Tactics and the 'committee'

[owlinexile]

Something occurred to me last night about our new set-up that I don't really 'get'. Earlier in the summer when we sacked SG a lot of the 'modern football is awesome' crowd were explaining that the benefit of having a head coach and a committee instead of a normal manager was that you could sack and replace them without any disruption if necessary because the clubs 'philosophy' would be set by someone else, presumably the 'committee'.

I'm not sure exactly what is meant by philosophy but presumably this would involve the formation we play in, the tactics, the type of players we sign etc. It can't just be as simple as 'play aggressive, attacking football' can it? Different managers would have very different ideas about how to achieve that rather vague aim.

What I don't really get is what Carvalhal's actual responsibilities are under such a system? Does he have any say over the formation we play in, the tactics we use etc or is his job simply to get the players to work effectively within a system that is handed down to him by the club? He seems to have his own very clear ideas about how football should be played as evidenced by his book, but was he chosen because these ideas fit in with what the club has already decided?

[Guest totemowl]

Yes.

[Guest PAUL.]

He's the fall guy.....................someone to blame and a dead man walking already in my opinion.

 

 

If we don't start very well, he'll be gone by October

[wednesdaywizard]

He's the fall guy.....................someone to blame and a dead man walking already in my opinion.

 

 

If we don't start very well, he'll be gone by October

 

I can't help but agree with this.  We'll be another short stint on his CV if he doesn't hit the ground running.

 

Sprinting even.

[Random Task]

How I understand it is that he was chosen as his ideas fit into the way it was decided we want to play.

Philosophy doesn't necessarily mean formation or system, in my opinion, it is more an idea on how we want to play the game. More like attractive, possession based football or exciting counter attacking football. You could use different tactics to achieve these two things.

So (I reckon) Carvalhal picks the team, decides the tactics and sets the training. The advantage of the new structure is that if it doesn't work out with Carlos, the players we've signed are likely to fit with the new coaches tactics since, they too, will likely be picked because their ideas fit into the way it was decided we want to play.

Edited July 30, 2015 by Random Task

[sonofbert2]

CC does the tactics etc.  Committee is in charge of the day trip to Llandudno.

[townend_owl]

How I understand it is that he was chosen as his ideas fit into the way it was decided we want to play.

Philosophy doesn't necessarily mean formation or system, in my opinion, it is more an idea on how we want to play the game. More like attractive, possession based football or exciting counter attacking football. You could use different tactics to achieve these two things.

So (I reckon) Carvalhal picks the team, decides the tactics and sets the training. The advantage of the new structure is that if it doesn't work out with Carlos, the players we've signed are likely to fit with the new coaches tactics since, they too, will likely be picked because their ideas fit into the way it was decided we want to play.

 

This

[Swiss Toni]

I think the committee philosophy and CC philosophy sort of roll into one as I'm guessing that CC was initially earmarked to be on the committee but not as head coach. Still think there will be one or two more backroom changes in the near future. CC still has to get his head around the English game.

Edited July 30, 2015 by Babushka1867

[Plonk]

My understanding, having read how it works at Southampton, is that the role of the committee is to have already identified who will replace Carlos. There should be several people already identified in the event of a) Carlos failing and being sacked or b) being a massive success and being whisked away to say  Southampton. 

 

The same should also apply to players, so taking Mathias as the example, if he does really well and we receive a massive offer for him, we can sell knowing that we have several identified targets (as well as one player already at the club) who can slot straight into his role. Hence the importance of two players for each position.

 

The committees role is to ensure those future targets are identified and every aspect of their game and persona studied to ensure they are a fit.

 

We are at the very start of this process so it may not work immediately. the idea is that it ensures the long term stability of the club.

[GoldGigsChris]

The committee premise where individuals could be replaced without affecting the playing philosophy changed when CC was made head coach.

 

We now effectively have a manager, who sets the playing style, decides which players to buy, picks the team and coaches them.

 

The other committee members are now just scouts or academy managers, working under CC.

[WalthamOwl]

Still think it will only be a matter of time before Roeder is in charge 😁

[GoldGigsChris]

Still think it will only be a matter of time before Roeder is in charge

 

If they'd have kept CC as head of philosophy (or whatever), then CC would have been the temporary boss while they find a new guy, not Roeder.

 

I'm hopeful that CC will be successful here, but all managers move on at some point.   It also worries me that we've brought players in from CC's home country to fit in with his way of playing and when CC moves on, the next manager will want to change the way we play and bring in his own players.    Surely the committee was meant to provide continuation and avoid this scenario.

[gurujuan]

Whilst on the subject of tactics, anyone who's seen most of the friendlies, how have we been setting up? From what I've read, it seems we've tried several different systems, sometimes during the same match

[Guest]

He's the fall guy.....................someone to blame and a dead man walking already in my opinion.

 

 

If we don't start very well, he'll be gone by October

 

 

I can't help but agree with this.  We'll be another short stint on his CV if he doesn't hit the ground running.

 

Sprinting even.

 

just roger off

[daveyboy66]

Still think it will only be a matter of time before Roeder is in charge

Of course you do...what troll wouldn't

[since59owe]

Only 3 points will do, if not forthcoming he will be let GO

[SBOwl]

Whilst on the subject of tactics, anyone who's seen most of the friendlies, how have we been setting up? From what I've read, it seems we've tried several different systems, sometimes during the same match

At York and Scunny it was 4-3-3.

Not seem him use any different systems to that.

[brownowl91]

How I understand it is that he was chosen as his ideas fit into the way it was decided we want to play.

Philosophy doesn't necessarily mean formation or system, in my opinion, it is more an idea on how we want to play the game. More like attractive, possession based football or exciting counter attacking football. You could use different tactics to achieve these two things.

So (I reckon) Carvalhal picks the team, decides the tactics and sets the training. The advantage of the new structure is that if it doesn't work out with Carlos, the players we've signed are likely to fit with the new coaches tactics since, they too, will likely be picked because their ideas fit into the way it was decided we want to play.

Agreed

[nevthelodgemoorowl]

Been listening to the Dutch twerp from Manure for too long. LVG refers to Philosophy when he really means ethos. V G is not a Philosopher.  

[Miffed]

All I know is the people are always going on about how other countries are better. For years it was the Brazilians with their "Samba Football" then it was the Spanish with their "tika-taka" and now its the Germans with their total football. After every international tournament everyone harps on about how we are being left behind and should adopt other models. Particularly now that it seems that Germany and Spain have got their acts together not only on the international stage but on the domestic front as well.

For years we have tried the conventional approach and its gotten us nowhere. Now that we seem to be doing something new, a bit different and forward thinking, people are moaning once again. I wonder if these are the same people as I quoted above who want us to follow the German approach, which incidentally didnt just happen overnight and took years for the rewards.

 

We are too bogged down with the Championship Manager approach, one person in charge of everything, contracts, scouting, training, tactics, finances etc etc. I remember one PC game when I was a kid where you even chose the sponsors and designed the stadium upgrades. Being "just" the head coach wouldnt cut it for the manager gamers, not enough to do, and thats not how they signed Messi and Ronaldo and won back to back Champions Leagues. (even without the cheats enabled.)

Wednesday arent the only ones to change to this new model, and just like the German approach, might take some time before it begins to work. Most people have already made their minds up, however and see this as a failure from the off. I say we should embrace the change. Be thankful that we have a forward thinking chairman willing to take risks to hopefully move us onto the next level. Maybe soon we will be the ones with the system that other clubs are thinking about adopting. If we dont all get behind the players, coaching staff and chairman, then we may as will just stay in the past, all because of how you gain success on the virtual field.