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6 hours ago, Paolo Di Catio said:

I wouldn't say Matias is unproven

 

He is unproven. 3 goals in 17 matches for us, and Carlos gave him less than 180 minutes on the pitch in the 10 match run-in. Clearly he hadn't proved himself to Carlos. We were not doing great in that last 10 games yet he still couldn't get game time.

 

I think he might come good, but as someone else posted, he needs to batter himself into the starting line up, then battle to keep it. He has two or three more proven players to get past.

 

Hope he can. 

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Expect to see very fluid 442, with no DM for most home games, and 451 away (or variants of these)

Starting midfield and attack:
Home:
Bannan

Lee

Abdi

FF

Fletcher

Hooper

Away:

Hutch
Bannan
Lee
Abdi
FF
Fletcher / Hooper depending on opposition

Edited by robswfc
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23 hours ago, butchpt6 said:

Abdi is an Attacking Midfielder who from his interview has been assured he will play in that role 

 

im not sure how CC will fit them all in - Id go one up front but who knows

 

Westwood 

 

Hunt

Lees

Hutchinson 

Pudil 

 

Bannan 

Lee 

 

Matias 

Abdi 

FF 

 

Fletcher 

ABSOLUTELY the best 11 we have ........ wallace, hooper, Joao on the bench!! WOW

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A way of not having a powerhouse midfielder is to play 3 in the middle. BB, KL and AA will offer us everything in the middle. Workrate, tenacity and bags of quality with the ball. Frightening is the only word for our attacking options.

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9 hours ago, Holmowl said:

 

He is unproven. 3 goals in 17 matches for us, and Carlos gave him less than 180 minutes on the pitch in the 10 match run-in. Clearly he hadn't proved himself to Carlos. We were not doing great in that last 10 games yet he still couldn't get game time.

 

I think he might come good, but as someone else posted, he needs to batter himself into the starting line up, then battle to keep it. He has two or three more proven players to get past.

 

Hope he can. 

Alternatively: 3 goals in 859 minutes of league football, or a goal every 280 minutes (ish), or a goal every 3 full games. Of which approximately half that time he was playing with a hernia and seemingly struggling to adapt to another country. See, when worded like that, he sounds quite good and surely only a matter of time before he batters his way into the first team.

 

It all depends how you look at it, innit

 

 

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3 minutes ago, StudentOwl said:

Alternatively: 3 goals in 859 minutes of league football, or a goal every 280 minutes (ish), or a goal every 3 full games. Of which approximately half that time he was playing with a hernia and seemingly struggling to adapt to another country. See, when worded like that, he sounds quite good and surely only a matter of time before he batters his way into the first team.

 

It all depends how you look at it, innit

 

 

when worded like that it seems you are trying to polish a turd

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1 minute ago, Ellis Rimmer said:

when worded like that it seems you are trying to polish a turd

Goal every 280 minutes from an attacking midfielder while injured?

And that's turd polishing?

If he averaged that over the course of a whole season and played every single minute of every single game, he'd score 15 goals in a Championship season. Realistically at that rate you'd expect him to get 10 over the course of an entire campaign, considering he'd be injured, substituted off, not start every game etc. 10 from an attacking midfielder/winger? Pretty decent. Not outstanding, but decent. 

 

Turd polishing? Give over.

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7 minutes ago, StudentOwl said:

Goal every 280 minutes from an attacking midfielder while injured?

And that's turd polishing?

If he averaged that over the course of a whole season and played every single minute of every single game, he'd score 15 goals in a Championship season. Realistically at that rate you'd expect him to get 10 over the course of an entire campaign, considering he'd be injured, substituted off, not start every game etc. 10 from an attacking midfielder/winger? Pretty decent. Not outstanding, but decent. 

 

Turd polishing? Give over.

yeah, like if you only counted the parts of the matches where he does something good or scores, then that is 100% of his season that he's been the best player in the world, so if he does that next season then we'll sell him to Barcelona for 150M

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3 minutes ago, Ellis Rimmer said:

yeah, like if you only counted the parts of the matches where he does something good or scores, then that is 100% of his season that he's been the best player in the world, so if he does that next season then we'll sell him to Barcelona for 150M

No?

I only used a goals-to-minute ratio to highlight a point. 

Marco Matias: Attacking midfielder, 1 goal every 270 minutes played. Injured for half of his playing time

Lucas Joao: Striker, 1 goal every 300 minutes played. Not injured for half his playing time

 

Doing this does not say Matias is a better player than Joao. Doing this does not imply that Matias is the next coming of Jesus, or the next Forestieri or Abdi. What this does show is highlight that Matias was a mixture of unfortunate and much better than a lot of people are giving him credit for... and he had a terrible season last season both due to his injury and lack of application. Seemingly struggling to settle into a new country hindered him too.

You can't, however, claim I'm trying to "polish a turd". I'm merely showing that, in reality, if you consider all the variables, Matias did about what would be expected from someone in his set of circumstances. And it also shows that, despite what some naysayers like yourself seem to think, the potential is there for him to be a really good player, possibly one of the better attacking players in this league. He smashed the Portuguese league apart two seasons ago... that's quite an achievement. Or he could simply be one of those players that can occasionally score but doesn't do much else and will never be more than a player that makes regular substitute appearances for us. 

 

But sure, ignore the facts that suggest he's got something about him, and go with your "polishing a turd" shtick. 

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1 minute ago, StudentOwl said:

No?

I only used a goals-to-minute ratio to highlight a point. 

Marco Matias: Attacking midfielder, 1 goal every 270 minutes played. Injured for half of his playing time

Lucas Joao: Striker, 1 goal every 300 minutes played. Not injured for half his playing time

 

Doing this does not say Matias is a better player than Joao. Doing this does not imply that Matias is the next coming of Jesus, or the next Forestieri or Abdi. What this does show is highlight that Matias was a mixture of unfortunate and much better than a lot of people are giving him credit for... and he had a terrible season last season both due to his injury and lack of application. Seemingly struggling to settle into a new country hindered him too.

You can't, however, claim I'm trying to "polish a turd". I'm merely showing that, in reality, if you consider all the variables, Matias did about what would be expected from someone in his set of circumstances. And it also shows that, despite what some naysayers like yourself seem to think, the potential is there for him to be a really good player, possibly one of the better attacking players in this league. He smashed the Portuguese league apart two seasons ago... that's quite an achievement. Or he could simply be one of those players that can occasionally score but doesn't do much else and will never be more than a player that makes regular substitute appearances for us. 

 

But sure, ignore the facts that suggest he's got something about him, and go with your "polishing a turd" shtick. 

great strawman argument there re Joao. You really are polishing a turd. He had a poor season, hopefully this was due to injuries. But it no way can you argue that his stats are actually good. 

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3 minutes ago, Ellis Rimmer said:

great strawman argument there re Joao. You really are polishing a turd. He had a poor season, hopefully this was due to injuries. But it no way can you argue that his stats are actually good. 

Very first line after stating the facts I did in my post:

"Doing this does not say Matias is a better player than Joao". For it to be a strawman, I actually need to have made an argument... I didn't say Matias was better than Joao, so what am I strawmanning exactly? My argument was, is, and has only ever been "Matias wasn't that bad. He wasn't good, but all things considered he wasn't bad". In fact, regarding your final sentence that I've quoted above: 

"he had a terrible season last season both due to his injury and lack of application"

 

Genuine question... are you reading my posts or just assuming what I'm saying and responding to that voice in your head? Because if you actually read what I typed, you'd see that I haven't suggested anything like what you're saying I have

 

 

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1 minute ago, StudentOwl said:

Very first line after stating the facts I did in my post:

"Doing this does not say Matias is a better player than Joao". For it to be a strawman, I actually need to have made an argument... I didn't say Matias was better than Joao, so what am I strawmanning exactly? My argument was, is, and has only ever been "Matias wasn't that bad. He wasn't good, but all things considered he wasn't bad". In fact, regarding your final sentence that I've quoted above: 

"he had a terrible season last season both due to his injury and lack of application"

 

Genuine question... are you reading my posts or just assuming what I'm saying and responding to that voice in your head? Because if you actually read what I typed, you'd see that I haven't suggested anything like what you're saying I have

 

 

So why bring Joao up? he hardly had a brilliant season

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2 minutes ago, Paolo Di Catio said:

Some of our fans have seen too much crap over the years and can't tell the difference.

Nuhui is dogger,

Matias is the dogs dangly bits.

 

Matias is a player and hopefully his injuries are behind him, can see him being a star for us

Nuhiu is crap but the team definitely looked better with him in it than when Matias was on the pitch last year.

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1 minute ago, Ellis Rimmer said:

So why bring Joao up? he hardly had a brilliant season

I don't think he did either.

To be honest I now you've worded it like that I can see why me bringing Joao apparently randomly into it would seem a bit off. I was trying to raise the point that his goals-to-minute ratio wasn't bad, even though yes, he had a shocker last season overall. My logic was to use an example of a striker and show that in terms of final product (ie goals), he wasn't that far behind a player that is considered better on here. Joao was the first one that came into my head (I was originally going to go for a rival striker) and it ended up being Matias had done a bit better than him in that regard anyways. Of course, over the season Joao had a better one that Matias, no question... but again Lucas wasn't injured for half of his time on the pitch... Marco was

 

I just can't fathom how you can be so dismissive of a player who was only fit for the equivalent of about 4 full games of football, when when you look at all his minutes on the pitch (even when injured and half of them in that awful August/early September side) his goalscoring record is damned acceptable.

Overall he was poor last season, but it just seems that some on here can't consider the positives or even acknowledge that there are positive indicators he could be a really good player for us and instead seem determined to dismiss those that point these out as turd polishing. 

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2 minutes ago, StudentOwl said:

I don't think he did either.

To be honest I now you've worded it like that I can see why me bringing Joao apparently randomly into it would seem a bit off. I was trying to raise the point that his goals-to-minute ratio wasn't bad, even though yes, he had a shocker last season overall. My logic was to use an example of a striker and show that in terms of final product (ie goals), he wasn't that far behind a player that is considered better on here. Joao was the first one that came into my head (I was originally going to go for a rival striker) and it ended up being Matias had done a bit better than him in that regard anyways. Of course, over the season Joao had a better one that Matias, no question... but again Lucas wasn't injured for half of his time on the pitch... Marco was

 

I just can't fathom how you can be so dismissive of a player who was only fit for the equivalent of about 4 full games of football, when when you look at all his minutes on the pitch (even when injured and half of them in that awful August/early September side) his goalscoring record is damned acceptable.

Overall he was poor last season, but it just seems that some on here can't consider the positives or even acknowledge that there are positive indicators he could be a really good player for us and instead seem determined to dismiss those that point these out as turd polishing. 

but Joao's goals-to-minute ration is bad so it doesn't prove anything anyway.

 

I have not been particularly dismissive of Matias i'm just not pretending he was anything near what we expected last season, looking at how he played when he was fit, he wasn't very good. But as you say hopefully we can blame that on a niggly injury and that he will be good next season. Anything hope we have for him is based on that wonder goal and the reports of him from the season before in Portugual (though we now know this league to be comparatively poor to the championship)

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He is neither turd nor diamond. He is unproven. He could prove himself to be either.

 

what does surprise me is the amount of people wanting wanting him to start on Sunday. As if he has done anywhere near enough in pre-season to oust TWO out of Fletch, Hoops, Lee, Bannan, Wallace, Abdi and FF, beacause that is what playing Matias would need.

 

 

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nuhiu is what he his a big lump of a player who is of some value when you need that sort of player ......i'd keep him

matias hasnt done anything to justify a place in the side maybe if he stays fit this season he'll come good but he as a lot to do to get a place in the team .

why anyone would want to take lee out of midfield is beyond my comprehension .....

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