i think its nothing to do with the money. Something has happened and the relationship isnt what it was. Why would the son of a club legend want to leave at this stage in his career and more importantly why would the club not try and keep him. He could be one of out best assets and investments in years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark77 Posted August 30, 2017 Share Posted August 30, 2017 Just now, billyblack said: Maybe we have what? Offer him a deal and loan him out... We clearly have, if he won't sign I don't know what you want the club to do? We have to get the biggest return possible on him. This was spoken about at the fans forum. One vocal guy insisting he should be playing now. It was pointed out to him 6/7 senior players are in front of him. Chansiri himself was forced to tell him that playing Hirst would mean the likes of Hooper, Fletcher, Rhodes or FF dropping out. How would they feel being told "you're not playing today because we are playing a 17 year old who was made one substitute senior appearance in his career. The fact you are an international striker or have scored 100s of league goals is irrelevant. Not going to happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark77 Posted August 30, 2017 Share Posted August 30, 2017 2 minutes ago, billyblack said: The more i think about this the more i think its nothing to do with the money. Something has happened and the relationship isnt what it was. Why would the son of a club legend want to leave at this stage in his career and more importantly why would the club not try and keep him. He could be one of out best assets and investments in years. Of course it's about money!! Why do you think he wants to leave? He'll be paid more in a Premier League academy than we could ever offer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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