Carlos.. stay or go ???

[OasisOwl72]

23 minutes ago, billyblack said:

What makes you think our recruitment will be different. It was appalling this season, couple that with fact that despite that our starting line up hasnt changed. Where is the advancement there?

To answer your question re advancement it’s here:

 

15/16 6^th 74 pts

16/17 4^th 81 pts

 

It’s about winning/obtaining points over style. Of course we all want to see attacking entertaining football but give me substance over style any day. Carlos has identified this and acted on it. Give me 30 1-0 wins over a season rather than 20 3-2s! Whichever way you look at it we have improved league position and points totals under Carlos, that’s a fact. Points get you promotion not how you acquire them.

 

For all those wanting Carlos to go, what is your criteria for not wanting a manager anymore? It has to be a combination of losing the players, losing the majority of fans, downward turn in results, breakdown of relationship with chairman. Does Carlos really meet this criteria? Clearly not and I sincerely hope he stays to finish the job.

 

Be careful what you wish for.

[ChinaOwl]

1 minute ago, OasisOwl72 said:

To answer your question re advancement it’s here:

 

15/16 6^th 74 pts

16/17 4^th 81 pts

 

It’s about winning/obtaining points over style. Of course we all want to see attacking entertaining football but give me substance over style any day. Carlos has identified this and acted on it. Give me 30 1-0 wins over a season rather than 20 3-2s! Whichever way you look at it we have improved league position and points totals under Carlos, that’s a fact. Points get you promotion not how you acquire them.

 

For all those wanting Carlos to go, what is your criteria for not wanting a manager anymore? It has to be a combination of losing the players, losing the majority of fans, downward turn in results, breakdown of relationship with chairman. Does Carlos really meet this criteria? Clearly not and I sincerely hope he stays to finish the job.

 

Be careful what you wish for.

 

But why, if Carlos decided that this new, pragmatic, defensive measure was needed to achieve promotion was it necessary to invest a king's ransom bringing in new attacking players? 

[OasisOwl72]

14 minutes ago, ChinaOwl said:

 

But why, if Carlos decided that this new, pragmatic, defensive measure was needed to achieve promotion was it necessary to invest a king's ransom bringing in new attacking players? 

It was more a case of how the team was set up and not some radical new approach. Games last season when we were possibly too attacking/not organised enough we got turned over at the likes of Charlton and MK Dons. This season that hasn’t happened as often and hence partly why the league position and points total were improved upon.

 

Why bring in new  attacking players? Do I really have to answer that?

 

[ChinaOwl]

1 minute ago, OasisOwl72 said:

It was more a case of how the team was set up and not some radical new approach. Games last season when we were possibly too attacking/not organised enough we got turned over at the likes of Charlton and MK Dons. This season that hasn’t happened as often and hence partly why the league position and points total were improved upon.

 

Why bring in new  attacking players? Do I really have to answer that?

 

 

You can try because it still seems odd that whatever semantics or spin put on it, having an array of top quality Championship strikers on about 150K per week in wages then starving them almost to the point of submission of service does come across as a strange policy especially when so little was invested in defensive cover.

[billyblack]

38 minutes ago, OasisOwl72 said:

To answer your question re advancement it’s here:

 

15/16 6^th 74 pts

16/17 4^th 81 pts

 

It’s about winning/obtaining points over style. Of course we all want to see attacking entertaining football but give me substance over style any day. Carlos has identified this and acted on it. Give me 30 1-0 wins over a season rather than 20 3-2s! Whichever way you look at it we have improved league position and points totals under Carlos, that’s a fact. Points get you promotion not how you acquire them.

 

For all those wanting Carlos to go, what is your criteria for not wanting a manager anymore? It has to be a combination of losing the players, losing the majority of fans, downward turn in results, breakdown of relationship with chairman. Does Carlos really meet this criteria? Clearly not and I sincerely hope he stays to finish the job.

 

Be careful what you wish for.

We go more points yes, did we get as far? No. Is more points or doing well enough for DC given his investment.

 

Will a new manager bring that extra few percent to get us over the line? Will CC be able to come up with new ideas to do it? Who knows.

 

Whether we stick and twist with CC or get a new manager we have three fundamental issues to overcome, midfield balance, FF and the size of the squad

 

FF - where are we going to play him? We have an abundance of strikers (too many) yet we play him where he isn't suited. Needs fixing one way or another. Change the formation or get rid. Just because he is a good player and perhaps our best it doesn't mean he works for us.

 

Midfield balance, been an issue all season and never fixed. How are we going to play Abdi, Lee, Bannan and Hutch, we cant. We also don't need 4 or 5 wingers as we never play them enough. Needs fixing, balance should provide more creativity for our strikers who have struggled most of the season.

 

Squad, just massive with wage burners who wont get a game ever.

 

Sort the formation and recruit sensibly.

 

[OasisOwl72]

14 minutes ago, ChinaOwl said:

 

You can try because it still seems odd that whatever semantics or spin put on it, having an array of top quality Championship strikers on about 150K per week in wages then starving them almost to the point of submission of service does come across as a strange policy especially when so little was invested in defensive cover.

Carlos tried to acquire defenders better than currently at the club but it was extremely difficult within constraints at the time and what was available. I won’t divulge my sources but a deal was agreed with Henley from Blackburn until Newcastle came in just to stop us getting him. I have also heard we are going back in for him as Newcastle have put him on the transfer list since promotion. This does have to be a priority in the summer recruitment.

 

If we had failed or Carlos wasn’t interested in signing players like Rhodes/Winnall etc when available with their goal scoring records even more questions would have been asked. You can analysis the detail forever but facts say we have improved and like any change it has to be one where evidence suggests it will lead to an improvement. In the case of Carlos the evidence is there to show we have improved. How we have improved in terms of style or whatever you want to call it is down to interpretation.  

[Shezza]

1 hour ago, billyblack said:

What makes you think our recruitment will be different. It was appalling this season, couple that with fact that despite that our starting line up hasnt changed. Where is the advancement there?

 

First of all, I believe most of the players we signed will prove you wrong next season. Having said that, recruitment for Carlos' first season was a success (not all down to him, I know). I also believe that DC and CC are intelligent guys who will learn from the experience of this season. 

[billyblack]

1 minute ago, Shezza said:

 

First of all, I believe most of the players we signed will prove you wrong next season. Having said that, recruitment for Carlos' first season was a success (not all down to him, I know). I also believe that DC and CC are intelligent guys who will learn from the experience of this season. 

I hope so buts lets explore this further with recent signings.

 

Abdi - where is he going to play, in the middle with Bannan and Lee?

Winnall - when is he going to get a game along with Hooper, Fletcher, Rhodes and FF? (Im assuming Joao and Nuhiu will be gone)

Rhodes - not with our current playing style he wont

Fox - maybe, still relatively young and learning

Hooper - yes

Fletcher - debatable

Jones - squad player

Reach - doing ok

 

[billyblack]

15 minutes ago, OasisOwl72 said:

Carlos tried to acquire defenders better than currently at the club but it was extremely difficult within constraints at the time and what was available. I won’t divulge my sources but a deal was agreed with Henley from Blackburn until Newcastle came in just to stop us getting him. I have also heard we are going back in for him as Newcastle have put him on the transfer list since promotion. This does have to be a priority in the summer recruitment.

 

If we had failed or Carlos wasn’t interested in signing players like Rhodes/Winnall etc when available with their goal scoring records even more questions would have been asked. You can analysis the detail forever but facts say we have improved and like any change it has to be one where evidence suggests it will lead to an improvement. In the case of Carlos the evidence is there to show we have improved. How we have improved in terms of style or whatever you want to call it is down to interpretation.  

I don't think defence is that much of an issue apart from another CB which is a must. We don't exactly leak a lot of goals.

 

Hunt and Palmer seem to work ok. Maybe another LB but again not that much of an issue.

 

Our formation is the problem. When we know what we are going to do then we can get the players in the positions. After we have got rid of about 15 players

[Athelwulf]

If he gets the chance of the Porto job I doubt he'll stay here.

[billyblack]

1 minute ago, Athelwulf said:

If he gets the chance of the Porto job I doubt he'll stay here.

But its so sunny in Sheffield..............

[Paddyowl]

He's got to stay, improvement upon improvement, this question should'nt need to be asked

 

Our squad is already one of the best in the Championship, chuck out some of the dead wood, sign 3 or 4 quality players and go again, 3rd time lucky!!!

 

WTID !!!

 

 

[Almat]

If you take this 'continuity' argument to the nth degree would that mean we would still have Turner/Yorath/Irvine (delete as applicable) managing us? 

[billyblack]

1 minute ago, paddyowl said:

He's got to stay, improvement upon improvement, this question should'nt need to be asked

 

Our squad is already one of the best in the Championship, chuck out some of the dead wood, sign 3 or 4 quality players and go again, 3rd time lucky!!!

 

WTID !!!

 

 

Its never been an argument in the past as we have been so crap for so many years. Change was kind of irrelevant to some degree.

 

Now we are doing well, have money and decent players its interesting. If CC stays (and it may be down to him) and we get off to slow start (god bless us), then what? How long do we give him? To get top two you need to come out quick and stay there. 

[parkerowl]

2 hours ago, Pulcinella said:

 

Let's do a Brighton. Knocked out of the play-offs, stick with their manager, next year automatics.

I was hoping we'd 'do a brighton' this season.

[Pulcinella]

1 minute ago, parkerowl said:

I was hoping we'd 'do a brighton' this season.

 

I know. This is the life of a Wednesday. Long suffering.

[Ash77]

Even though c25m has been spent and likely more to come, i dont think we'll ever go up under cc by aiming to scrappily grind out results and struggling to create with no proper wingers, flair, pace or width.

 

Due to his safe and cautious approach and a large budget we would probably be 3rd to 6th every time tho  

 

Play offs is a 1 in 4 tho, probably worse if you can't open up teams with pace, creativity or countering threat.

 

Tough call thats all about ambition, in my time i mainly saw the 90's side in the top flight and some exciting stuff, so what cc serves up is unlikely to ever be good enough regardless of budget

 

 

Edited May 19, 2017 by Ash77

[Paddyowl]

38 minutes ago, billyblack said:

Its never been an argument in the past as we have been so crap for so many years. Change was kind of irrelevant to some degree.

 

Now we are doing well, have money and decent players its interesting. If CC stays (and it may be down to him) and we get off to slow start (god bless us), then what? How long do we give him? To get top two you need to come out quick and stay there. 

He stays until its time to go, ie we're not in a position to challenge.

 

Expectations were high this year and next year is going to be even higher, if CC is clearly not taking us forward then he should go, this year he DID take us forward and IMO he deserves another crack at it.

[Guvner]

Whether he's staying or going, a decision needs to be made sooner rather than later. I know our season as only just finished, but its first up best dressed in the transfer market. If we are bringing in a new manager the sooner the better, it will be August before we know it and we've got to be settled and ready 

[billyblack]

3 minutes ago, Guvner said:

Whether he's staying or going, a decision needs to be made sooner rather than later. I know our season as only just finished, but its first up best dressed in the transfer market. If we are bringing in a new manager the sooner the better, it will be August before we know it and we've got to be settled and ready 

Another one bang on