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Mick De Lyons

Which striker has come closest to David Hirst...

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1 hour ago, Blue and white said:

I'd still take Hirst over Shearer, Cole, Fowler or Owen lol

Keep off the whiskey mate lol.

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1 hour ago, ashamanic said:

Rooney when he first arrived, but not the others and I doubt there were any Wednesday fans back then who would have swapped Hirst for Shearer, Cole or Wright.

Roae tinted glasses indeed.

Shearer, Wright and Cole all played for top four clubs who won trophies. It isn't even a debate lol. Look at the goals to games ratio, look at the England caps, domestic honours. Shearer and Wright, plus Cole played for championship winning sides. Hirst was a very good player who played at the same time. That's it. By any analogy he simply doesn't compare. His best season was in the second tier and spent his whole career at an average premiership club, who had two exceptional seasons in 93/94.

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1 hour ago, ashamanic said:

Looking at the Wikipedia list of England players with over 25 caps, from the past 20 years

Fowler, Owen, Heskey, Rooney, Defoe, Crouch, Wellbeck

If you think Cole and Wright were better than Hirst, you are merely wrong. If you think Crouch and Heskey were (and according to the stats, they are in the top 7 forwards to make their England debut since 1996, you are deluded.

Of course, there could be great players who just didn't play for the right team so don't make the list (Cole only had 15 caps for example), but with Crouch regularly getting games, it shows there has not be a lot of top quality english talent available anywhere and until Kane, no one who was better than even mediocre than Rooney in 2003. o it's hardly surprising Wednesday haven't come close

For a start, no one is " merely wrong ", its just opinions. But thete are such things as fact based opinions. Such as Hirst only had one, possibly two Englamd caps. Hirst's best goal scoring season was in the second division. Hirst played his whole career at a club who were distinctly an average premier league team who had two exceptional seasons around 93/94. Shearer, Wright, Owen and Cole all played for top four teams. They all won domestic honours and had more England caps. Hirst never joined Man Utd, Liverpool, Arsenal etc, because he wasn't deemed good enough and injury played a large part in that. I never even mentioned Crouch and Heskey, so forget them. The guy put Hirst ahead of any striker of the last 20 years and so i picked out Shearer, Rooney, Fowler, Owen, Wright and Cole as examples. I never even mentioned Crouch and Heskey, so keep it on track. Andy Cole played for title winning Man Utd at their height. Of course he is better than hirst lol. Ian Wright played for the double winning side of George Graham's Arsenal, before the Wenger days, if which he was a part of. Of course Wright is better than Hirst. Its not even a debate lol. This is really really simple. Hirst had potential, amongst othees who also had potential. Hirst got badly injured and didn't live up to that potential, but still had a good career. The other's i mention did forfill their potential and went on to play for better clubs who won titles, had better goals per game ratio's and more England caps. It's that simple.

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5 hours ago, Mick De Lyons said:

For a start, no one is " merely wrong ", its just opinions. But thete are such things as fact based opinions. Such as Hirst only had one, possibly two Englamd caps. Hirst's best goal scoring season was in the second division. Hirst played his whole career at a club who were distinctly an average premier league team who had two exceptional seasons around 93/94. Shearer, Wright, Owen and Cole all played for top four teams. They all won domestic honours and had more England caps. Hirst never joined Man Utd, Liverpool, Arsenal etc, because he wasn't deemed good enough and injury played a large part in that. I never even mentioned Crouch and Heskey, so forget them. The guy put Hirst ahead of any striker of the last 20 years and so i picked out Shearer, Rooney, Fowler, Owen, Wright and Cole as examples. I never even mentioned Crouch and Heskey, so keep it on track. Andy Cole played for title winning Man Utd at their height. Of course he is better than hirst lol. Ian Wright played for the double winning side of George Graham's Arsenal, before the Wenger days, if which he was a part of. Of course Wright is better than Hirst. Its not even a debate lol. This is really really simple. Hirst had potential, amongst othees who also had potential. Hirst got badly injured and didn't live up to that potential, but still had a good career. The other's i mention did forfill their potential and went on to play for better clubs who won titles, had better goals per game ratio's and more England caps. It's that simple.

Got to agree with you, about all of them except Cole, put him in our team of that time and he wouldn't have scored half as many goals, his goals per shot average weren't that good, unlike the others you named (who were deadly) and he couldn't create his own chances like Hirst. As you said though it's all about opinions, so no point arguing, I would say Hirst on his day was more exciting to watch than the others (bar Rooney's early career) but as you say it was unfulfilled potential, whereas the others fulfilled their potential and were mainly better finishers than Hirst. (Still love him though!)

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1 hour ago, OWL1969 said:

Got to agree with you, about all of them except Cole, put him in our team of that time and he wouldn't have scored half as many goals, his goals per shot average weren't that good, unlike the others you named (who were deadly) and he couldn't create his own chances like Hirst. As you said though it's all about opinions, so no point arguing, I would say Hirst on his day was more exciting to watch than the others (bar Rooney's early career) but as you say it was unfulfilled potential, whereas the others fulfilled their potential and were mainly better finishers than Hirst. (Still love him though!)

Andy Cole is perhaps the weakest pick out if the examples i gave and its true that some players couldn't perform aswell if they played for teams with less quality. However, i think that would account for all the players mentioned really. A Shearer, Rooney, Owen, Wright all wouldn't have done aswell at Wednesday, but they were all bought by the top teams who saw something in them and fullfilled that potential. Hirsty had a good career, but it seems to some people that unless you praise him to the hilt and above all others, you're letting the side down.

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Nobody Has come close, If not for the Injuries things could have been so different for Him, Wednesday and England, he was at least as good as Shearer if not better 

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On 13/10/2016 at 19:38, Mick De Lyons said:

Keep off the whiskey mate lol.

 

I've had few ticklers tonight (beer and red wine... carnage. lol) tonight and I'Il be honest from where I'm sitting all of Hirsty's goals far outshine any of Shearers. That one against Millwall in the early nineties (yes I've watched the YouTube vid) would grace any Ballon D'or winners's show reel. 

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10 hours ago, F. Spiksley said:

 

I've had few ticklers tonight (beer and red wine... carnage. lol) tonight and I'Il be honest from where I'm sitting all of Hirsty's goals far outshine any of Shearers. That one against Millwall in the early nineties (yes I've watched the YouTube vid) would grace any Ballon D'or winners's show reel. 

They both scored great goals and both were great players, its just that you place Hirst in a higher place than i think he merits. That's me saying that on Coca Cola lol. Have a good weekend mate.

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10 hours ago, Greeny79 said:

Nobody Has come close, If not for the Injuries things could have been so different for Him, Wednesday and England, he was at least as good as Shearer if not better 

He was equal to Shearer earlier in his career, but not when both were in their prime years.

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3 hours ago, Mick De Lyons said:

He was equal to Shearer earlier in his career, but not when both were in their prime years.

 

Like I say, I think injuries put paid to that sadly 

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3 hours ago, Greeny79 said:

 

Like I say, I think injuries put paid to that sadly 

Shearer had at least two major injury set backs in his career. Sir Bobby Robson explained how Shearer had to recieve the ball in a differeny way because of those injuries and had to change his style of play. However, he still remained at the top of his game until he retired.

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Francis Jeffers was pretty close! :ph34r: I once saw them both in the physio's room and it's only small in there. 

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The only striker I can think of, who comes closest to David Hirst is.....

 

George Hirst.  

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It's right that you can't compare hirst to shearer Wright cole sheringham etc etc.

 

he never achieved what they did.

 

he could have though - easily - and those lucky enough to see him on that route are lucky.

 

he was a superb striker.

 

didnt work out for him or us in terms of success but we've had no one like him since - not one anywhere near as good.

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