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EcclesallOwl

Gervais Martel

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Agreed

Which is why until anything official from our club comes out, we're in the same situation as we were the last time we heard anything official, waiting for ratification and there's no reason to doubt it won't happen.

 

That's what I don't understand. While everyone on both sides seems to happily admit that everything is pure speculation some people take that as a reason to panic.

 

Surely in a situation where you have a lack information the default position is to wait and see how it all pans out, not assume that it's all going boobies up while quoting factually incorrect 'evidence' to back it up (ie. "ratification taking longer than normal", "it can't be a coincidence", "no smoke without fire", etc...)

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read all the link again and get back to us on where the $18M  "defaulted loan payments" are please.The devil is in the detail as they say.

key phrases are all there.

Just as an aside do you think HM has the money for this takeover & do you think the takeover will be ratified by the football league ??.

:mama:  :milan:  lol

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That's what I don't understand. While everyone on both sides seems to happily admit that everything is pure speculation some people take that as a reason to panic.

 

Surely in a situation where you have a lack information the default position is to wait and see how it all pans out, not assume that it's all going boobies up while quoting factually incorrect 'evidence' to back it up (ie. "ratification taking longer than normal", "it can't be a coincidence", "no smoke without fire", etc...)

Yes. Exactly.

Or try and get some credible, recent, relevant information that we can discuss. Some people are trying to do just that but, I suspect the information most people really want isn't actually available. Ergo, wait and see how it pans out (as you correctly said).

 

It's one thing to have a discussion around this issue, it's quite another to whip yourself into a frenzy (either way) about something we know nothing about and have no control over. As has been said before by others here, I don't understand how people get by in the real world with real problems. SWFC is not about to disappear so maybe we should just relax and be patient. Perhaps Milan shouldn't have given the platitudes that he did about things being resolved in a couple of weeks, but for all I know he was acting in good faith on the information available at the time.

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Owlstalk has some great researchers, I don't know what you lot for a living but you're wasted on here.

If HM company was running dry, how come we are now soponsed by them. And if his business was on it's last legs, he would still have his personal wealth.

What did people do before the internet?

Exactly. People seem to forget he has a personal wealth of "reportedly" 1 Billion.

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Football league ffs football league

Sorry Cornelius - my mistake!

90% of what is on this thread is pure speculation - 'I read' or 'the gist' etc. All nonsense. Unless it's an official statement from the club, it's to be taken with a pinch of salt!

But isn't that the whole point? The "gist" of what I've read leads me personally to think there's nothing to worry about. Others will form a different view. All one can do is read the articles and make up their own mind. For example, remember all those articles about human mad cow disease and the supposed epidemic? And after 9/11 all those articles about suitcases nukes? I remember reading them at the time and thinking they were horseshit. I think the same about the articles about mammas financial problems. The key points I mention crop up time and time again, the other points such as bankruptcy and imprisonment in a very small minority of articles. All of which have been denied officially by MAMMADOV. Again that statement is key for me. Anyone who says someone high up should make a statement, seems to be missing the fact that the man himself HAS already released a statement. Not only was it a total denial of the supposed financial difficulties but it was also a statement of intent. The fact it was on OUR website is significant. It's a personal message to me, to you and to every other Sheffield Wednesday fan telling us not to worry.

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read all the link again and get back to us on where the $18M  "defaulted loan payments" are please.The devil is in the detail as they say.

key phrases are all there.

Just as an aside do you think HM has the money for this takeover & do you think the takeover will be ratified by the football league ??.

:mama:  :milan:  lol

 

Sage Owl,

 

S2 is correct that Baghlan group defaulted on a loan payment of $19m against $150m loan

 

From Reuters:

 

 

Baghlan's downgrade reflects the non-payment of debt obligations on its unrated USD150m 14.75% loan participation notes (LPN). The planned bond issue was intended to refinance the majority of its debt obligations.

 

The ratings have been withdrawn as Fitch no longer has sufficient information to maintain the ratings. The current liquidity position of the group and its ability to meet maturing debt obligations including with local banks cannot be assessed.

 

Fitch was recently notified that Baghlan failed to pay the USD19m interest payable on 27 December 2013 on its USD150m LPNs. The LPNs were in technical default on 1 January 2014 following a grace period. As of 7 March 2014 part payment of USD8m had been made.

 

KEY RATING DRIVERS

 

Failure to Refinance

 

Baghlan failed to refinance and extend the majority of its debt facilities as the company did not proceed with its planned bond issue in December 2013. Access to medium-term bank funding is constrained by an under-developed banking market in Azerbaijan. Although Baghlan had largely been dependent on local bank funding it had issued unrated LPNs in June 2012.

 

Challenging Debt Maturities

 

Refinancing risk and its limited ability to extend short-term bank lines is a key rating constraint. Fitch expects that large portions of Baghlan's assets are likely to be pledged as collateral to aid refinancing. The agency also does not expect Baghlan to be able to raise sufficient funds from banks to refinance its USD150m amortising LPNs with a final maturity in 2015.

 

Poor Cash Flow Conversion

 

Solid P&L profits posted over the last three years have not fully converted into cash flow. Negative working capital outflows during 2011 and 2012 have resulted in a working capital requirement of around AZN181m as at FYE12 (inventory plus current receivables less current payables). Unless there is a reversal in the working capital position and payment of the high receivables balance liquidity problems are likely to persist."

 

 

I would add that obviously, the date of the above suggests all parties are fully aware of the situation and that appears to have no relevance to concerned parties ongoing agreement to the sale of SWFC

Edited by B58

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Sage Owl,

S2 is correct that Baghlan group defaulted on a loan payment of $19m against $150m loan

From Reuters:

Baghlan's downgrade reflects the non-payment of debt obligations on its unrated USD150m 14.75% loan participation notes (LPN). The planned bond issue was intended to refinance the majority of its debt obligations.

The ratings have been withdrawn as Fitch no longer has sufficient information to maintain the ratings. The current liquidity position of the group and its ability to meet maturing debt obligations including with local banks cannot be assessed.

Fitch was recently notified that Baghlan failed to pay the USD19m interest payable on 27 December 2013 on its USD150m LPNs. The LPNs were in technical default on 1 January 2014 following a grace period. As of 7 March 2014 part payment of USD8m had been made.

KEY RATING DRIVERS

Failure to Refinance

Baghlan failed to refinance and extend the majority of its debt facilities as the company did not proceed with its planned bond issue in December 2013. Access to medium-term bank funding is constrained by an under-developed banking market in Azerbaijan. Although Baghlan had largely been dependent on local bank funding it had issued unrated LPNs in June 2012.

Challenging Debt Maturities

Refinancing risk and its limited ability to extend short-term bank lines is a key rating constraint. Fitch expects that large portions of Baghlan's assets are likely to be pledged as collateral to aid refinancing. The agency also does not expect Baghlan to be able to raise sufficient funds from banks to refinance its USD150m amortising LPNs with a final maturity in 2015.

Poor Cash Flow Conversion

Solid P&L profits posted over the last three years have not fully converted into cash flow. Negative working capital outflows during 2011 and 2012 have resulted in a working capital requirement of around AZN181m as at FYE12 (inventory plus current receivables less current payables). Unless there is a reversal in the working capital position and payment of the high receivables balance liquidity problems are likely to persist."

I would add that obviously, the date of the above suggests all parties are fully aware of the situation and that appears to have no relevance to concerned parties ongoing agreement to the sale of SWFC

Of course they would. Surely they aren't that daft.

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Sage Owl,

 

S2 is correct that Baghlan group defaulted on a loan payment of $19m against $150m loan

 

From Reuters:

 

 

Baghlan's downgrade reflects the non-payment of debt obligations on its unrated USD150m 14.75% loan participation notes (LPN). The planned bond issue was intended to refinance the majority of its debt obligations.

 

The ratings have been withdrawn as Fitch no longer has sufficient information to maintain the ratings. The current liquidity position of the group and its ability to meet maturing debt obligations including with local banks cannot be assessed.

 

Fitch was recently notified that Baghlan failed to pay the USD19m interest payable on 27 December 2013 on its USD150m LPNs. The LPNs were in technical default on 1 January 2014 following a grace period. As of 7 March 2014 part payment of USD8m had been made.

 

KEY RATING DRIVERS

 

Failure to Refinance

 

Baghlan failed to refinance and extend the majority of its debt facilities as the company did not proceed with its planned bond issue in December 2013. Access to medium-term bank funding is constrained by an under-developed banking market in Azerbaijan. Although Baghlan had largely been dependent on local bank funding it had issued unrated LPNs in June 2012.

 

Challenging Debt Maturities

 

Refinancing risk and its limited ability to extend short-term bank lines is a key rating constraint. Fitch expects that large portions of Baghlan's assets are likely to be pledged as collateral to aid refinancing. The agency also does not expect Baghlan to be able to raise sufficient funds from banks to refinance its USD150m amortising LPNs with a final maturity in 2015.

 

Poor Cash Flow Conversion

 

Solid P&L profits posted over the last three years have not fully converted into cash flow. Negative working capital outflows during 2011 and 2012 have resulted in a working capital requirement of around AZN181m as at FYE12 (inventory plus current receivables less current payables). Unless there is a reversal in the working capital position and payment of the high receivables balance liquidity problems are likely to persist."

 

 

I would add that obviously, the date of the above suggests all parties are fully aware of the situation and that appears to have no relevance to concerned parties ongoing agreement to the sale of SWFC

I'm not doubting there WERE payments missing /late after all we've been looking at this information for several weeks now I only asked for a link to see if it was new information or this existing report.

As i said and no doubt you will know there are lots of keywords /phrases in there that make less worrying than would seem apparent at first reading as was discussed at some length on here several weeks ago.

Unfortunately for you imho your last paragraph is the most important part of your post,oh how you'd like to be wrong this time eh.

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I'm not doubting there WERE payments missing /late after all we've been looking at this information for several weeks now I only asked for a link to see if it was new information or this existing report.

As i said and no doubt you will know there are lots of keywords /phrases in there that make less worrying than would seem apparent at first reading as was discussed at some length on here several weeks ago.

Unfortunately for you imho your last paragraph is the most important part of your post,oh how you'd like to be wrong this time eh.

 

 

Wrong Sage Owl

 

First of all I think the deal will go through

 

Furthermore, why should I be that bothered about your pending new owner? I am actually of the opinion you are walking into potentially unknown and possibly dangerous territory for your club longer term

 

If he were on his way to be our owner, it would sit a little uncomfortably with me. However, if you are happy then that's all that matters

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Wrong Sage Owl

First of all I think the deal will go through

Furthermore, why should I be that bothered about your pending new owner? I am actually of the opinion you are walking into potentially unknown and possibly dangerous territory for your club longer term

If he were on his way to be our owner, it would sit a little uncomfortably with me. However, if you are happy then that's all that matters

But you don't need to worry cus you've got the pound land prince spun king money on top players.....oh wait! Enjoy another year in the third division

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B58 is being more balanced than loads of the 'Owls' and is getting slaughtered for it...

Edited by Random Task
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B58 is being more balanced than loads of the 'Owls' and is getting slaughtered for it...

 

its the culture i talked about in the DR... people can no longer take criticism for so called "outsiders" even though more than often have a clearer view of things as they not blinded by so called blind loyalty. 

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OK, things I dont understnad here, please can anyone help?

 

Whats the connection between, Bahglan and Land of fire?,would have thought that Land of Fire was the country/Government , therefore our sponsor money comes form them, via HM influence and not his own money?, if I am right , causes me more concern he may be bust.

 

Secondly, Why has he paid , over the odds for us?, we aint valued at £40 m, is this jsut a way to get money out of Azer?,

 

The arrest cliams, what if he wasnt arrested, but refused the right to leave the country, ?,

 

Also if money shortage wasnt a worry , MM would have got the underwater mobile out and said chill , I have been paid, he aint skint?

 

must admit, More concerned with every day.Think MM may have meet his match,  ,  

 

He stumped up £38 million though.

 

Why assume the extra £10 million is cause hes broke?

 

The arrest claims were false.

 

MM making statements for sake of it on situations in France won't help

Edited by Belfast Owl 2

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Shhhhhhhhhhhh Wednesday newwwwwwws coming soooooooooon #masssssssive

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Wrong Sage Owl

 

First of all I think the deal will go through

 

Furthermore, why should I be that bothered about your pending new owner? I am actually of the opinion you are walking into potentially unknown and possibly dangerous territory for your club longer term

 

If he were on his way to be our owner, it would sit a little uncomfortably with me. However, if you are happy then that's all that matters

Slightly different subject now all i was driving at originally was that imo HM does have the money to buy us.

As for being entirely happy or comfortable with the takeover I certainly have a few concerns.

For what it's worth my main concern is how closely our new owner is tied to a foreign government and banking system.On purely personal note i would have liked our new owner to have been a local life long Wednesday fan,but as we know that doesn't always work out.

In the end there's nowt i can do to influence it so I'm going to sit back and enjoy the ride.

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He stumped up £38 million though.

Why assume the extra £10 million is cause hes broke?

The arrest claims were false.

MM making statements for sake of it on situations in France won't help

Also why would MM make a statement when HM has already done so.

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At the end of the day, when all said and done etc etc, rich people's business dealings are always shrouded in a bit of mystery. On one hand they look poor but then they go out and buy a new company, it happens all the time. HM seems to have his finger in a lot of Azerbaijani pies and they are still a very rich country with natural reserves in oil, gas and gold I was reading the other day. He and his family will be involved somewhere along the line. I'm sure the takeover will happen, we just have to be patient. I think we've all been through the ringer as owls and we just want to be able to compete at the top like we used to do. We have to trust in Milan as we have no choice or influence otherwise.

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I'd just like to add point that mammadov hasn't paid any cash at all this season.

He's guaranteed 18 million and thought that would be enough but the DNCG wants 10 mil in cash as well.

This is the problem as mammadov thinks the fact he invested 20 mil last year as well as guarantying 18 mil is enough.

In the UK I guess it would.

"Gervais Martel has also confirmed that he suggested last week ( La Voix du Nord on Thursday, 17): the majority shareholder of the club he told us " angry "Is actually" very annoyed applications DNCG. It has already secured 18 million €, brought 20 million € last year, he decided not to pay the 10 million € because it does not match the operation. It is not the function it has to Baku, nor with Atletico Madrid. Little French and clubs must bring all their funds at the beginning of season ".

Now whether the DNCG wants the 10mil because of the reports of financial troubles or whether the FL is worried about this is just speculation.

I guess the concern is, if he's that rich and money is no object to promote Azerbaijan, then why is he pssin about with €10m if it risks lens being relegated?

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I'd just like to add point that mammadov hasn't paid any cash at all this season.

He's guaranteed 18 million and thought that would be enough but the DNCG wants 10 mil in cash as well.

This is the problem as mammadov thinks the fact he invested 20 mil last year as well as guarantying 18 mil is enough.

In the UK I guess it would.

"Gervais Martel has also confirmed that he suggested last week ( La Voix du Nord on Thursday, 17): the majority shareholder of the club he told us " angry "Is actually" very annoyed applications DNCG. It has already secured 18 million €, brought 20 million € last year, he decided not to pay the 10 million € because it does not match the operation. It is not the function it has to Baku, nor with Atletico Madrid. Little French and clubs must bring all their funds at the beginning of season ".

Now whether the DNCG wants the 10mil because of the reports of financial troubles or whether the FL is worried about this is just speculation.

I guess the concern is, if he's that rich and money is no object to promote Azerbaijan, then why is he pssin about with €10m if it risks lens being relegated?

Maybe it's just because he's a man of principle

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