How Abdi fitted into Watford's promotion side.

[Holmowl]

8 minutes ago, HirstWhoScoredIt said:

I think you also need to check Abdi's goalscoring record at this level.

 

He got 12 in one season for Watford. 23 in 83.

 

But apart from Abdi and Buckley....

[steelcityowlsfan]

2 hours ago, WFC said:

Hi, hope you don't mind a Watford fan commenting but I've been following your progress this season and waiting and hoping for things to really click into gear. Not least because after your summer signings I bunged some money on you for promotion!

 

It was sad to see our promotion team being broken up but it was probably inevitable - all 3 of your recent signings from us I think Watford fans were sad to see go. Forestieri was always worth the entrance money when he played for us but he was in and out the team sometimes because of the form of others sometimes because of injury. He almost always delivered though and was so entertaining to watch. Towards the end of his time with us his attitude was being questioned by some. Things like having a strop when Deeney didn't pass to him against Fulham - at that point Deeney was one on one with the keeper and instead of passing to Forestieri tucked it in for his hattrick. I enjoyed watching him last season for your boys and really hope he can hit that form again. When he's on it, he's unplayable.

 

Anyway, I came here to comment on Abdi. You probably saw the reaction from Watford fans when he left. Most were absolutely gutted. With regards to how Abdi fitted into our team, as others have mentioned earlier our most successful formation tended to be 3-5-2. Abdi would be advanced and in behind the forwards with another regular central midfielder (Munari, Guédioura) and a third (Toszer, Watson) with more defensive responsibilities. The width came from the wing backs (Anya, Parades, Pudil) rather than out and out wingers. The front two would be from (Deeney, Vydra and later Ighalo). With Deeney and Vydra up front you had a combination of strength and electric pace. Vydra had one amazing season and that was playing in front of Abdi and alongside Deeney. Most of his goals that season came from linking up with Abdi. In that central position, Abdi would also break through the defence after a few passes and you always knew when he was in on goal he wouldn't miss. The options in front of Abdi with Vydra and Deeney moving the defence around - Vydra was constantly playing on the shoulder and looking for through balls - were ideal for Abdi. Also, with the pacey wingbacks, Abdi had options on either side for a pass. Ultimately, everything went through him and he thrived on it.

 

Last season our formation and mentality changed, both as a result of a new manager and the need to avoid relegation. Despite new signings coming in and Abdi being shunted out onto right midfield he adapted, did the defensive work very well and became a very reliable option on the side of the midfield. But his talents were completely wasted there. We even saw him at right back towards the end of season. Probably something that helped make up his mind it was time to leave. So he can do a job in most positions but from what we saw at Watford, to get the most out of him he needs to be in that central advanced midfielder role, feeding the forwards, moving the ball around the edge of the box and including a few goal of the season entries every year.

 

I really hope he can find form for you boys soon because as with Forestieri, he was a joy to watch in full flow. Ultimately, we wasted him by playing him out of position and it led to him leaving. I hope that doesn't happen again for you.

 

Good luck for the rest of the season.

Thanks for your comments. They sum up what a lot of fans on here already think. 

 

Really hope Abdi gets a run at it in his preferred position. 

 

Good luck for the rest of the season and don't be surprised we come back to you in January for another player . 

[spike1867]

I have to agree with everything WFC said about Abdi. What's more I'm going to repeat what I said in June. We were always going to have to work much harder this year to earn the space to play our football. 

 

Hooper and Fletcher don't offer enough movement. My gut told me they were not the right strike partners for each other, but for a while I thought they might find the understanding. I don't think it's easy for either to play with FF as a partner. Joao is capable of expansive movement up top and offers our best solution at the moment. I would play him up top with Hooper. 

 

Abdi should be the playmaker end of story. Bannan should be his understudy. WFC said they had the right blend of power, pace and movement. We lack at least two out of those three. It's imperative that Joao steps up. Even then, I would still look at Hogan or another player of that ilk. As WFC said, playing off the shoulder, movement and pace, moving the defence around. Options for the playmaker when he receives the ball. 

 

I understand it's been difficult to give Abdi game time in his favoured position, his form had dipped and that's fair enough. However starting against Fulham, it's time to start integrating him into the side.

[Mid Wicket]

I dont think you are wrong with this JOAO offers more movement up front, IMO Carlos was looking to play Abdi and Mattias in midfield this year with Jones as the player to break up play, he should have persisted with Abdi and a midfield 3 with maybe Jones and a throw up between Lee, Buckleyor Bannan. Forestieri playing on the left .

[gurujuan]

So many things point to us being better off if we switched to a midfield three, it's hard to see why we persist with the current system

[Guest BRADFIELDOWLS]

Or 3-5-2 with Loovens adding some height at back.

 

However, Watford 's links to Udinese helps here because  3 at back is in Italian DNA, see Conte now at Chelsea.

 

Only way with Abdi central and FF, again drfiting in from left likelast season. 

 

Of course, a big, big January could change all this.

 

Thanks WFC. Very helpful.

[Holmowl]

1 hour ago, gurujuan said:

So many things point to us being better off if we switched to a midfield three, it's hard to see why we persist with the current system

 

I would definitely like to see us look at the more obvious solution first, which is to keep to our 442 but play two proper wingers.

 

The current compromise is lousy.

 

Then, and only then, would I expect to see us try a totally new formation.

[gurujuan]

1 hour ago, Holmowl said:

 

I would definitely like to see us look at the more obvious solution first, which is to keep to our 442 but play two proper wingers.

 

The current compromise is lousy.

 

Then, and only then, would I expect to see us try a totally new formation.

 

Yes, a 4-4-2 system can work, but we'd need a more combative central pairing, and new wingers as well, as only Buckley is capable of going outside. Might actually be easier to switch formations

[spike1867]

19 minutes ago, Holmowl said:

 

I would definitely like to see us look at the more obvious solution first, which is to keep to our 442 but play two proper wingers.

 

The current compromise is lousy.

 

Then, and only then, would I expect to see us try a totally new formation.

I know you are steadfast in your position on 4-4-2 and Hooper shipmate, however we don't have the right blend of midfielders to play a 4 man midfield. 

 

If Lee plays (our box to box duracell bunny), do you go with a CM partner who is creative (Abdi/Bannan), or a defensive alternative (Jones/Hutchinson)? One is open to getting ran over which has happened at times this season the other lacks creativity. 'Ahh but' I hear you say, creativity from the wings. The problem being, the easiest way to nullify wingers is to starve them of supply. To give them supply one of the central midfielders needs to have the range of passing to pick them out in a congested midfield or thread the needle. 

 

The problem I have with 4-4-2 for us, is we don't have enough creativity if Jones or Hutch plays with Lee. I don't think we're strong enough defensively if Abdi or Bannan plays with Lee. The other alternative is to pick the right combination and drop Lee, then we lack our box to box midfielder. As I've bored everybody with before. We lack the Keane to the Scholes, the Palmer to the Sheridan, the Busquets to the Xavi, the Vieira/Silva to the Petit........all of whom weighed in with goals. The all had the legs to transition quickly from defensive midfielder to supporting the attack or even getting beyond the strikers.

 

So for me the solution is to maintain the solid base in midfield with either 1 or 2 defensive minded midfielders and let the front 4 or 5 do the damage dependent on opposition.

 

By the way 4-2-3-1 or 4-1-3-2 is not a brand new formation. We played that shape multiple times last season with success and with only Hooper up top supported by 3 just behind him. 

[oldishowl]

Our formation, system and tactics, whatever you want to call it is unusual/ unique. 

 

Most sides play proper 442 or some version which gives 3 central mods and a lone striker.

 

We set up as we do so that we can have 3 centre mids when we need them but also 2 strikers.

 

However it gives a problem with recruitment. Most sides have watched a potential signing play in the exact same position for his current club so have some certainty he can do a job.

 

With us, most signings are a gamble , especially midfield as you know you are going to ask them to do something different and it is pot luck whether they can do it.

Eg Abdi

[areNOTwhatTHEYseem]

Just adopt a 3-4-2-1 like Brendan Rodgers did at Liverpool...

 

Westwood

 

Lees     Loovens     Hutch

 

Palmer     Lee     Jones     Reach

 

Abdi     Forestieri

 

Hooper

[Owl 44]

4 hours ago, spike1867 said:

our box to box duracell bunny

I love this description of Kieran Lee. Anyway I don't know enough about football tactics to make any suggestions but plenty on here seem to know and I enjoyed reading WFC's comments on Abdi. All I know is that I really enjoyed watching Abdi play against Port Vale in the pre-season friendly and after that game - where he scored one and hit the post with another - I couldn't wait to see him play for us this season. It seems clear that our current system doesn't suit him but I hope and pray that he gets a good run in the team and comes good. I just hope he's given the chance before it's too late and he becomes another McGugan.

[Crack pot]

Think he needs playing in a full game and to try he's hardest to get a goal to give him the boost up the arse, same with Reach, think a midfield 3 of Abdi, Jones and lee would be perfect but the 2 wingers have got to be there aswell, there has to be a change in formation! 352 4231 4132 or something other than 442

[since59owe]

15 hours ago, areNOTwhatTHEYseem said:

Just adopt a 3-4-2-1 like Brendan Rodgers did at Liverpool...

 

Westwood

 

Lees     Loovens     Hutch

 

Palmer     Lee     Jones     Reach

 

Abdi     Forestieri

 

Hooper

Interesting idea

[spike1867]

15 hours ago, areNOTwhatTHEYseem said:

Just adopt a 3-4-2-1 like Brendan Rodgers did at Liverpool...

 

Westwood

 

Lees     Loovens     Hutch

 

Palmer     Lee     Jones     Reach

 

Abdi     Forestieri

 

Hooper

 

18 minutes ago, since59owe said:

Interesting idea

 

Strangely, I had a think about our midfield and playing as a midfield 4 and is there some radical or untried combination of players that could work. I also had Palmer in on the right of that 4. Different era I know, but we played 4-4-2 under Atkinson and there were no wingers in that team.  Harkes, Wilson, Worthington, none of them were wingers.  What we did have though was movement into the channels in Williams and Palmer. We certainly lack that now.

 

Whilst areNOTwhatTHEYseem attributed that to Brendan Rogers, Jurgen Klopp plays that formation in a different way.  Whilst at Dortmund he played 3-6-1.  Very fluid and playing the high press with 3 distinct triggers (ball played to CB facing his own goal, ball played to FB on touchline, difficult high or bouncing ball to a player facing his own goal).  Bielsa, Guardiola and Sampaoli have combinations of 3-3-3-1, 3-3-1-3 and the above formation, generally with the same triggers.  What they all have in common is rather than 3 banks of players as in 4-4-2 and 4-3-3 and 3-5-2, they advocate 4 banks of players. Hence 3-3-3-1 or 4-2-2-2. The 3-6-1 becomes the the formation above.  Basically it closes the traditional gaps between defence, midfield and attack.  It gives the appearance of incessant pressure.  

 

Anyway, i'm just rambling random thoughts, off topic,  but its why i think we need to go with 4-2-3-1 or 4-1-3-2.  I think we need the depth to allow us to play forward passes, which of course at times this year we have been accused of failing to do.  I think Abdi is integral to that, but I still think we lack movement up top or certainly the sort of movement that defenders struggle to deal with.