Guest Posted August 7, 2017 Share Posted August 7, 2017 10 minutes ago, g-owls said: That statement says nothing. What's happening next summer if we fail to get promotion this season? All we've heard is promotion this, promotion that and spending whatever is necessary. So what happens if we don't go up? Is there a plan B and how do we stabilise without selling off our best assets on the cheap? Big decisions will have to be made according to the Chairman himself. Right now I've a feeling that every egg has been chucked into one basket in the belief that we'll get promoted when the harsh reality is that half the division have the same ambitions, plenty of them with the resources to match the ones we've already spent two years wasting. Neg away all you like, if indeed you feel the need but think about what happened at Forest. Rich owners who wanted to be hands on that spent, spent and spent some more but ultimately paid the price for both underestimating fans loyalty and the competitive nature of the Championship. I don't suggest for one minute that people throw abuse Chansiri's way but I'm keeping cautious as to what the real effect of our mad spending will be come next may if we're still at this level. I've said since he took over that if we don't manage it in 3 seasons the cycle could come to an end and we will have more of a struggle to get close to promotion. The continued spending can't be sustainable without promotion. It just seems that's the way football is now, clubs gamble on getting promotion for the riches that brings for as long as is possible under the FFP or P&S rules, which is usually a maximum of 3 seasons. How many clubs in this division in recent years have managed to sustain a promotion challenge for longer than 3 seasons without being successful? Not saying it's right but it seems increasingly like the only way of contesting for promotion. We would all like to do it the way Huddersfield have but I don't think any of us expected them to get promoted 12 months ago, it was literally a dream come true for them. Of course as more and more clubs spend big on the dream - us, Forest, Derby, now Wolves and with the 3 that come down every season have far more funds, the chances of success decrease and some will suffer. I fear we signed players down to long contracts with the vision that at least we might recoup some fees if things don't go to plan inside 3 seasons. Of course that can backfire as well if players comfortable on their contracts choose not to leave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest hk_owl Posted August 8, 2017 Share Posted August 8, 2017 When I was a lad, I remember listening to the match on the radio and wishing that my old man had enough money to take us both. Sometimes I'd get the bus to Hillsborough on a match day, soak up the atmosphere, have a look around the shop and come home again. Football was a luxury. Is a luxury. Some people can't afford it. I couldn't, but I could afford the bus fare. The key is to make as much money from as many people as possible. If they can't afford a season ticket, can you sell them a half-season ticket? What about a cup ticket? A match ticket? A £10 match ticket? A weekly draw to buy a match ticket for £5? If they can't afford a replica shirt can you sell them a training shirt? A polo shirt? A tshirt? A tea towel? A sticker? If we can't afford salmon, at least sell us a tin of tuna. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Almat Posted August 8, 2017 Share Posted August 8, 2017 6 hours ago, Bodhidharma said: Chansiri is clearly a very savvy business man. However I don't think he is a savvy football man. He has been inefficient with his spending and badly advised in my opinion. I don't know who devised the transfer policy but it's been misguided. Maybe not the individual deals and how they were conducted, but the types of players and their suitability to the team. The squad is now bloated and we have many brilliant players who have never even had a look in and others who are on the perifery. McGugan McGeady McMannaman Buckley Abdi Urby Winnal Fox Matias Joao Rhodes Over 20 million worth of talent. Wasted. Top post and I agree 100%. CC will look back on this period as the time he had the best chairman he's ever had with regards to indulging him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Almat Posted August 8, 2017 Share Posted August 8, 2017 5 hours ago, Ash76 said: We'll see how good he is this year. I'd suggest the difference between Wagner and Carlos though is that the former has more of an influence over recruitment No, he's just a much better man manager. Simple, really... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wednesday_Jack Posted August 8, 2017 Share Posted August 8, 2017 8 hours ago, Left-footed Filth said: Excellent stuff. Saying all the things you'd like the chairman to say. Now DC you've put the cash in do the right thing and sack the clown who's 'coaching' the team and get someone in who is worthy of all your commitment Thats the top and bottom of it...£30m spent and currently £30m been wasted!! A different manager would make a better go with what we have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
handworth52 Posted August 8, 2017 Share Posted August 8, 2017 8 hours ago, Bodhidharma said: Chansiri is clearly a very savvy business man. However I don't think he is a savvy football man. He has been inefficient with his spending and badly advised in my opinion. I don't know who devised the transfer policy but it's been misguided. Maybe not the individual deals and how they were conducted, but the types of players and their suitability to the team. The squad is now bloated and we have many brilliant players who have never even had a look in and others who are on the perifery. McGugan McGeady McMannaman Buckley Abdi Urby Winnal Fox Matias Joao Rhodes Over 20 million worth of talent. Wasted. Top post , you also can add to that list of players regarding poor recruitment the contracts handed out . Ie giving an ageing/injury prone loovens a 3 yr deal nuhiu 3 yr etc etc we all raised eyebrows when we heard that. Once he bought us he should have got in a man to do requirement ,our transfer policy is a disaster .we heading for ffp cause revenue will fall this season due to the tripe on pitch .and charging us £60 for kids shirts is not on or the way to go about things ,we already are the dearest club to support in the championship, fleecing us for more and more money just so we can sign yet another ageing has been on 20k plus a wk no thanks . Start signing hungry younger players and build for future ,this mad rush for premier league money is sending us over cliff with this 25 million wage bill of ageing / unsellable players on huge contracts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bring Back Beni Posted August 8, 2017 Share Posted August 8, 2017 Just back the team and let's get our season going rather than looking for negatives. We are the twelve man this year and without our support there won't be any promotion 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonnyowl Posted August 8, 2017 Share Posted August 8, 2017 I do wonder if one if the consequences of FFP, or PS as it is now, is increased prices for the fans. For me the only problem with FFP is the amount that owners can invest. Surley an owner should be able to invest whatever they want! If everyone gets paid and no one else is owed any money what's the problem? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
just visiting Posted August 8, 2017 Share Posted August 8, 2017 9 hours ago, RUMBELOWS91 said: How many boxes do we have? 20? Hes put about £14k on the price I think- sell them all at the new price and we net an extra £280k per year. Leta say we make an extra £15 per shirt now we're making them 'in house'. If we sell 5000 shirts that's an extra £75k So there's 2 big bones of contention there, that have managed to pisss a lot of people off for the sake of £355k a year, or to put it another way, Fletcher's wagers between now and Christmas. Worth it? I hope your owner doesn't read that. Of course it's worth it. It's £355k less he has to cover so effectively it's worth £710k to him. Everything above and beyond what you currently raise, match day and non match day, is worth double to him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
@owlstalk Posted August 8, 2017 Share Posted August 8, 2017 Ageing squads on high wages have cost many clubs badly in the past including us Owlstalk Shop Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 8, 2017 Share Posted August 8, 2017 where does 25 million wage bill come from Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Kameron Posted August 8, 2017 Share Posted August 8, 2017 In other words DC had a pot of money which looks to be around 100 million. After buying the club and two years worth of funding players wages and fees he's obviously running out of cash fast. No fault of his own but had he had a better choice of manager and player recruitment he'd have acchieved promotion within his target of two seasons. We simply cannot afford to compete with sides who are receiving inflated parachute payments and will be left treading water like Derby, he needs to get some proper advice from people who know the game before we end up like a Blackburn or Forest, he can't charge what he does whilst the product is wee wee poor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mountain Owl Posted August 8, 2017 Share Posted August 8, 2017 8 minutes ago, dan1980 said: where does 25 million wage bill come from Work it out. Half the team are on or about 30k a week snd the rest of the squad 15k to 20k a week that includes McGugan who will not play this season but will cost us another 750k. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
owls101 Posted August 8, 2017 Share Posted August 8, 2017 4 minutes ago, Kameron said: In other words DC had a pot of money which looks to be around 100 million. After buying the club and two years worth of funding players wages and fees he's obviously running out of cash fast. No fault of his own but had he had a better choice of manager and player recruitment he'd have acchieved promotion within his target of two seasons. We simply cannot afford to compete with sides who are receiving inflated parachute payments and will be left treading water like Derby, he needs to get some proper advice from people who know the game before we end up like a Blackburn or Forest, he can't charge what he does whilst the product is wee wee poor. Being close to FFP limit and running out of cash are two very different things. From the statement we are in the former position. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest mkowl Posted August 8, 2017 Share Posted August 8, 2017 I don't think many on this thread are slating DC but there is questioning of the statement. There would be more empathy if 1) the players wages is by far the largest outlay and when the squad as 6-10 hangers on that cost a lot but contribute little then there is an annoyance. P &S has two sides to the equation it equals Revenue - Costs. In any other business you would look at your costs probably before anything else. I reckon you could trim £4m off the wage bill and it not be detrimental. Or that is 4m you could spend on your core 24 man squad that is actually needed 2) I do grasp the fact that historically the corporate side was not generating sufficient profit. Profit not revenue is the key term here. However the price rises are so great that from what people say there are no takers. Still making no profit but I guess you know it's not making a loss. I do think the trick being missed is a halfway house approach to pricing. Get it a "must do" status and I just think there might be fringe benefits on sponsorship, using the facilities on non match days. Once you have willing customers then you could nudge up prices. At the moment business folk who make these decisions see PL clubs as better value or complete alternatives such as Donny races as preferable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 8, 2017 Share Posted August 8, 2017 Just now, Mountain Owl said: Work it out. Half the team are on or about 30k a week snd the rest of the squad 15k to 20k a week that includes McGugan who will not play this season but will cost us another 750k. Not a chance half the team on 30 k a week .and your also saying players like palmer on 20 k nobody got a clue wat wages players on including you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
owls101 Posted August 8, 2017 Share Posted August 8, 2017 Hopefully DC will take the long term view and invest in the academy and scouting. As far As I'm aware they aren't covered by FFP? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
torres Posted August 8, 2017 Share Posted August 8, 2017 10 hours ago, gurujuan said: So is he responsible for recruiting all our Scotland B Listers? DC has been let down by many areas apart from the supporters in my opinion. Last 3 seasons we have bought season tickets in record numbers - that's all we can do. The commercial side, was and still is a farce, this year, with it being our 150th year, it's been an embarrassment The recruitment side has been poor 70% of the time and this is where the pit of money has been wasted. I'm glad there is finally some communication between club and supporters, but bringing up an extortionate pricing scheme as the way forward seems a little short sighted to me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoffrey Posted August 8, 2017 Share Posted August 8, 2017 10 hours ago, Steevo said: Sell a lot more shirts if they were striped. We'd sell more if any were available for sale. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest mkowl Posted August 8, 2017 Share Posted August 8, 2017 1 minute ago, dan1980 said: Not a chance half the team on 30 k a week .and your also saying players like palmer on 20 k nobody got a clue wat wages players on including you You would be surprised. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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