Guest HATETUNALOVECHANSIRI Posted October 8, 2015 Share Posted October 8, 2015 (edited) of course they saw the reaction, as in the gates being smallish, they certainly didn't take notice of kivo and such dissenters on here, as claimed earlier in this thread, if you think using the cat's published before the seasons start, is squirming, and a climb down, well you carry on old boy, this is exactly why they were there simple water testing, no more, no less by the time may comes round, we will have paid an increase of between 15 and 25 percent, depending on how you paid for your admission, that was the plan from the start, but now, you think it was the fans idea low stage 1 season ticket rates, followed by unrealistic stage 3s and pay on the day prices, classic divide and conquer, the club is being run by very astute business men, not del boy and rodney I'm not saying they took notice of individuals and acted on it i'm saying 100% they didn't expect the reaction they got when tickets were priced at £39 for the bristol game from our fans and the rest of the clubs up and down the country, they went too big too soon and are now reverting to prices that should of been implemented at the start. The cat pricing simply allowed them to try and rob the fans but when we came wise to it quickly back down Edited October 8, 2015 by HATETUNALOVECHANSIRI Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HirstWhoScoredIt Posted October 8, 2015 Share Posted October 8, 2015 (edited) I didn't know there was a category G. But why do I care? I have a season ticket. The ticket prices so far:- In order of kop, north, South. Average prices:- Early bird £17.17, £20.87, £23.91 Phase Two £21.74, £26.09, £29.13 Phase three £25.65, £30, £33.04 First half season ticket £27, £32, £35 Match by match basis with membership (when adding £30 membership divided by 23 matches):- £27.93, £30.55, £33.30 Without membership £31 £33.63 £36.38 That is why they have to be careful with category e matches without the odd c and d added in. With each category e, f or g match they have it becomes cheaper to have membership than a phase three season ticket or a first half season ticket. The first half season tickets already look like terrible value in the north and south compared to membership. The other problem being that most of us that have a season ticket don't go to all 23 matches, which further eats into the value of the season ticket compared to membership. People say the current strategy is devised to increase season ticket purchases. To be specific it appears to be aimed at increasing early bird season ticket sales or membership. If you think you will miss a game or two there is no to little incentive in buying phase two, three or half season tickets compared to membership. If Early Bird Prices are the same when announced in the New Year this pricing policy could prove inspired if it drives a considerable increase in season ticket prices. If the Early Bird prices significantly increase then I have no idea what the hell they are doing. Edited October 8, 2015 by HirstWhoScoredIt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sweet Shezza Posted October 8, 2015 Share Posted October 8, 2015 Pretty much copied and pasted because I can't be bothered to do it again. Personally, I think the attendances have dropped well below where we would have been if the ticket prices had for instance stayed the same. I have no proof of this. However, I think my assumptions have far more basis than your comparison with one season. I think Bristol City would have easily brought 4,000+ for the first match of the season after a few years out of the Championship. With the new found optimism amongst our fan base I would have expected at least 28,000 for that match. I think most fans would agree that optimism amongst the fan base is the highest it has been since we were relegated from the PL. Yet our average is 2.5% down on last season. It is 13.6% down on 2012/13 season and even lower than our last season in League One. In fact you have to go back to 2002/03 to find a lower Wednesday average in The Championship. We even averaged higher than we are this season in three of our four seasons in League One. Now in response to this, I would expect people to make two points:- 1. It is early in the season. That is true, however the first match is usually one of the best gates of the season and the huge pre-season optimism should surely have seen gates at the start at least indicative of what we can expect going forwards. 2. We might be making more money. This is the great unknown. With optimism so high, I would expect us to average 24,000+. That is being conservative since we have twice achieved this since relegation from the PL when fans were less optimistic. When calculating the money made people need to remember that approximately 14,000 fans are season tickets (the vast majority early bird) therefore if we should be getting 24,000 and we are actually getting 20,000 we have 6,000 walk up instead of 10,000. Therefore that walk up need to pay 67% more than they would have in previous seasons to get the same income. I don't think our average ticket price has been 67% higher than last season has it? (not sure genuine question). Therefore, in general, my gut feeling is that we are not maximising what our revenue should have been for this season. All of that takes away from the massive missed opportunity of re-engaging with fans that have not been going regularly for many years. The long term plan surely has to be to get Hillsborough full not milk 20,000 fans for as much as we can. Corporate and sponsorship (plus obviously the Sky money) is where the real cash is. Selling corporate and sponsorship packages is a lot easier when there are 30,000 fans in Hillsborough than when there is 20,000. this is notwithstanding that all of the above is pretty irrelevant. Even if the increased prices generate an extra £1m in revenue it is so insignificant that it cannot be the main driver or objective for a Sheffield Wednesday owner. Poor decisions have been made in my opinion and they need to be learned from. Couldn't agree more. The club has also lost out on the food and drink it would have sold and the shirts etc in the club shop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HirstWhoScoredIt Posted October 8, 2015 Share Posted October 8, 2015 The ticket prices so far:- In order of kop, north, South. Average prices:- Early bird £17.17, £20.87, £23.91 Phase Two £21.74, £26.09, £29.13 Phase three £25.65, £30, £33.04 First half season ticket £27, £32, £35 Match by match basis with membership (when adding £30 membership divided by 23 matches):- £27.93, £30.55, £33.30 Without membership £31 £33.63 £36.38 That is why they have to be careful with category e matches without the odd c and d added in. With each category e, f or g match they have it becomes cheaper to have membership than a phase three season ticket or a first half season ticket. The first half season tickets already look like terrible value in the north and south compared to membership. The other problem being that most of us that have a season ticket don't go to all 23 matches, which further eats into the value of the season ticket compared to membership. People say the current strategy is devised to increase season ticket purchases. To be specific it appears to be aimed at increasing early bird season ticket sales or membership. If you think you will miss a game or two there is no to little incentive in buying phase two, three or half season tickets compared to membership. If Early Bird Prices are the same when announced in the New Year this pricing policy could prove inspired if it drives a considerable increase in season ticket prices. If the Early Bird prices significantly increase then I have no idea what the hell they are doing. I obviously meant to say 'If Early Bird Prices are the same when announced in the New Year this pricing policy could prove inspired if it drives a considerable increase in season ticket SALES.' Sorry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nebneeb Posted October 8, 2015 Share Posted October 8, 2015 I obviously meant to say 'If Early Bird Prices are the same when announced in the New Year this pricing policy could prove inspired if it drives a considerable increase in season ticket SALES.' Sorry It was obvious and that was a good post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HirstWhoScoredIt Posted October 8, 2015 Share Posted October 8, 2015 It was obvious and that was a good post. * falls over Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dani_armo Posted October 8, 2015 Share Posted October 8, 2015 You just know that the early bird prices are going to go up to phase 2-3 prices and the whole idea that it was done to encourage season tickets goes out of the window! Be like groundhog day Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Sl-OWL-ly Posted October 8, 2015 Share Posted October 8, 2015 well i've read some stupid theories on here over the years, but to applaud Kivo and Grandad for the lower prices, as though they had something to do with it is simply farcical as every sane fan knows, the pricing in football is scandalous, the club pricing policy was always going to be a suck it and see affair, hence the many different categories, had we averaged 5,000 more per game this year, do you think Kivo's moaning on here would have seen the cat's for Forest and Brighton as they are? Of course not, it's the fans voting with their feet that have driven the prices will the resulting games have a significant crowd increase? I doubt it the club are simply looking to see how much they can maximise income from the gate, Kivo and Grandad, or any other keyboard moaner, have nowt to do with it, two posters from Owlstalk wont influence Chansiri, the tills ringing will Just my opinion but I suspect the tills haven't been ringing quite as loud recently (or maybe that should be "as often").. That said, the two low price games are probably more to do with the Arsenil game than anything else.. Unfortunately ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SouthernOwl24 Posted October 9, 2015 Share Posted October 9, 2015 This isn't a normal business it's a football club. If it was a normal business I would have stopped going in about 1997. They have a battle to win back the fans. Let's hope they have the wherewithal to win it. the only way to win the battle to bring fans back will be good consistent football in the premier league. Regardless of price. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SouthernOwl24 Posted October 9, 2015 Share Posted October 9, 2015 Pretty much copied and pasted because I can't be bothered to do it again. Personally, I think the attendances have dropped well below where we would have been if the ticket prices had for instance stayed the same. I have no proof of this. However, I think my assumptions have far more basis than your comparison with one season. I think Bristol City would have easily brought 4,000+ for the first match of the season after a few years out of the Championship. With the new found optimism amongst our fan base I would have expected at least 28,000 for that match. I think most fans would agree that optimism amongst the fan base is the highest it has been since we were relegated from the PL. Yet our average is 2.5% down on last season. It is 13.6% down on 2012/13 season and even lower than our last season in League One. In fact you have to go back to 2002/03 to find a lower Wednesday average in The Championship. We even averaged higher than we are this season in three of our four seasons in League One. Was price the factor then????? Now in response to this, I would expect people to make two points:- 1. It is early in the season. That is true, however the first match is usually one of the best gates of the season and the huge pre-season optimism should surely have seen gates at the start at least indicative of what we can expect going forwards. Agreed fans are struggling to come to terms with increase and it could have been higher. Problem is that fans had not heard of most of our new players and the trust with SWFC has to be rebuilt. Not all down to price 2. We might are be making more money. This is the great unknown. With optimism so high, I would expect us to average 24,000+. That is being conservative since we have twice achieved this since relegation from the PL when fans were less optimistic. When calculating the money made people need to remember that approximately 14,000 fans are season tickets (the vast majority early bird) therefore if we should be getting 24,000 and we are actually getting 20,000 we have 6,000 walk up instead of 10,000. Therefore that walk up need to pay 67% more than they would have in previous seasons to get the same income. I don't think our average ticket price has been 67% higher than last season has it? (not sure genuine question). Therefore, in general, my gut feeling is that we are not maximising what our revenue should have been for this season. All of that takes away from the massive missed opportunity of re-engaging with fans that have not been going regularly for many years. The long term plan surely has to be to get Hillsborough full not milk 20,000 fans for as much as we can. Corporate and sponsorship (plus obviously the Sky money) is where the real cash is. Selling corporate and sponsorship packages is a lot easier when there are 30,000 fans in Hillsborough than when there is 20,000. this is notwithstanding that all of the above is pretty irrelevant. Even if the increased prices generate an extra £1m in revenue it is so insignificant that it cannot be the main driver or objective for a Sheffield Wednesday owner. 1Million more than previous chairmen has made. If your company had a small increase in revenue I am sure you would be happy. Poor decisions have been made in my opinion and they need to be learned from. Lots of opinions with very few facts. Good post and agree with parts of it but its just down to opinion. Can you honestly say apart from the couple of times we hit 24k average; that the average attendance has dropped dramatically? In my opinion no it has not and this way we are making more money for the club. This really is opinion on what we have spoken about on another thread in regards to value. I respect your opinions but I dont think it has dramatically changed our club the way some owlstalkers are stating. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dorian gray Posted October 9, 2015 Share Posted October 9, 2015 Apologies but was last seasons average 24k? No so where are these mystical 3-4k fans? fans didn't turn up last term 'cos it was dour... this term, it's price... whatever the reason for not turning up, once stopped from the habit, it can take some restarting... the more open, attractive element of our game 'should' be attracting better attendances... cc needs to keep up the good results... any fall off in performances and results could see a reduction in the crowd during the run up to christmas... the whole transformation thing, was a mega jump when proposed... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dorian gray Posted October 9, 2015 Share Posted October 9, 2015 Average since we have been out of the prem is 21,802. Average this year at higher prices is 20,713. 1,100 have been missing. It is not that much. One year we had just under 18k average was this due to prices to? NO Was it due to fans probably getting fed up? YES The 1,100 will be covered by the higher prices of other walkins easily. 20713 is not a bad crowd. It is not the best but by far not the worst. Price, for most, is an excuse. unless you know the ins and outs of other individuals finances then you cannot say it's just an excuse... this is more of the continual 'utterbollox' that some are using to justify their chosen side of the argument... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dorian gray Posted October 9, 2015 Share Posted October 9, 2015 Maybe. Or it was a PR stunt to put fans minds at ease. The £39 will happen again this season so you cannot exactly say it was a mistake so they reduced the category. The categories are there so we have flexibility. Forget the congestion of fixtures for a moment. Brighton on a weekday would be a similar category regardless of congestion. IF that was a pr stunt, it's the biggest own goal in football ever... i bet even blatter's 'avin' a laugh at your post... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markowl Posted October 9, 2015 Share Posted October 9, 2015 fans didn't turn up last term 'cos it was dour... this term, it's price... . unless you know the ins and outs of other individuals finances then you cannot say it's just an excuse.... Yet you can state that the reason crowds are down is because of the price! Have you asked every one of the missing fans the reason why they aren't attending? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dorian gray Posted October 9, 2015 Share Posted October 9, 2015 The ticket prices so far:- In order of kop, north, South. Average prices:- Early bird £17.17, £20.87, £23.91 Phase Two £21.74, £26.09, £29.13 Phase three £25.65, £30, £33.04 First half season ticket £27, £32, £35 Match by match basis with membership (when adding £30 membership divided by 23 matches):- £27.93, £30.55, £33.30 Without membership £31 £33.63 £36.38 That is why they have to be careful with category e matches without the odd c and d added in. With each category e, f or g match they have it becomes cheaper to have membership than a phase three season ticket or a first half season ticket. The first half season tickets already look like terrible value in the north and south compared to membership. The other problem being that most of us that have a season ticket don't go to all 23 matches, which further eats into the value of the season ticket compared to membership. People say the current strategy is devised to increase season ticket purchases. To be specific it appears to be aimed at increasing early bird season ticket sales or membership. If you think you will miss a game or two there is no to little incentive in buying phase two, three or half season tickets compared to membership. If Early Bird Prices are the same when announced in the New Year this pricing policy could prove inspired if it drives a considerable increase in season ticket prices. If the Early Bird prices significantly increase then I have no idea what the hell they are doing. and that, is one of the things that's wrong at present... i don't wanna sit a maths exam... or consult the equivalent of a railway time table to know what it'll cost to get into hillsborough... so i'll stick £50 quid in my pocket, n' hope to come home with some change... it was (initially) too much, too soon... then a (far) too complex recovery was implemented... the deniers won't alter the facts, no matter how much they deny, they got it badly wrong... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dorian gray Posted October 9, 2015 Share Posted October 9, 2015 Lots of opinions with very few facts. Good post and agree with parts of it but its just down to opinion. Can you honestly say apart from the couple of times we hit 24k average; that the average attendance has dropped dramatically? In my opinion no it has not and this way we are making more money for the club. This really is opinion on what we have spoken about on another thread in regards to value. I respect your opinions but I dont think it has dramatically changed our club the way some owlstalkers are stating. just about every post on here is down to opinion... it's a well known fact that facts are not welcome on ot... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dorian gray Posted October 9, 2015 Share Posted October 9, 2015 Yet you can state that the reason crowds are down is because of the price! Have you asked every one of the missing fans the reason why they aren't attending? no, have you? of course not... the fact's are, the football being played is better... by better, bigger name players... the outlook for the team is better than it has been for some time... but the crowds are low, and the prices are (judged) to be too high... let me have a lil' guess at what the vast majority of people would come to for a conclusion (not just wednesday fans)... with what's on offer at s6 in comparison to the previous seasons, the crowds should have been up by 3/6 thousand per league game... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SouthernOwl24 Posted October 9, 2015 Share Posted October 9, 2015 no, have you? of course not... the fact's are, the football being played is better... by better, bigger name players... the outlook for the team is better than it has been for some time... but the crowds are low, and the prices are (judged) to be too high... let me have a lil' guess at what the vast majority of people would come to for a conclusion (not just wednesday fans)... with what's on offer at s6 in comparison to the previous seasons, the crowds should have been up by 3/6 thousand per league game... Yes they should be up by 3/6 thousand games and yes I agree price does play a factor but a small one. The missing thousand were bored of last years, although effective, horrendous football. To get them back we need to prove we are entertaining and 10 league games will not change peoples opinion straight away. Agree the prices will put them off but you must also agree that 15 years of rubbish has also taken its toll and embedded the nightmare in their brain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SouthernOwl24 Posted October 9, 2015 Share Posted October 9, 2015 (edited) Yet you can state that the reason crowds are down is because of the price! Have you asked every one of the missing fans the reason why they aren't attending? Lets put it this way....... Man U sell out Arsenal sell out Chelsea sell out on and on the good teams sell out. Why is this as these three ticket prices are expensive and they play more or the same amount of games. The answer: because they are good. Why do Crewe, Bury, Lincoln etc etc not sell out when their tickets are cheap..... because (no offence) they are poo. Good football will bring fans and bad football will deter fans. Edited October 9, 2015 by SouthernOwl24 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markowl Posted October 9, 2015 Share Posted October 9, 2015 Lets put it this way....... Man U sell out Arsenal sell out Chelsea sell out on and on the good teams sell out. Why is this as these three ticket prices are expensive and they play more or the same amount of games. The answer: because they are good. Why do Crewe, Bury, Lincoln etc etc not sell out when their tickets are cheap..... because (no offence) they are poo. Good football will bring fans and bad football will deter fans. Chelsea are just above the relegation zone Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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