paulrs Posted August 12, 2017 Share Posted August 12, 2017 (edited) Fully aware of starting a thread like this mid-match but even a win today wont change my mind on this; Carlos has to go, probably should have gone in the summer, and this is why - he makes the players worse. Simple as that. Can anyone name me one player that's improved significantly under his coaching? Just one. Because I can't. During Carlos's time he must have selected 50+ players and have any of them got better? The consistently good performers like Westwood, Lees, Hutchinson and Lee were already playing well under Stuart Gray. Then look at the reputations of players like Rhodes, Abdi, Reach, Matias, Jones, Winnall...even McManaman and McGeady - how poor have they all been since signing for us? Even players that were pretty good under Stuart Gray like McGugan, Nuhiu and Palmer have become bit-part players contributing little or nothing to the team during the whole of last season. How many of the successful youth and under-23 sides have got anywhere near to establishing themselves in the matchday squads despite presumably training with the first team on a regular basis? Perhaps our most promising young talent during Carlos' tenure - Joao- has gone alarmingly backwards in his development. For me this evidence is irrefutable. Our top 6 finishes are IN SPITE of Carlos, not BECAUSE of him. He's been backed hugely with transfers, has a strike force and squad depth 95% of other championship managers over the last 3 years would envy, and yet we seem further away from promotion now than we've ever been at any time under his management. Carlos said in his pre-match presser (sorry) this week that it is his job to improve the players. His exact words. Well look at the evidence - if that's his job then he is completely and utterly failing at it. Even his most successful signings - Forestieri and Bannan - have seen their level of performance deteriorate and split the fanbase as to their value to the team. I like Carlos a lot, as a guy he's a class act and I'd have loved him to be the man to take us up. But to me it's startlingly obvious that he's unable to develop the players and therefore the team, and the longer he stays the further backwards we'll go. I appreciate his tireless efforts to get us back to the Premier League over the last two years, but the harsh reality is I hope he'll be gone before the month is out. Edited August 12, 2017 by paulrs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dronfield Blue Posted August 12, 2017 Share Posted August 12, 2017 Fair comment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorpski Posted August 12, 2017 Share Posted August 12, 2017 Unfortunately this is true... the decision to get rid of Carlos should have been made at the end of last season... getting rid of him now does not sit with me comfortably... as it it means a new manager does not have a pre season to work with the squad and make the necessary adjustments... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GMOwl72 Posted August 12, 2017 Share Posted August 12, 2017 Has to go for the sake of my health! Can feel the blood pressure increasing with every minute of the season ad we are only two league games in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Southie_Owl Posted August 12, 2017 Share Posted August 12, 2017 (edited) 2 minutes ago, Thorpski said: Unfortunately this is true... the decision to get rid of Carlos should have been made at the end of last season... getting rid of him now does not sit with me comfortably... as it it means a new manager does not have a pre season to work with the squad and make the necessary adjustments... It seems neither did Carlos so makes no difference now if we get a new man or get Carlos to change things (which isn't happening) Edited August 12, 2017 by Southie_Owl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Farrell Posted August 12, 2017 Share Posted August 12, 2017 Hopefully our esteemed Chairman has scoped out our options. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichSheffWeds Posted August 12, 2017 Share Posted August 12, 2017 Perversely at times he has played nearly all the 11 players that played against Hull in the play off final despite signing what, 20 plus players since that game. That is just weird by any stretch of the imagination. He has to go quickly otherwise the season will be over for us before we know it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorpski Posted August 12, 2017 Share Posted August 12, 2017 2 minutes ago, Southie_Owl said: It seems neither did Carlos so makes no difference now if we get a new man or get Carlos to change things (which isn't happening) Just seems a shame that we have wasted a whole summer... but agree we need a change! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GMOwl72 Posted August 12, 2017 Share Posted August 12, 2017 2 minutes ago, Thorpski said: Just seems a shame that we have wasted a whole summer... but agree we need a change! Deja vu! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theowlsman Posted August 12, 2017 Share Posted August 12, 2017 Wasn't always plain sailing for Alex Ferguson in the early years, but Man Utd persevered with him and see what happened 2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GMOwl72 Posted August 12, 2017 Share Posted August 12, 2017 Hat off to you - you really are a glass half full kind of guy! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theowlsman Posted August 12, 2017 Share Posted August 12, 2017 Money + quality players + patience = success He just needs to get people on side with a more positive approach. Be nice to buck a trend and have managerial stability Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quinnssweetshop Posted August 12, 2017 Share Posted August 12, 2017 Superb post Has to go, the team is falling apart, and has hung on by it's nails far too often these past two seasons, when other managers would have played these players to their strengths, he has played many in positions that baffle them ! Let alone us. Got to go, and soon, or the season will be over ten games in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Ron's Sovereign Posted August 12, 2017 Share Posted August 12, 2017 1 hour ago, paulrs said: Fully aware of starting a thread like this mid-match but even a win today wont change my mind on this; Carlos has to go, probably should have gone in the summer, and this is why - he makes the players worse. Simple as that. Can anyone name me one player that's improved significantly under his coaching? Just one. Because I can't. During Carlos's time he must have selected 50+ players and have any of them got better? The consistently good performers like Westwood, Lees, Hutchinson and Lee were already playing well under Stuart Gray. Then look at the reputations of players like Rhodes, Abdi, Reach, Matias, Jones, Winnall...even McManaman and McGeady - how poor have they all been since signing for us? Even players that were pretty good under Stuart Gray like McGugan, Nuhiu and Palmer have become bit-part players contributing little or nothing to the team during the whole of last season. How many of the successful youth and under-23 sides have got anywhere near to establishing themselves in the matchday squads despite presumably training with the first team on a regular basis? Perhaps our most promising young talent during Carlos' tenure - Joao- has gone alarmingly backwards in his development. For me this evidence is irrefutable. Our top 6 finishes are IN SPITE of Carlos, not BECAUSE of him. He's been backed hugely with transfers, has a strike force and squad depth 95% of other championship managers over the last 3 years would envy, and yet we seem further away from promotion now than we've ever been at any time under his management. Carlos said in his pre-match presser (sorry) this week that it is his job to improve the players. His exact words. Well look at the evidence - if that's his job then he is completely and utterly failing at it. Even his most successful signings - Forestieri and Bannan - have seen their level of performance deteriorate and split the fanbase as to their value to the team. I like Carlos a lot, as a guy he's a class act and I'd have loved him to be the man to take us up. But to me it's startlingly obvious that he's unable to develop the players and therefore the team, and the longer he stays the further backwards we'll go. I appreciate his tireless efforts to get us back to the Premier League over the last two years, but the harsh reality is I hope he'll be gone before the month is out. You wrote all that whilst the match was on. You didn't go then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quinnssweetshop Posted August 12, 2017 Share Posted August 12, 2017 1 minute ago, theowlsman said: Money + quality players + patience = success He just needs to get people on side with a more positive approach. Be nice to buck a trend and have managerial stability Wouldn't be so bad if the fragility within the team reared it's head once in a while. It's every game ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Athelwulf Posted August 12, 2017 Share Posted August 12, 2017 Carlos is a nice bloke, and his arrival coincided with our bringing in quality players for the first time in many years. So the Carvalhistas associate him with an upturn in results, especially in his first season, when in actual fact that probably would have occurred under someone else anyway. We're stale, and I don't think we can underestimate the effect on the playing staff of losing two consecutive play-offs. For me, we need a change. Someone with new ideas who'll play a different way. Someone for the fans and players to believe in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quinnssweetshop Posted August 12, 2017 Share Posted August 12, 2017 1 minute ago, Big Ron's Sovereign said: You wrote all that whilst the match was on. You didn't go then? And what's that got to do with it ? It's a good post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Costello 77 Posted August 12, 2017 Share Posted August 12, 2017 2 minutes ago, Big Ron's Sovereign said: You wrote all that whilst the match was on. You didn't go then? I didn't go either. It's unlikely I will this season. If you read the post he makes no mention of the game. Posting about the the game when you haven't been is a bit off imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theowlsman Posted August 12, 2017 Share Posted August 12, 2017 I don't believe that everyone does want Carlos sacked, I think most if honest, just want a return to positive football and there's a difference. If he went back to the style of play from 2 seasons ago, and it resulted in wins, everyone would be happy. Therfore, the pressure on Carlos is not necessarily a bad thing if it influences a change towards more positive football. So carry on moaning for me if it influences him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Ron's Sovereign Posted August 12, 2017 Share Posted August 12, 2017 2 minutes ago, quinnssweetshop said: And what's that got to do with it ? It's a good post. I pay good money to follow my team around the country and someone that clearly didn't go to the first home match of the season is not worth listening to IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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