ramone Posted May 19, 2017 Share Posted May 19, 2017 Just now, Dagmeister said: Needn't be the case. Some managers/coaches are adept at maximising current resources. It should not be a given that a new man can dismantle totally what is already there. I'm certain that DC would impress this upon a new man if there is a change. I personally think that it was style rather than luck that had the biggest impact this season. I'm 60/40 in favour of a change so wouldn't be distraught if CC remained but I'd expect a change in style/approach/tactics. Do you not think the style of play was a result of a culmination of things: We realised where we faltered last season, looked at Boro and Burnley and realised they both had good foundations and built around that We had big injuries to key players (Hooper, Lee, Abdi etc) We were a bigger fish this season so teams set up against us differently You very rarely see though, these days, managers not tearing up the team and not wanting to put their own stamp on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRADDO Posted May 19, 2017 Share Posted May 19, 2017 4 hours ago, Mishowl said: The problem for me is: The aim was promotion and we failed. We are as boring to watch now as we were under Grey. Millions and millions wasted on bang average players that are on long contracts and are in the twilight of their careers. Far too heavily reliant, given the money spent, on the squad Grey put together on a shoestring. Failure to address the obvious weaknesses in the squad. No balance to the side. Insisting on playing certain players regardless of formation resulting in square pegs in round holes. Refusal, on the face of it at least, to give other players a chance. I don't believe CC will take us up. Maybe I'm a moaner or baybe I just view what is success differently to others. I'm a supporter of Carlos but I really can't disagree with what you've said here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramone Posted May 19, 2017 Share Posted May 19, 2017 2 minutes ago, torryowl said: the rovrum pen was blatant ......but i'd agree I don't think we can put how our season panned out down to bad luck .... Me neither by the way. But it was certainly a factor. I think of a few decisions though that didn't go our way to counter that argument: Handball at Derby Forestieri pen v Burton at home Sending off at Brentford Penalty incident at Villa FF pen v Brighton - That goes in we win the game I'm sure there's way more Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramone Posted May 19, 2017 Share Posted May 19, 2017 2 minutes ago, steveger said: We had talented players sat on their arses not doing owt and being overlooked for whatever reasons by Carlos, we have a huge squad Fair point. I assume you;re talking about Abdi here more than anyone? He's the only one I can really point at thats sat on his arse and been overlooked. But sometimes, signings dont work. Its a shame he was a our stellar signing. It happens everywhere. Man Utd spent 60 million on Di Maria, he was garbage. Falcao at both Chelsea and Man Utd, garbage. I cant really think of anyone else though to be honest? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Almat Posted May 19, 2017 Share Posted May 19, 2017 (edited) 6 minutes ago, steveger said: We had talented players sat on their arses not doing owt and being overlooked for whatever reasons by Carlos, we have a huge squad This. The whole point of spending big on a large squad is to negate the effect of injuries. Like I said earlier, we have a whole bunch of very highly paid players who have effectively been frozen out by CC EVEN WHEN the injury list started to lengthen. It comes down to making decisions in high pressure situations and in that area I do believe CC has been found wanting this season, culminating in his ridiculous decision to bring Big Dave on instead of Winnall when we needed a goal late in the PO game. Seriously, how can anyone with more than nil functioning brain cells condone that action? Edited May 19, 2017 by Almat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChinaOwl Posted May 19, 2017 Share Posted May 19, 2017 Just now, steveger said: we had plenty of luck I think so too. That is the argument against the ultra negative, win 1-0 approach. Sometimes luck is the only reason you get away with it and, if that luck turns, it results in bags full of needless lost points. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
torryowl Posted May 19, 2017 Share Posted May 19, 2017 3 minutes ago, ramone said: Me neither by the way. But it was certainly a factor. I think of a few decisions though that didn't go our way to counter that argument: Handball at Derby Forestieri pen v Burton at home Sending off at Brentford Penalty incident at Villa FF pen v Brighton - That goes in we win the game I'm sure there's way more it evens it self out over a season and I certainly don't think you can call missing a pen bad luck ..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aeroswfc Posted May 19, 2017 Share Posted May 19, 2017 There isn't any problem with the moaners. It doesn't matter what Wednesday do. They'll just cry moan and biitch anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramone Posted May 19, 2017 Share Posted May 19, 2017 Just now, torryowl said: it evens it self out over a season and I certainly don't think you can call missing a pen bad luck ..... Its a game/season changer. That goes in and we win the game and we're 4 points behind Brighton. Bad luck/mis-fortune - Its all the same thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChinaOwl Posted May 19, 2017 Share Posted May 19, 2017 Just now, ramone said: Its a game/season changer. That goes in and we win the game and we're 4 points behind Brighton. Bad luck/mis-fortune - Its all the same thing. So by your own argument, the missed Forest penalty was luck coming our way? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dagmeister Posted May 19, 2017 Share Posted May 19, 2017 (edited) 16 minutes ago, ramone said: Do you not think the style of play was a result of a culmination of things: We realised where we faltered last season, looked at Boro and Burnley and realised they both had good foundations and built around that We had big injuries to key players (Hooper, Lee, Abdi etc) We were a bigger fish this season so teams set up against us differently You very rarely see though, these days, managers not tearing up the team and not wanting to put their own stamp on it. There is something in all that I agree BUT; In this case recruitment was baffling; but already done to death. .Lee a big miss. Indications pre-injury was that CC did not necessarily see Abdi as a key player in his system. Hooper returned for a great cameo; an undoubted talent and showed what he's about when he gets in good shape (which he sometimes hasn't been) Something in this probably but IMO it was how we set up in general that was the key driver. Pre-injury Abdi, Rhodes, Winnall and possibly even McGugan and Buckley are talents that IMO have not been effectively employed. PS. Good respectful debating. Thanks. Edited May 19, 2017 by Dagmeister Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramone Posted May 19, 2017 Share Posted May 19, 2017 Just now, ChinaOwl said: So by your own argument, the missed Forest penalty was luck coming our way? Just discussing the fine margins. I'm not pointing every penalty miss. I was merely pointing our a pivotal moment in our season that if it goes the other way, it could have had a different bearing on the season... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChinaOwl Posted May 19, 2017 Share Posted May 19, 2017 Just now, ramone said: Just discussing the fine margins. I'm not pointing every penalty miss. I was merely pointing our a pivotal moment in our season that if it goes the other way, it could have had a different bearing on the season... Of course, that has always been the case and always will. Every season, without exception, you can pick out certain key incidents that had a deep impact on the outcome of the campaign. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramone Posted May 19, 2017 Share Posted May 19, 2017 1 minute ago, Dagmeister said: There is something in all that I agree BUT; In this case recruitment was baffling; but already done to death. .Lee a big miss. Indications pre-injury was that CC did not necessarily see Abdi as a key player in his system. Hooper returned for a great cameo; an undoubted talent and showed what he's about when he gets in good shape (which he sometimes hasn't been) Something in this probably but IMO it was how we set up in general that was the key driver. Pre-injury Abdi, Rhodes, Winnall and possibly even McGugan and Buckley are talents that IMO have not been effectively employed. The under-use of Buckley/McManaman was baffling. Completely agree with you there. Should have been utilised more. Especially given we never got a tune our of Adam Reach all season. Having these 2 sat on the bench was bizarre. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramone Posted May 19, 2017 Share Posted May 19, 2017 Just now, ChinaOwl said: Of course, that has always been the case and always will. Every season, without exception, you can pick out certain key incidents that had a deep impact on the outcome of the campaign. So you'd agree that, with a bit of luck v Brighton, our season could have been different... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChinaOwl Posted May 19, 2017 Share Posted May 19, 2017 Just now, ramone said: So you'd agree that, with a bit of luck v Brighton, our season could have been different... Yeah, or if the referee hadn't disallowed "goals" against Blackburn, it could have been the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Owl At Risk Posted May 19, 2017 Share Posted May 19, 2017 28 minutes ago, slinger208b said: Just examples of my point, not to be taken out of context by isolation... Direct question in response to an opinion, in context. PS lighten up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dagmeister Posted May 19, 2017 Share Posted May 19, 2017 2 minutes ago, ramone said: The under-use of Buckley/McManaman was baffling. Completely agree with you there. Should have been utilised more. Especially given we never got a tune our of Adam Reach all season. Having these 2 sat on the bench was bizarre. Blimmin' eck I forgot McManaman too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian Posted May 19, 2017 Share Posted May 19, 2017 4 hours ago, slinger208b said: He's aware that better players are required at the back but there were no players available "within the parameters". If he's aware that we need better players at the back why does he insist on getting the ball to them at every possibke chance? Free kick 40'yards from goal....pass it back to Lees Thrown in on the 18 yard line.....get it back to Loovens the issue with him for me is that in a 90 minute game we create say 8-10 decent attacking situations in a game which could easily be up to 15 if we didn't sacrifice attacking possibilities with a chance of losing the ball for guaranteed possession amongst our back 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SiJ Posted May 19, 2017 Share Posted May 19, 2017 36 minutes ago, owls66 said: F*ck me. Guess we'll accept third next season and play to lose again in the playoffs. LEAST WE'RE MAKING PROGRESS THO Bit of a knobbish response. Come back to discuss like an adult once you've gotten out of the spoiled brat mentality and put your toys back in the pram. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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