Jump to content

George Hirst


Recommended Posts

31 minutes ago, dumboldowl said:

If we were to loan young George to a third or fourth division side he would be the target of every part time chopper in the game.  Leave him where he is ffs.

 

That's lower league football in general mate. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, DuttyTeabags said:

Nuhui defo plus lose one of Winnall or Rhodes or morph them into one player of identical abilities - oh, they already are! (identical mid-paced 5ft 11 fox in the box finishers), I can see now why we spunked £9.5m on the pair of them.

 

If we're not going to flog Rhodes then we need to flog Winnall (and Nuhui) and spend the cash on a CB sharpish.  The only saving grace is that Winnall should be able to turn a tidy profit (we could sell for £2.5m?) but the downside is that Winnall 2017 is actually a better player than Rhodes 2017.

 

Hirst should 5th striker behind Joao (pace and unpredictability), Hooper (linkman + finisher), Winnall (mobility and fox int box), Fletcher (can do a job away from home, decent target).

 

That means he should have travelled with us to Portugal, Donny etc. to be integrated into first team.  As it is we took an overpriced muffin and a donkey instead.

 

This is pretty accurate.

 

Id get rid of Winnall and Fletcher, not as there bad players I just think they in Winnalls case are too similar to Rhodes and Fletcher doesn't suit how we play. If Nuhiu is happy to come on and kill a game for 20 mins then keep him and get rid of Fletch.

 

Hirst Joao FF Rhodes Hooper and Nuhiu is a good pool !

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, StudentOwl said:

And almost all footballers when played too often too young peak in their mid-20s

Rooney has arguably regressed since he was 26

Owen was past it by the time he was 29

 

Just because you quote the second best player in the world, who also happens to be one of the most athletic players in the world, has played regular football in the less physical Spanish League since moving there (note, early indications are he may be past his peak if you look at his goals and assists over the years), doesn't mean it's OK. Once again we're back to this argument, but Owen has said he was given too much footie too soon and that ruined his long-term career. 

 

I don't understand why people think he's ready for first team football, and then point out players like Owen, Ronaldo and Rashford as 'evidence'. All three of these players had a physicality beyond their years as well as the technical ability at a young age. George Hirst is not blessed with the pace these players had at this age, and he's not blessed with the strength of say Rashford or Rooney. Because of these attributes, the players you're listing as evidence that he should be thrown in did well. Hirst lacks these attributes currently... if anything citing Rooney, Ronaldo etc is actually evidence against him being thrown into the first team.

 

People are hoping rather than applying common sense and logic. Be objective, not hopeful. 

 

That's nonsense.

So by that logic, if Ronaldo hadn't started playing so much football until he was 21, he'd be better now?

And for the record im not comparing Hirst to Rooney or Rashford, im saying playing football at his age isn't going to hurt him.

 

You do realise every pro footballer will be playing everyday whether or not it's in the first team.

 

Some players are injury prone, some aren't. Some players regress at a younger age, some don't.

It's all down to the individual player.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, Bradshaw said:

 

That's nonsense.

So by that logic, if Ronaldo hadn't started playing so much football until he was 21, he'd be better now?

And for the record im not comparing Hirst to Rooney or Rashford, im saying playing football at his age isn't going to hurt him.

 

You do realise every pro footballer will be playing everyday whether or not it's in the first team.

 

Some players are injury prone, some aren't. Some players regress at a younger age, some don't.

It's all down to the individual player.

No-one's arguing against that, it's why I'm all for him either being loaned out or kept here but selling Nuhiu and Joao to make him behind the pool of Rhodes, Winnall, Fletcher and Hooper (and sometimes FF). 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, StudentOwl said:

And almost all footballers when played too often too young peak in their mid-20s

Rooney has arguably regressed since he was 26

Owen was past it by the time he was 29

 

Just because you quote the second best player in the world, who also happens to be one of the most athletic players in the world, has played regular football in the less physical Spanish League since moving there (note, early indications are he may be past his peak if you look at his goals and assists over the years), doesn't mean it's OK. Once again we're back to this argument, but Owen has said he was given too much footie too soon and that ruined his long-term career. 

 

I don't understand why people think he's ready for first team football, and then point out players like Owen, Ronaldo and Rashford as 'evidence'. All three of these players had a physicality beyond their years as well as the technical ability at a young age. George Hirst is not blessed with the pace these players had at this age, and he's not blessed with the strength of say Rashford or Rooney. Because of these attributes, the players you're listing as evidence that he should be thrown in did well. Hirst lacks these attributes currently... if anything citing Rooney, Ronaldo etc is actually evidence against him being thrown into the first team.

 

People are hoping rather than applying common sense and logic. Be objective, not hopeful. 

Michael Owen was past it a long time before 29.  That was when he signed for Man Utd.  He arguably peaked in 2001 when he was European Footballer of the Year, scored the hat trick v Germany and the goal in the FA Cup Final.  Most of that year he was 21.  After that the hamstrings started going and then he moved to Madrid and Newcastle.  Those with a lot of football in their teens do tend to peak early.  Ryan Giggs an exception to the rule.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 minutes ago, Etchesketch said:

Michael Owen was past it a long time before 29.  That was when he signed for Man Utd.  He arguably peaked in 2001 when he was European Footballer of the Year, scored the hat trick v Germany and the goal in the FA Cup Final.  Most of that year he was 21.  After that the hamstrings started going and then he moved to Madrid and Newcastle.  Those with a lot of football in their teens do tend to peak early.  Ryan Giggs an exception to the rule.

It's cos Ryan Giggs had African hamstrings.  True story

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Brahim Diaz - aged 17 - scored last night in Man city' 4-1 win over Real Madrid in front of 93,000. Nuff said! 

And some on here would prefer to have him (Hirst) play lower league football instead of being with our first team?!?! Yet the interest in the player is coming from PL teams like Everton and Leicester ? I struggle to comprehend. How would those same people feel if he left and joined a PL team then started scoring for laughs ?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

40 minutes ago, Reallondonowl said:

Brahim Diaz - aged 17 - scored last night in Man city' 4-1 win over Real Madrid in front of 93,000. Nuff said! 

And some on here would prefer to have him (Hirst) play lower league football instead of being with our first team?!?! Yet the interest in the player is coming from PL teams like Everton and Leicester ? I struggle to comprehend. How would those same people feel if he left and joined a PL team then started scoring for laughs ?

And how would you feel if we started him for the first 5-10 games of the season and he had a dry spell completely? Not only have we all but ballsed up our promotion chances but we've also crushed his confidence and Carlos would get the sack and made a mockery of for playing a young lad ahead of proven Championship strikers.

 

I'm a young lad myself and i'm all for giving youth chances, but you have to pick your moments as a coach and CC is under a lot of pressure to get promotion this season. It's a very difficult situation to handle as very few people know what has been said or how his development is but it has to be carefully monitored,  not just chucked in.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

carlos lives or dies on results and i'm pretty sure if he thought hirst could win him more games then he'd be in the side ...it's crazy to say get rid of fletch,winnall,dave  and play hirst when they are obviously better players .

Link to comment
Share on other sites

17 minutes ago, torryowl said:

carlos lives or dies on results and i'm pretty sure if he thought hirst could win him more games then he'd be in the side ...it's crazy to say get rid of fletch,winnall,dave  and play hirst when they are obviously better players .

Big Dave a better player than Hirst ? I sincerely hope not.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

46 minutes ago, Oliver Read said:

And how would you feel if we started him for the first 5-10 games of the season and he had a dry spell completely? Not only have we all but ballsed up our promotion chances but we've also crushed his confidence and Carlos would get the sack and made a mockery of for playing a young lad ahead of proven Championship strikers.

 

I'm a young lad myself and i'm all for giving youth chances, but you have to pick your moments as a coach and CC is under a lot of pressure to get promotion this season. It's a very difficult situation to handle as very few people know what has been said or how his development is but it has to be carefully monitored,  not just chucked in.

Not sure when I said starting him. I would have him on the bench and give him 20 minutes at the end of a couple games to see how he gets on and take it easy. If you remember at the end of last season when Fletch or others had run themselves onto reserve tank and up pops Big Dave as sub. Would prefer to be giving Hirst a run out personally. Then see how things go.

I won't comment on the rest of your post as it is all based on the misconception that I was planning on "chucking him in". :manager:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 minutes ago, Reallondonowl said:

Not sure when I said starting him. I would have him on the bench and give him 20 minutes at the end of a couple games to see how he gets on and take it easy. If you remember at the end of last season when Fletch or others had run themselves onto reserve tank and up pops Big Dave as sub. Would prefer to be giving Hirst a run out personally. Then see how things go.

I won't comment on the rest of your post as it is all based on the misconception that I was planning on "chucking him in". :manager:

Sorry, I'm a bit useless on this site. :laugh: Only the top part of the message was really directed to you. 

 

I was referring to alot of other posters who were talking about starting him straight away and "chucking him in" the deep end. I agree with what you say about how we should be introducing him in, keeping it steady and see how he gets on. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

20 hours ago, oh_weds_we_love_you said:

 

His pals in the England squad are reportedly on around £10k a week as they're at Premier League clubs.

 

Hirsty's argument will be he can get that cash too if he moves clubs.

 

Big decision for the club - pay him what his peers earn and keep him, but probably p*ss senior players off who aren't even paid that. Or pay him a salary any other 18yo prospect in the Championship would get and risk losing him.

 

Hoping the answer is somewhere in between cos paying a kid £10k a week at our level is bonkers!!

 

10k/week shouldn't be a problem given the fact McGugan is reportedly on 16k/week and hasn't even got a squad number....

Link to comment
Share on other sites

15 hours ago, David1867 said:

kylian mbappe is only 18 and is about to have a world record transfer fee paid for him, with £200k+ a week wages. 

 

Marcus Rashford to name another. 

 

We will never know how good he is unless he's given a chance. I guarantee one thing, he will score more than Joao or Nuhiu. Yes I have also seen him

play quite a few times. 

 

Precisely this. I remember reading Rashford a couple of seasons ago was behind the lad Barnsley got on loan in the Manure pecking order. Bit of an injury crisis ensues, they chuck Rashford in and the rest is history...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, torryowl said:

carlos lives or dies on results and i'm pretty sure if he thought hirst could win him more games then he'd be in the side ...it's crazy to say get rid of fletch,winnall,dave  and play hirst when they are obviously better players .

 

Not really. The catastrophic loss against Udders hasn't stopped DC re-signing him. Don't ever forget him bringing Big Dave off the bench (with Winnall still sat on it) when we desperately needed a goal late in the game. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

44 minutes ago, dumboldowl said:

If we were to loan young George to a third or fourth division side he would be the target of every part time chopper in the game.  Leave him where he is ffs.

Maybe but that is part of toughening him up. Do you seriously think he won't get roughed up in the Championship? It might be more subtle but he will still get clattered. No defender at Championship level is going to let a young lad go past him without checking out if he's going to bottle it if he gets banged about a bit.

 

I seriously hope Hirst is a wonderkid but last season he didn't appear ready for first team duties. At his age a player can come on a lot in a year, no harm in sending him out on loan to see if he's ready. If he is he can come back and score the goals that get us promoted.

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, Almat said:

 

Not really. The catastrophic loss against Udders hasn't stopped DC re-signing him. Don't ever forget him bringing Big Dave off the bench (with Winnall still sat on it) when we desperately needed a goal late in the game. 

Are you sure we desperately needed a goal? Maybe Carlos decided we would be better making sure we didn't concede again and that he thought we would win on penalties. We weren't the best team in that game.

Without being inside Carlos's head we will never know.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
×
×
  • Create New...