Out of contract players- who stays, who goes

[Guest AbbeyOwl]

I frightening day in my life I agree with JontheOwl

[Guest JonTheOwl66]

Who? Helan, yes. Mattock? No. Every time he gets a run in the team, he either breaks down or gets himself suspended. As I put in other posts, I see Reda moving back to CB long term anyway. But his versatility covering the two positions is a good reason for him to be the 3rd person you speak of.

How can you rate Johnson similarly to loovens or Gooch?

He's absolutely attrocious on the ball, his positioning is usually fairly woeful, he has little to no pace and is constantly caught out at full back - never mind centre back.

His first spell with us as a centre back was horrifying.

[Guest wilyfox]

Reda Johnson should never go anywhere near centre back for us again.

Because he couldn't possibly learn or improve during his 3yrs here? Experience, maturity, positioning, reading of the game....these cannot develop? Beats me why people are still so insistent, regarding players. We've seen Lee effectively move to CM, Maguire turn in some great performances outwide, Palmer performing better at RB than CM - where many were insisting he belonged. Things change..

[Guest JonTheOwl66]

Because he couldn't possibly learn or improve during his 3yrs here? Experience, maturity, positioning, reading of the game....these cannot develop? Beats me why people are still so insistent, regarding players. We've seen Lee effectively move to CM, Maguire turn in some great performances outwide, Palmer performing better at RB than CM - where many were insisting he belonged. Things change..

I can't see how Reda could improve as a centre back by playing left back and spending significant periods of time out injured

Obviously you can watch other players and learn about positioning etc while injured

But when it comes to applying it in game, it's a different story entirely

He's spent a lot of his time at centre back, and has been awful

Plus, I don't get why you'd switch him from his best position now.

[Guest wilyfox]

I can't see how Reda could improve as a centre back by playing left back and spending significant periods of time out injured

Obviously you can watch other players and learn about positioning etc while injured

But when it comes to applying it in game, it's a different story entirely

He's spent a lot of his time at centre back, and has been awful

Plus, I don't get why you'd switch him from his best position now.

He has missed a fair amount of football. He's also played over 70 league games for us; There will be benefits to that. As for LB being his best position...I don't think it ever was. He was struggling at CB initially after he joined (in fairness, our back 4 were strangers at that time with Reda, Morrison and Reynolds coming in), and moving him to LB allowed Megson to keep an effective weapon in the team. Reda is an unorthodox - yet effective - player for us. Megson knew it, DJ recognised it, and had he been fit recently, Gray probably would have utilised him as well.

[gurujuan]

Reda Johnson should never go anywhere near centre back for us again.

He certainly wasn't great Against that, he was one of the best centre backs in the division when we signed him from Plymouth. Also, he was playing alongside Morrison, who was equally palpable during that brief period. People quickly made their minds up about him, and he went on to win the Player of the Season with Charlton. Not saying he's the answer for us at centre back, but I suspect he's actually better than most of us think. If we can use him as cover in both positions, then perhaps we could keep him.

It's all very well us saying lets just have a clear out, but if all those out of contract move on and the loanees go back, we'll be left with a squad of about 12 players who have made any sort of meaningful contribution this season. With only 4 or 5 apparently coming in, that would leave us well short of quad depth, probably a further six players short.

[Bluesteel]

I think we'd regret releasing reda

[Guest JonTheOwl66]

All if buts and maybes.

I could say right now that Hutchinson will never have problems with his knees again - doesn't mean it's going to happen

Reda is, as you say, effective for us because he scores quite a few goals.

It doesn't mean we should offer him a ten year contract. He has very very big flaws in his game. And at times his defending has been horrific.

Joe Mattock is a considerably better player..

All you have to do is look at how were supposed to have progressed this year - and reda hasnt really been a part of that.

We now want to progress onto a playoff team. Hence, we need to improve again.

However, IMO, Reda will get a new contract as Mandaric shelled out quite a lot of money for him.

[gurujuan]

All if buts and maybes.

I could say right now that Hutchinson will never have problems with his knees again - doesn't mean it's going to happen

Reda is, as you say, effective for us because he scores quite a few goals.

It doesn't mean we should offer him a ten year contract. He has very very big flaws in his game. And at times his defending has been horrific.

Joe Mattock is a considerably better player..

All you have to do is look at how were supposed to have progressed this year - and reda hasnt really been a part of that.

We now want to progress onto a playoff team. Hence, we need to improve again.

However, IMO, Reda will get a new contract as Mandaric shelled out quite a lot of money for him.

Jon, aside from the Reda issue, who else out of the out of contract players do you think we should try and keep bearing in mind that if we keep none, we'll have about a dozen players

[Guest wilyfox]

All if buts and maybes.

I could say right now that Hutchinson will never have problems with his knees again - doesn't mean it's going to happen

But we do know that Hutchinson has one particular problem that has troubled him throughout his playing career - and will most likely continue to do so: and therein lies the difference...Reda's had several different injuries. Do we know in fact that any of them are career threatening in the way Hutchinson's is?

[Hawkeye]

I had to laugh at this thread.

"Release reda, hes always injured. But offer gardner and loovens new deals"..

Because of his age, potential resale value, previous performances and being able to cover a couple of positions, I expect reda to get a new deal.

Plus hes better than mattock.

Aside from kirkland and semedo, im nonplussed about the rest. All fairly replaceable.

[Guest JonTheOwl66]

Jon, aside from the Reda issue, who else out of the out of contract players do you think we should try and keep bearing in mind that if we keep none, we'll have about a dozen players

Kirkland, Onyewu, Loovens, Semedo.

That's it. Complete rebuilding this summer.

I had to laugh at this thread.

"Release reda, hes always injured. But offer gardner and loovens new deals"..

Because of his age, potential resale value, previous performances and being able to cover a couple of positions, I expect reda to get a new deal.

Plus hes better than mattock.

Aside from kirkland and semedo, im nonplussed about the rest. All fairly replaceable.

Serious question - who do you see ever shelling out significant money for Reda?

[Guest JonTheOwl66]

But we do know that Hutchinson has one particular problem that has troubled him throughout his playing career - and will most likely continue to do so: and therein lies the difference...Reda's had several different injuries. Do we know in fact that any of them are career threatening in the way Hutchinson's is?

Surely Reda having had serious injuries in lots of different areas is more concerning than one area?

If I remember correctly, Reda has had back, hip and ankle injuries.

Not good.

We can argue about this all day. My belief is that Reda is too injury prone to be worth giving another contract, and we can do considerably better elsewhere.

[matthefish2002]

Read Johnson must have missed about 50% of games since we have got him.

Think people are letting there heart rule they head by saying we shoudl give him another contract.

[Guest wilyfox]

Surely Reda having had serious injuries in lots of different areas is more concerning than one area?

How so? Hutchinson was forced to quit the game as a result of his. Reda hasn't, and he's played a lot more games in his career. I guess it's a semantic argument of how you define a "serious injury". One that keeps you out for a considerable period, or one that never heals properly and continues to cause problems? I'd have thought the latter. Gardner joined after a nasty hamstring tear off the bone. But he recovered fully and played a full season after. His current injury is obviously different. Hutchinson has never gotten over his.

[gurujuan]

Kirkland, Onyewu, Loovens, Semedo.

That's it. Complete rebuilding this summer.

Serious question - who do you see ever shelling out significant money for Reda?

Yes those are the four I'd definitely be offering contracts to, although I'd be sceptical that Gooch would stay. If you believe Milan when he says we won't be bringing many in, then we'd still be short of numbers

[Corneliusreeve]

That's an understatement. Long term, I don't see Reda as competition for Helan and Mattock. He'll probably return to CB at some point, with the benefit of experience his games at LB have given him. I'd keep Reda and let Llera go. I wouldn't judge him against our other LBs because he isn't one; it was a way to accommodate him in the team.

 

Well if SG sees it that way he may be staying, but I doubt it.

 

It's a real shame but he's never fit and therefore I would release him.

[kilbyj]

All those saying reda is crap, look at the squad win rate with him in the team and without! You'll be surprised!

Plus he scores when he wants, 1 year rolling deal

[York_Owl]

Yes those are the four I'd definitely be offering contracts to, although I'd be sceptical that Gooch would stay. If you believe Milan when he says we won't be bringing many in, then we'd still be short of numbers

That's why I'd also re-sign Reda.  He would be a "squad" player only providing cover at both left back and centre back (at centre half he would probably be 4th or 5th choice behind Gooch, Loovens, Zayatte and possibly Buxton).

 

This would mean our defence is pretty much sorted so we can focus on bringing in quality in the key areas for us e.g. up front, centre mid and possibly left mid especially if Helan is now seen as more of a left back.

[Guest JonTheOwl66]

How so? Hutchinson was forced to quit the game as a result of his. Reda hasn't, and he's played a lot more games in his career. I guess it's a semantic argument of how you define a "serious injury". One that keeps you out for a considerable period, or one that never heals properly and continues to cause problems? I'd have thought the latter. Gardner joined after a nasty hamstring tear off the bone. But he recovered fully and played a full season after. His current injury is obviously different. Hutchinson has never gotten over his.

I believe Hutch retired on doctors advice. He would run the risk of being permanently disabled if he got another serious injury, so decided not to take the risk.

The funny thing is, you say Reda's aren't 'serious' - but I remember reading that the guy travelled all around the world visiting specialists who couldn't pin down exactly what was wrong.

If that isn't serious - then I don't know what is.

I'm sure Reda's injury problems all stemmed from Jones rushing him back too soon. Vaguely remember that.

And since then, he's had some dreadful problems.

Anyway, like I said I don't believe Hutchinson should be signed, I don't believe Reda should be offered a new contract, and I think Gardner should be lot go

On paper, they're all good Championship players. Over the course of a season though, they miss too many games and don't justify their wages in the few games they do play

People complain about us not having a depth to our squad, but the reality is our squad is fairly big - its just all hinged around players with injury problems.

Look at Antonio, look at JJ, look at Lee, look at Buxton, look at Taylor, look at Zayatte. That's six played who have all had serious injuries before in our squad - keeping them our for months

We need to sort this out