Guest mkowl Posted February 29, 2016 Share Posted February 29, 2016 Not really debt free if we owed CC £4.5m Also note 11 refers to a loan of £1.2m drawn down on 22 Jan 15, repayable 21 January 2016 Might explain why season tickets went on sale early ! We have as we know repaid the external loans of £5.1m Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southportdc Posted February 29, 2016 Share Posted February 29, 2016 Don't this it would do that would it? They don't think it be like it is but it do Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whatahoot Posted February 29, 2016 Share Posted February 29, 2016 Really don't think the season ticket monies in advance will be in escrow. Hate to tell everyone that all season ticket holders are unsecured creditors and if the company went bust we wouldn't have much hope of getting all our money back Reckon Chansiri has put £8.5m in upto 31st May 2015. Accounts show shares issued of £23m, of which £19m was put in to repay the loans UK Football Investments and other 3rd parties had put in. The other £4m was converted from loans put in by CC. He is still owed /assets4.5m The £4m is probably 100% to do with FFP regulations as to how much the owner can put in and leave as debts You are right on the season ticket funds (unused games portion) ...they are treated as unsecured creditors. But as for funds taken on account for future seasons/financial periods, if they can be identified as forward payments against specific items ie season ticket in specified names, they should be treated like solicitors/accountants/estate agents client funds and kept separate from other club funds/income/assets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southportdc Posted February 29, 2016 Share Posted February 29, 2016 Are the three year tickers 3 separate tickets paid up front or one ticket which covers a three year period? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
33 Posted February 29, 2016 Share Posted February 29, 2016 Good to see that they managed to 'cover up' the Wednesdayite Vegas Trip contribution Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
solo Posted February 29, 2016 Share Posted February 29, 2016 Still a 1.6 m charge on hillsborough if my reading is correct on that? Note 1 as well. The accountants seems to think we are not a going concern unless we secure investment from our owner every year. Finally. MM paid back 18million (guessing this was the full amount he put in to the club over his period of time at the club) and something that I don't understand . Says MM owed Wednesday 4mil but transaction was at arms length?? Someone explain that one to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthur Bach Posted February 29, 2016 Share Posted February 29, 2016 Good to see that they managed to 'cover up' the Wednesdayite Vegas Trip contribution An unfunny joke about 7 years too late. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichieB Posted February 29, 2016 Share Posted February 29, 2016 Not really debt free if we owed CC £4.5m Also note 11 refers to a loan of £1.2m drawn down on 22 Jan 15, repayable 21 January 2016 Might explain why season tickets went on sale early ! We have as we know repaid the external loans of £5.1m Why would we owe Carlos Carvalhal £4.5m Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whatahoot Posted February 29, 2016 Share Posted February 29, 2016 Still a 1.6 m charge on hillsborough if my reading is correct on that? Note 1 as well. The accountants seems to think we are not a going concern unless we secure investment from our owner every year. Finally. MM paid back 18million (guessing this was the full amount he put in to the club over his period of time at the club) and something that I don't understand . Says MM owed Wednesday 4mil but transaction was at arms length?? Someone explain that one to me. MM's trust Fund in Channel Isles loaned the club a sum about equal to each years loss, as you say about £18m of accumulated loss showed in y/e accounts May 2014 as a loan. This loan was repaid by transferring this amount in company shares to the Trust Co and then DC bought those shares from the Trust, thereby releasing the stadium from it's First legal charge by the Trust. MM had then to cover losses to the point of the buyout by Chansiri, Feb 2015, which again done "at arms length" via the Trust, presumably to assist MM and his Trust with tax arrangements. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest mkowl Posted February 29, 2016 Share Posted February 29, 2016 Why would we owe Carlos Carvalhal £4.5m Promotion bonus even though he wasn't even the manager then DC not CC of course Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest mkowl Posted February 29, 2016 Share Posted February 29, 2016 Are the three year tickers 3 separate tickets paid up front or one ticket which covers a three year period? Doesn't really matter for FFP accounting - all the season ticket monies recently received will be in deferred income next year 1 year tickets released in the 16/17 accounts 2 year tickets in the 16/17 and 17/18 accounts 3 year tickets in the 16/17, 17/18 and 18/19 accounts There may be some alchemy that means it is not spread equally - discounted cash flows and all that jazz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest mkowl Posted February 29, 2016 Share Posted February 29, 2016 You are right on the season ticket funds (unused games portion) ...they are treated as unsecured creditors. But as for funds taken on account for future seasons/financial periods, if they can be identified as forward payments against specific items ie season ticket in specified names, they should be treated like solicitors/accountants/estate agents client funds and kept separate from other club funds/income/assets. Really do not think it is ringfenced - it is not client money in the sense you are talking about All I know is I had a conversation with an Exec box holder and won't compromise them, who were looking at protecting their position should they decide to pay 3 years upfront Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HirstWhoScoredIt Posted February 29, 2016 Share Posted February 29, 2016 You are right on the season ticket funds (unused games portion) ...they are treated as unsecured creditors. But as for funds taken on account for future seasons/financial periods, if they can be identified as forward payments against specific items ie season ticket in specified names, they should be treated like solicitors/accountants/estate agents client funds and kept separate from other club funds/income/assets. They won't be. They have no legal obligation to do so (unlike a solicitor or IP) Keeping them separate would give no cash flow advantage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daveyboy66 Posted February 29, 2016 Share Posted February 29, 2016 Really do not think it is ringfenced - it is not client money in the sense you are talking about All I know is I had a conversation with an Exec box holder and won't compromise them, who were looking at protecting their position should they decide to pay 3 years upfront Not sure what you mean about protecting their position? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HirstWhoScoredIt Posted February 29, 2016 Share Posted February 29, 2016 (edited) Not sure what you mean about protecting their position?Presumably something that protected them should club go into Admin.I.e. Debenture or PErsonal Guarantee from Chansiri or ring fencing of money. Edited February 29, 2016 by HirstWhoScoredIt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bradowl Posted February 29, 2016 Share Posted February 29, 2016 According to my piggy work mate we're back to square one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whatahoot Posted February 29, 2016 Share Posted February 29, 2016 They won't be. They have no legal obligation to do so (unlike a solicitor or IP) Keeping them separate would give no cash flow advantage. As far as I am aware large ticket agencies operating in other areas of entertainment must keep their customer funds separated from their own company cashflow and bank accounts. Because Wednesday are now doing the same, by selling season tickets forward, there will be some accountancy requirement for them to do the same. Authorities (taxman etc)must be able to identify who's funds are who.If this was not the case, how would anyone, including the directors themselves, be able to calculate if a company was insolvent or not, if it is depending on its customers advanced sales ?.Because Wednesday's financial Y/E is May, the cashflow advantage comes byway of the fact that all the advanced sales in a year would become available immediately in June, the start of a new financial year.Therefore assisting cashflow when income from matchdays has dried up over the summer.albeit other season ticket sales monies would be coming in.It just brings it forward a few months and obviously, they have the advantage of making sales, even if the teams form declines....god forbid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Road Runner Posted February 29, 2016 Share Posted February 29, 2016 According to my piggy work mate we're back to square one. We are 1992-1993 style Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
F. Spiksley Posted February 29, 2016 Share Posted February 29, 2016 flipping easy. Assets v liabilities & Income v expenditure & Cake v ale. Hope Owlstalk can get it's official Owlsaudit out the door before the weekend. Looking forward to the financial experts chipping in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daveyboy66 Posted February 29, 2016 Share Posted February 29, 2016 Presumably something that protected them should club go into Admin. I.e. Debenture or PErsonal Guarantee from Chansiri or ring fencing of money. really... there's someone who coughed up for an exec box for three years who thinks we are going into admin...sounds more like someone gutted that the club are moving forward at long last TBH any ideas? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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