New Hillsborough Design

[RobHowe]

The stadium often appears to be full of empty seats except in important big matches. It's good to have slightly smaller ground ie only losing 3000 seats that can't be used anyway (see Arsenal and Brighton where we sold out and attendance was 35k and a few hundred with over 3000 seats unable to be used).

So while the official capacity is reduced from 38968 or what ever it is, the current useable capacity is under 36000 anyway, so technically re developing the ground in a better design with better facilities with 36000 capacity is actually an increase and a better fan experience in a louder more vibrant environment!

Are you advocating reducing the club's ability to maximise its revenue for big games at a huge cost just so the ground "experience" is better?

[Pompeyowl]

The stadium often appears to be full of empty seats except in important big matches. It's good to have slightly smaller ground ie only losing 3000 seats that can't be used anyway (see Arsenal and Brighton where we sold out and attendance was 35k and a few hundred with over 3000 seats unable to be used).

So while the official capacity is reduced from 38968 or what ever it is, the current useable capacity is under 36000 anyway, so technically re developing the ground in a better design with better facilities with 36000 capacity is actually an increase and a better fan experience in a louder more vibrant environment!

So we reduce the capacity so it doesn't look like there's so many empty seats?!

You know that SYP will still make sure we have several blocks empty for segregation, don't you?! We appear to have the most ridiculous segregation policy in the country.

[SolihullOwl79]

Are you advocating reducing the club's ability to maximise its revenue for big games at a huge cost just so the ground "experience" is better?

No I'm saying on paper the ground capacity is 39732 officially. Yet we sold out against Arsenal and Brighton but the attendance was under 36000. Therefore we are currently not able to use near enough 4000 seats.

Why not use that space to better effect, make the ground more compact. Have better facilities and more accessible concourses. Plus better acoustics so it's more intimidating to away teams and their fans.

[Guest]

Something needs to be done and if/when we are triumphant in the play off against Hull, the money gained would be ideal opportunity to carry out work on the ground.

I believe a horse shoe design with North, Kop and South all joined together holding 32400 of which 400 are executive/vip boxes. No more pillars, or restricted views. The west stand to be knocked down and rebuilt to hold 3600 away fans with stadium control building knocked down and incorporated into the new west stand along with media centre for journalists etc etc. A new support mechanism for the large screen in the south west so it can remain in that corner plus a further large screen in the other north west corner with the spectator area removed.

This equates to 36000 capacity with 10% allocation for away fans of 3600. We'd sell out against Man Utd, Man City, Arsenal, Chelsea and Liverpool possibly Spurs but games like West Ham, Middlesbrough, Leicester, Sunderland, Everton we'd get about 27000 home fans, and teams like Swansea, Bournemouth, Burnley, Palace, Southampton we'd struggle to get 24000 fans.

No point in increasing the capacity when it will only sell out 6 games out of 19, and be 85% full for another 5 but remaining 8 games struggle to get 75% capacity as the ground wouldn't feel alive.

It needs to be developed so that the acoustics carry from the home fans even when it's a low attendance.

When the ground is ultimately redeveloped in what ever form it be in, should we relocate to another ground while the work is carried or stay in a vastly reduced ground with a stand out of use and restricted capacity?

Are you all right?

[StudentOwl]

We're both students my friend. I graduate this year with a 2:1 in Mental Health Nursing.

You really believe we'll get 28000 against Swansea, Bournemouth, Crystal Palace, West Brom, Watford and Stoke? Capacity against West Ham, Everton, Southampton,Burnley, Middlesbrough, Sunderland? Very very doubtful.

How do I know they'd get 32400 into a horseshoe? Because they could design it that way so it would fit that many people in!

Why make the west stand smaller than it is? So that it would include other facilities like advised, proper stadium control, media centre plus it would be separate from rest of conjoined ground keeping the away fans completely separate from the home fans meaning that the home fans would not have restricted sales.

The ground needs to be developed in some way at some point regardless of whether we beat hull or not.

I'm fairly certain I did the maths and put them on here a few months ago... essentially, if you ignore the clubs like QPR and Bournemouth with small stadiums who are already close to selling their full capacity in Championship games- you see an increase in average attendances of between 30 and 40% when you get to the Premier League. We've averaged 22,500 this season, so an extra 30% on top of that is about 29k... so if we say that our minimum average attendance next season would be 30k- you then need to ask what the maximum could be. Obviously 40% would give us 31,500. And then of course you need to consider this is the average. There would be demand far, far, far in excess of your proposed capacity for games against the Manchester clubs, Liverpool and the top London clubs. I know we want to make Hillsborough a horrible place for away teams to visit, but I also don't think we have any right to limit clubs with big away followings to just 3000.

 

Also the financial implications of that... 3000 at £30 each is £90,000. Both Manchester clubs, Liverpool, and the top London clubs could and probably would sell closer to double that. So that's £90,000 about 4/5 times... in one season alone the club would lose out on about £400,000 in ticket revenue. Never mind any matchday income from food/drink etc (If we finally stop outsourcing that). And that's just considering the away end. In what has been, let's be honest, a decent but not a truly 'remarkable' season (In that no European football, no Premier League football etc), we've had two games this season where people have wanted tickets and unable to get them due to capacity restrictions. It's not something that should be repeated, yet you're proposing we completely redevelop Hillsborough but not rectify this issue. 

 

The 'ideal' scenario is that for most games we see about 80% of Hillsborough being used and that extra 20% is only used for big games... that way we get a 'full' feeling in the stadium while still having extra space for the big games that'll be sellouts. A capacity of 36,000 and limiting the away capacity to under 4000 does not fulfill those conditions.

[SolihullOwl79]

So we reduce the capacity so it doesn't look like there's so many empty seats?!

You know that SYP will still make sure we have several blocks empty for segregation, don't you?! We appear to have the most ridiculous segregation policy in the country.

No they won't. Because the home fans will all be in one great big horseshoe designed stand going from the south west to north east with various entry points etc.

The away fans will segregated in a separate stand on the west with seats in the middle of the stand flanked on either side by stadium control on the south part of the west stand and media centre on the north part of the west stand. There will be no way they can get to the home fans except for spilling onto the pitch. The police Won't need to block parts of the ground off as the design of the ground itself with clever use of space will allow for that!

[StudentOwl]

No I'm saying on paper the ground capacity is 39732 officially. 

But it's not. That's the number of seats we have, that isn't the capacity. Leppings Lane is limited to ~4600 seats due to the concourse and health and safety yadda yadda, so straight away that capacity drops to 37500. Add on segregation such as the NW corner not being used and you get about 36000 capacity. And for the big games, that wasn't enough. By all accounts, 39000 wouldn't have been quite enough.

And you're proposing we spend millions on renovating the stadium, but in doing so not addressing these problems of not enough seats but instead accepting it as the norm. That's the definition of going backwards isn't it... spending money and resources to stay exactly the same, isn't the net result a backwards movement?

Edited May 21, 2016 by StudentOwl

[Pompeyowl]

No they won't. Because the home fans will all be in one great big horseshoe designed stand going from the south west to north east with various entry points etc.

The away fans will segregated in a separate stand on the west with seats in the middle of the stand flanked on either side by stadium control on the south part of the west stand and media centre on the north part of the west stand. There will be no way they can get to the home fans except for spilling onto the pitch. The police Won't need to block parts of the ground off as the design of the ground itself with clever use of space will allow for that!

Yes. They will. Because they are ridiculously over the top.

At the moment we have a full block in the North, the North West corner and further obstacles to clamber over to get at the away fans from one side. From the other we have a large area of netted seating, a police control box and further obstacles to climb, while other clubs have merely one line of stewards.

No matter how you put it, the segregation forced on us is nothing short of ridiculous. Reducing the capacity will not do anything to change this.

[ohgoditsjames]

No I'm saying on paper the ground capacity is 39732 officially. Yet we sold out against Arsenal and Brighton but the attendance was under 36000. Therefore we are currently not able to use near enough 4000 seats.

Why not use that space to better effect, make the ground more compact. Have better facilities and more accessible concourses. Plus better acoustics so it's more intimidating to away teams and their fans.

Are you clueless? We didn't sell every single seat because of segregation.

[RobHowe]

No I'm saying on paper the ground capacity is 39732 officially. Yet we sold out against Arsenal and Brighton but the attendance was under 36000. Therefore we are currently not able to use near enough 4000 seats.

Why not use that space to better effect, make the ground more compact. Have better facilities and more accessible concourses. Plus better acoustics so it's more intimidating to away teams and their fans.

So we spend millions on redeveloping the ground just to get the same net effect in terms of capacity and therefore revenue potential?

I'm not sure I get your point on this.

It might be a nice to have but right now we're a Championship club that needs to spend its money wisely and in the right areas IMO.

[SolihullOwl79]

I'm fairly certain I did the maths and put them on here a few months ago... essentially, if you ignore the clubs like QPR and Bournemouth with small stadiums who are already close to selling their full capacity in Championship games- you see an increase in average attendances of between 30 and 40% when you get to the Premier League. We've averaged 22,500 this season, so an extra 30% on top of that is about 29k... so if we say that our minimum average attendance next season would be 30k- you then need to ask what the maximum could be. Obviously 40% would give us 31,500. And then of course you need to consider this is the average. There would be demand far, far, far in excess of your proposed capacity for games against the Manchester clubs, Liverpool and the top London clubs. I know we want to make Hillsborough a horrible place for away teams to visit, but I also don't think we have any right to limit clubs with big away followings to just 3000.

Also the financial implications of that... 3000 at £30 each is £90,000. Both Manchester clubs, Liverpool, and the top London clubs could and probably would sell closer to double that. So that's £90,000 about 4/5 times... in one season alone the club would lose out on about £400,000 in ticket revenue. Never mind any matchday income from food/drink etc (If we finally stop outsourcing that). And that's just considering the away end. In what has been, let's be honest, a decent but not a truly 'remarkable' season (In that no European football, no Premier League football etc), we've had two games this season where people have wanted tickets and unable to get them due to capacity restrictions. It's not something that should be repeated, yet you're proposing we completely redevelop Hillsborough but not rectify this issue.

The 'ideal' scenario is that for most games we see about 80% of Hillsborough being used and that extra 20% is only used for big games... that way we get a 'full' feeling in the stadium while still having extra space for the big games that'll be sellouts. A capacity of 36,000 and limiting the away capacity to under 4000 does not fulfill those conditions.

You do make some very good points there. All I can say is the current capacity of 39000 + is actually more like 35500 given the restrictions.

In respect of fans being unable to get tickets, the club just needs to re adjust its selling policy.

For high demand games they should restrict the number of tickets that fans can buy. I understand season ticket holders were given first priority plus 2 tickets option in play off game. Quite frankly they should have just been allocated their usual seats as per their season ticket automatically and not given the option of buying additional seats.

Next up members should have been able to buy tickets followed by those who'd attended 10 games. Then to those who'd attended 5 games. Tickets should only have been available to those who have an id registered.

Season ticket holders at this stage should then be allowed to purchase additional tickets for family/friends to a maximum of 1 adult and one child each.

Then on general sale where everyone would have the chance to get a ticket.

[daveyboy66]

I fear for the future of mental health nursing

[Pompeyowl]

You do make some very good points there. All I can say is the current capacity of 39000 + is actually more like 35500 given the restrictions.

In respect of fans being unable to get tickets, the club just needs to re adjust its selling policy.

For high demand games they should restrict the number of tickets that fans can buy. I understand season ticket holders were given first priority plus 2 tickets option in play off game. Quite frankly they should have just been allocated their usual seats as per their season ticket automatically and not given the option of buying additional seats.

Next up members should have been able to buy tickets followed by those who'd attended 10 games. Then to those who'd attended 5 games. Tickets should only have been available to those who have an id registered.

Season ticket holders at this stage should then be allowed to purchase additional tickets for family/friends to a maximum of 1 adult and one child each.

Then on general sale where everyone would have the chance to get a ticket.

What?!?!

So you reckon the club should limit the amount of tickets per person, despite the demand to buy them?!

That makes absolutely no sense what so ever.

[StudentOwl]

You do make some very good points there. All I can say is the current capacity of 39000 + is actually more like 35500 given the restrictions.

In respect of fans being unable to get tickets, the club just needs to re adjust its selling policy.

For high demand games they should restrict the number of tickets that fans can buy. I understand season ticket holders were given first priority plus 2 tickets option in play off game. Quite frankly they should have just been allocated their usual seats as per their season ticket automatically and not given the option of buying additional seats.

Next up members should have been able to buy tickets followed by those who'd attended 10 games. Then to those who'd attended 5 games. Tickets should only have been available to those who have an id registered.

Season ticket holders at this stage should then be allowed to purchase additional tickets for family/friends to a maximum of 1 adult and one child each.

Then on general sale where everyone would have the chance to get a ticket.

 

Yeah that would have gone down well.

40 year old Joe Bloggs forced to sit in his normal seat, and if he wants to invite his 8 year old son Jimmy to join him for the big game as a treat he has to tell him he's sitting elsewhere.

"What's that Jimmy, you want to sit near daddy? Well unfortunately I have to sit in my normal seat as a season ticket holder, but you're only going to be a block and a half away from me. Enjoy the footie!" 

What happens if season ticket holders want to invite friends or family along to watch the big game... answer is in your system they have to sit well apart. What a wonderful way to encourage new fans to come!

[Wath-owl]

You couldn't have a horseshoe between the South-Kop-North anyway because the South Stand truss wouldn't allow it.

 

It is impossible to build corners into the ends of the south without dismantling the roof and building a new one.

[SolihullOwl79]

You know what. roger it.

I was just trying to get across that the ground doesn't need to be made bigger to get in more fans when for 66% of the games that additional capacity won't be used and the ground will seem to be empty and ruin the atmosphere. By keeping the capacity pretty much as it is in a more compact design closer to the pitch to make it more intimidating could be worth a good few points over the season. By utilising the space of the ground filling in corners in a horseshoe it could provide opportunity for increased facilities in the stands and a better match day experience which ultimately would encourage casual fans to attend more often.

Quality counts. A big old ground with poor facilities may get filled on odd occasion for big events, but a modernised more compact better equipped and atmospherically enhanced stadium will sell more seats in lesser games.

[Concrete Owl]

West stand roof needs a lick of paint. That'll do for now.

[Ellis Rimmer]

You know what. roger it.

I was just trying to get across that the ground doesn't need to be made bigger to get in more fans when for 66% of the games that additional capacity won't be used and the ground will seem to be empty and ruin the atmosphere. By keeping the capacity pretty much as it is in a more compact design closer to the pitch to make it more intimidating could be worth a good few points over the season. By utilising the space of the ground filling in corners in a horseshoe it could provide opportunity for increased facilities in the stands and a better match day experience which ultimately would encourage casual fans to attend more often.

Quality counts. A big old ground with poor facilities may get filled on odd occasion for big events, but a modernised more compact better equipped and atmospherically enhanced stadium will sell more seats in lesser games.

Club is succesful=More fans

Club is unsuccesful=Less fans

[SolihullOwl79]

Yeah that would have gone down well.

40 year old Joe Bloggs forced to sit in his normal seat, and if he wants to invite his 8 year old son Jimmy to join him for the big game as a treat he has to tell him he's sitting elsewhere.

"What's that Jimmy, you want to sit near daddy? Well unfortunately I have to sit in my normal seat as a season ticket holder, but you're only going to be a block and a half away from me. Enjoy the footie!"

What happens if season ticket holders want to invite friends or family along to watch the big game... answer is in your system they have to sit well apart. What a wonderful way to encourage new fans to come!

Given how cheap it is for a season ticket holder to get an accompanying child season ticket , I would imagine most st holders with children who have an interest in football would also have got their child a ticket at the same time.

If their friends who don't have season tickets don't sit with them at other games then why should they get priority over anybody else when it comes to the big games. Just because Jim is a season ticket holder on the South why should his mate John who only ever goes to S6 once a year at Christmas be given priority over Mike who doesnt know Jim but goes to 7 games a year on the Kop?

[Orlando_Trustful]

What an awful OP