Carlos clarifies Forestieri comments

[IstillhateSteveBould]

9 minutes ago, Holmowl said:

 

You miss the point.

 

Hooper, Fletch, Hooper and Winnall do score - when they play together.

 

None of them score when they play with FF. Even your Joao doesn't score, despite your much-state belief that they will tear the league a new one.

 

 

 

No, you're missing the point. None of them have shown anything to suggest they can score more than Forestieri. Not by any meaningful amount anyway. Neither as individuals or in partnerships. 

 

So none of them deserve to start ahead of him. And you ask any defender who they'd hate to play against out of that bunch of strikers.

 

Yet he's never afforded the same bullshit leeway regarding unsuitable system, unsuitable partner, and lack of service that the others get.

 

It's just blatant double standards because he's such a good player that he can also play on the wing effectively.

 

 

 

[Bing Cosby]

1 hour ago, IstillhateSteveBould said:

The only issue here is Carlos making this public.

 

I wouldn't say it's the "only issue" but for me it's certainly the most serious.

 

Everyone can argue until they are blue in the face where the player should be playing in their view; but the only thing that really matters is where the manager thinks he should be playing!!

 

Carlos has revealed in his last few interviews that his opinion on the subject is liable to change based on the player having a bit of a whinge... just think about the implications of that for a second!!

 

While I'm not naive enough to think that in this age of player power, these sorts of things must happen fairly regularly; I find it deeply worrying that not only is it going on at S6, but that Carlos seems quite happy to tell the world about it!! 

 

Lacking authority is one thing, but advertising it to the rest of the squad and the fanbase seems downright suicidal to me.

[IstillhateSteveBould]

13 minutes ago, Cosby Blunkett said:

 

I wouldn't say it's the "only issue" but for me it's certainly the most serious.

 

Everyone can argue until they are blue in the face where the player should be playing in their view; but the only thing that really matters is where the manager thinks he should be playing!!

 

Carlos has revealed in his last few interviews that his opinion on the subject is liable to change based on the player having a bit of a whinge... just think about the implications of that for a second!!

 

While I'm not naive enough to think that in this age of player power, these sorts of things must happen fairly regularly; I find it deeply worrying that not only is it going on at S6, but that Carlos seems quite happy to tell the world about it!! 

 

Lacking authority is one thing, but advertising it to the rest of the squad and the fanbase seems downright suicidal to me.

 

But "lacking authority" would suggest he didn't intend to play FF up top against Preston and changed because FF whinged.

 

How do you know he didn't intend to play FF up top in that game anyway?

 

The question he asked FF was "why did you have a bad pre season?". And FF gave an honest answer. It never said that was the reason he played FF up front. I would say its highly likely Carlos simply felt he was the best option there for that particular game.

[Holmowl]

26 minutes ago, Cosby Blunkett said:

 

I wouldn't say it's the "only issue" but for me it's certainly the most serious.

 

Everyone can argue until they are blue in the face where the player should be playing in their view; but the only thing that really matters is where the manager thinks he should be playing!!

 

Carlos has revealed in his last few interviews that his opinion on the subject is liable to change based on the player having a bit of a whinge... just think about the implications of that for a second!!

 

While I'm not naive enough to think that in this age of player power, these sorts of things must happen fairly regularly; I find it deeply worrying that not only is it going on at S6, but that Carlos seems quite happy to tell the world about it!! 

 

Lacking authority is one thing, but advertising it to the rest of the squad and the fanbase seems downright suicidal to me.

 

 

 

You suggest Carlos is swayed by FF whinging, but I'm sure Fletch and Winnall aren't shy at stating their case to play, nor Hooper.

[Bing Cosby]

15 minutes ago, IstillhateSteveBould said:

 

But "lacking authority" would suggest he didn't intend to play FF up top against Preston and changed because FF whinged.

 

How do you know he didn't intend to play FF up top in that game anyway?

 

The question he asked FF was "why did you have a bad pre season?". And FF gave an honest answer. It never said that was the reason he played FF up front. I would say its highly likely Carlos simply felt he was the best option there for that particular game.

 

I genuinely hope you a right.

 

But surely in that case a simple "I played him where I thought he was most effective" would have sufficed?

 

 

[Earlsfieldowl]

5 hours ago, A12owl said:

Could Fessi be fitted into a 4-3-1-2 by playing behind a front 2 of any two of our 4 main strikers. (Hooper,Fletcher,Winnall,Rhodes.

Midfield of 3 out of 

Jones,Abdi,Lee,Bannan,Wallace,Boyd,

Hutch. Perhaps need a Midfield Beast many are suggesting.

Back 4 from 

Reach,Fox,Lee's,Loosens,Hunt,Hutch.

 + A N Other

It would need quality attacking full backs which we possibly don't have. 

Perhaps we are short of 3 decent players for this tactic. 2 wing backs and The Beast in midfield.

Just a thought.

 

 

He is a winger and should be told to play there - this is the problem, CC won't do it.

 

The manager decides the team and where the players play..once players start dictating where they go the whole system unravels.

 

the team set up has to work and you can't accommodate everyone - the more complex the formation gets the less likely it is to work.  It's a simple game.

 

Basically it's a mess at the moment and DC has to take some responsibility for letting it get to this point - far too many players and CC can't manage them

Edited August 8, 2017 by Earlsfieldowl

[Bing Cosby]

5 minutes ago, Holmowl said:

 

 

 

You suggest Carlos is swayed by FF whinging, but I'm sure Fletch and Winnall aren't shy at stating their case to play, nor Hooper.

 

I'm absolutely sure they are all doing the proverbial knocking on the managers door, as any player not getting game time should be.

 

But do you think if Hooper fancied a game in central midfield (a position we have plenty of players better suited to) he'd get a game?

[woodys]

1 minute ago, Cosby Blunkett said:

 

I'm absolutely sure they are all doing the proverbial knocking on the managers door, as any player not getting game time should be.

 

But do you think if Hooper fancied a game in central midfield (a position we have plenty of players better suited to) he'd get a game?

i'd put my last quid on no player at Wednesday being able to tell our manager/coach what to do. IMo Carlos just faniced him over his other options for that role saturday and lets be honest if he'd scored most of these threads and posts wouldnt even exist

[torryowl]

I don't like FF upfront but if he is going to play there then more worrying for me is that reach is the only left winger we have and I don't see him providing many bullets for Rhodes or whoever partners FF to fire .......I really don't understand the thinking of playing him upfront ,playing on the left he'll get a good quota of goals and will also provide for the 2 strikers summat reach or anyone else wont do .

[ItsAGrumbleFromImre]

Fessi might be able to play centrally in a free role just behind a front 2 in a 4 3 3 or 3 5 2 etc but never in a 4 4 2 - selecting him up front for both Huddersfield play off games was a massive mistake and disrupted the team that won 6 on the bounce (Fessi was also totally ineffective against Hull in the play off final).  The reason Owlstalk is up in arms is Carlos is not learning from his mistakes, just digging a deeper hole for himself.  His public comments on this issue also show terrible judgement, similar to his statement about 'we can't play 3 - 5 - 2 because you need top class defenders' - How do these comments make our current centre halves feel? - takes me back to Trevor Francis' team talks waxing lyrical about opposition strikers and wishing we had such quality! - plus I wasn't aware that Franco Baresi, Marcus Desailly and Sergio Ramos were playing for Sheffield United.

 

This is in no way meant to be criticism of FF - when he's fit and firing and managed better by a new Coach who picks a formation to suit the players at his disposal, we might get our best player back!

Edited August 8, 2017 by ItsAGrumbleFromImre
typo

[IstillhateSteveBould]

8 minutes ago, ItsAGrumbleFromImre said:

Fessi might be able to play centrally in a free role just behind a front 2 in a 4 3 3 or 3 5 2 etc but never in a 4 4 2 - selecting him up front for both Huddersfield play off games was a massive mistake and disrupted the team that won 6 on the bounce (Fessi was also totally ineffective against Hull in the play off final).  The reason Owlstalk is up in arms is Carlos is not learning from his mistakes, just digging a deeper hole for himself.  His public comments on this issue also show terrible judgement, similar to his statement about 'we can't play 3 - 5 - 2 because you need top class defenders' - How do these comments make our current centre halves feel? - takes me back to Trevor Francis' team talks waxing lyrical about opposition strikers and wishing we had such quality! - plus I wasn't aware that Franco Baresi, Marcus Desailly and Sergio Ramos were playing for Sheffield United.

 

This is in no way meant to be criticism of FF - when he's fit and firing and managed better by a new Coach who picks a formation to suit the players at his disposal, we might get our best player back!

 

Remind me who played upfront home and away against Huddersfield in the league?

 

And scored in both. 

 

[trevdi9]

not great management is it , letting a player dictate to where he plays, inclusive of him being no where near a striker , whats the betting the real strikers are just going to love this  top shout by Carlos to create harmony in the team , NOT

[Guest]

2 hours ago, IstillhateSteveBould said:

 

But "lacking authority" would suggest he didn't intend to play FF up top against Preston and changed because FF whinged.

 

How do you know he didn't intend to play FF up top in that game anyway?

 

The question he asked FF was "why did you have a bad pre season?". And FF gave an honest answer. It never said that was the reason he played FF up front. I would say its highly likely Carlos simply felt he was the best option there for that particular game.

 

He was wrong if that was the case.

[IstillhateSteveBould]

2 minutes ago, hirstyboywonder said:

 

He was wrong if that was the case.

 

I thought he was the best of a bad bunch personally.

 

If anything he was wrong to pick Rhodes, who may as well have been stood with me.

[ItsAGrumbleFromImre]

5 minutes ago, IstillhateSteveBould said:

 

Remind me who played upfront home and away against Huddersfield in the league?

 

And scored in both. 

 

 

You make on overwhelming case - his total failure playing up front in the 3 big matches when it counted, plus all the stats back up we are more effective when he doesn't play up front versus a penalty and a tap in that was made by McManaman (and both games we were lucky to win, typical of last season's performances).

[sonofbert2]

It is a very difficult job and a fine balancing act keeping unselected players hungry for games and selected players motivated to keep their place.

 

Hooper's comment was definitely a dig at this situation and he obviously feels that FF is getting to influence where he plays as well as playing whilst he sits it out watching someone play in "his" position.

 

All this time and effort and words given to one player just supports his perceived importance on all sides.

 

CC needs to stop answering questions re. specific players in the short-term and rehearse some glib, robotic answer to reinforce this to the press pack.

 

He also needs to give a very last chance to some of the "first names" and reinforce it with changes if they don't deliver.

 

They have had enough chances to right wrongs and there are other options if required.  Time to be a bit braver on all fronts.

[IstillhateSteveBould]

1 minute ago, ItsAGrumbleFromImre said:

 

You make on overwhelming case - his total failure playing up front in the 3 big matches when it counted, plus all the stats back up we are more effective when he doesn't play up front versus a penalty and a tap in that was made by McManaman (and both games we were lucky to win, typical of last season's performances).

 

But we won? And he scored in both. He was outstanding in the home game. 

 

So bearing that in mind, I'm struggling to understand why Carlos wouldn't start him up front in a play off against the same team, and how you can possibly single him out as the reason we didn't win.

 

And if we were lucky to beat them, you could say they were extremely lucky to beat us on penalties. 

[Guest]

4 minutes ago, IstillhateSteveBould said:

 

I thought he was the best of a bad bunch personally.

 

If anything he was wrong to pick Rhodes, who may as well have been stood with me.

 

No one with any football knowledge has ever said Rhodes will be consistently effective if you don't consistently get a supply line into the box. There is no point playing him if we don't play to his strengths. 

As ineffective as Rhodes was, it hardly got any better when he went off did it. 

Fernando was as lively as anyone but some would argue his best moments came when he drifted left and was able to run at defenders.

 

I would rather give him a free role from the left cutting in for games we expect to win and let our midfielders who don't get beyond the halfway line anyway cover the defensive duties. Other that or play him as part of a 3 which looks unlikely to happen under Carlos. 

[Anlaby Owl]

8 hours ago, Almat said:

 

You'd have to be an extreme supporter of Carlos to see this any other way than he's pandered to FF and to the detriment of not only the way we play but also team morale. The bloke has seriously lost the plot. DC needs to step in sharpish...

this is exactly how I see the situation and I'm afraid I'm on the verge of joining the 'carlos out' brigade.

[ItsAGrumbleFromImre]

6 minutes ago, IstillhateSteveBould said:

 

But we won? And he scored in both. He was outstanding in the home game. 

 

So bearing that in mind, I'm struggling to understand why Carlos wouldn't start him up front in a play off against the same team, and how you can possibly single him out as the reason we didn't win.

 

And if we were lucky to beat them, you could say they were extremely lucky to beat us on penalties. 

 

The second goal, welcome as it was was in the dieing moments of the game but to be fair I think he played OK in both matches - I am not an FF basher either as an individual or a player - I just think when playing as a front 2 it is to the detriment of the team.  For the other striker I think he must be a difficult strike partner - in both play off games versus Huddersfield he always seemed way too far away from Rhodes / Fletcher to even given them a chance of developing a partnership.  By all accounts he was one of the better players last Saturday so credit to him for effort.   Most of us don't want to drive him out of the club, we just want to see him in what we think is his best position.