doubled123456 Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 It actually isn't. In the same way that defenders do their jobs collectively rather than individually, the same should apply to forward players. Do we measure centre backs by how many headers they win or tackles they make? As long as the system is working, what does it matter who is actually getting the goals? If you look at the statistics, you might be surprised by how many teams in the lower half of a division has a striker with an impressive strike rate (Jordan Rhodes at Blackburn is one example) whilst teams keep making a habit of getting promoted without them (a couple of years ago I think it was, two of the four division champions had no one score more than about a dozen). For his last few seasons, Dennis Bergkamp averaged about 7 goals per year, but it didn't stop Arsenal winning trophies because he was an integral part of a system that was effective and he helped Henry to finish things off. Obviously having prolific strikers helps, but it absolutely is not a pre-requisite. The current Premier League leaders don't have a striker with more than 6 goals in the league so far. That is not necessarily a defence of Nuhiu though. I don't believe he deserves as much criticism as he gets, but he obviously is not the goal threat we need, especially when no one else in the team has been getting plenty of goals for an extended period. If it wasn't for Kenwyne Jones, we would not have been promoted several years ago. If it wasn't for RVP, Manu would not have won the league last season. All in my opinion of course. So in our case it was a pre-requiste and also Manu. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Snooty Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 (edited) I don't really rate the chap for anything other than his clear will to do his best But I do find it remarkable that people seem to think he doesn't head the ball. I can think of only Llera and Boyce who headed the ball more than him last night. So much has changed in modern football. Perhaps I should check what the new definition of a header is if what I saw are no longer regarded as headers. Edited February 12, 2014 by Lord Snooty Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Big Guns Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 if he could head we could play him centre back on satday Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJMortimer Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 The failing of Chelsea's strikers to score on a regular basis is exactly that - a failing, and not something to emulate. How can you say that scoring goals is not a prerequisite, followed by Nuhiu 'obviously is not the goal threat we need'? If he is neither a regular scorer or part of a successful collaboration up front, then he falls short of the requirements for his position. I have now stated twice that I'm not justifying Nuhiu's place in the team because he is offering neither the goals nor the service for others to get them. Were he achieving one of those, you could forgive a lack of the other. He is fairly useful in a deeper role but there are others who could do that at least as well. I'm really not concerned about how goals are spread as long as the unit as a whole is working. Sometimes a system can be about midfielders getting beyond the front players to weigh in with more than usual (not really our's though). As long as strikers aren't wasting a high percentage of whatever chances they get and the team is scoring enough to win, then the principle is working. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest wilyfox Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 I'm also confused by the assumption that just because a bloke is three or four inches taller than another that it somehow automatically improves his ability to head a football. Bizarre post of the day. His height is such an obvious advantage. Many tall strikers have been sought after and made a career from the aerial advantage their frame gave them eg. Crouch, Zigic, Carew, Koller to name a few. I doubt Everton borrowed the 6'8" Lacina Traore for his step-overs. Nuhiu has probably been lanky since his early-mid teens - and his coaches will no doubt have trained him in ways to maximise his talent. He should be more dominant in the air than he is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sanderbeard Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 Wouldn`t get 10 goals in league 2.Might need to move up to Scotland to find his level. What league I don`t know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJMortimer Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 If it wasn't for Kenwyne Jones, we would not have been promoted several years ago. If it wasn't for RVP, Manu would not have won the league last season. All in my opinion of course. So in our case it was a pre-requiste and also Manu. Obviously having someone capable of converting a high percentage of chances is a big help, but countless teams have shown it is not essential. Jordan Rhodes scored 26 league goals last season but his team seriously flirted with relegation. When we went down in 1990, Atkinson (15) and Hirst (16) managed a healthy return but it was the lack of support from elsewhere that was our undoing as no one else got more than 5. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJMortimer Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 Bizarre post of the day. His height is such an obvious advantage. There is a distinction between getting your head to the ball in the first place (obviously assisted by height) and actually being any good at effectively directing it where you want it to go. I apologise if some of my points are too subtle for the 'tall blokez shud be gud edders innit' level of the debate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Hunt Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 One thing that amazes and appals me. We have done nothing on this topic but criticise Nuhiu's ability to HEAD a ball. This bring in two points that have long annoyed me about succesive Wednesday teams. Yesterday, until he dying minutes when Antonio tried his long throws, the only person who was in a position to receive a throw-in was Nuhiu., and he was instantly covered by two large defenders, one in front, one behind. This meant his only alternative was to try flick-heading the ball over the defender for someone to pick up (something he did very successfully on a number of occasions with no one to take the ensuing ball) Wigan invariably had a man clear to throw the ball to. Our players NEVER take up these positions, and I sometimes feel the thrower should throw it to the opponents to make this point. The other is why are we focusing on the high ball all the time, when we have proved time and again that we are so much better when playing FOOTball, in other words, on the ground. This has been our strength over the last run, but yesterday we came up against a side who closed us down , and had large central defenders. If you read my post the biggest failing in his game is his pace (or lack of it ) i thought his heading last night was a improvement and that can be improved through coaching and improved positional sense , what you cannot do is inject pace into a player , and for that reason I'm out . and so should he . Steve Howard or Big Mama are better or more effective players and they are past it . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan™ Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 (edited) He's got no chance here then, I thought he had a good game yesterday. Afobe did nothing except miss a one on one, so the mini-uproar when we was substituted instead of Nuhiu was a bit embarrassing really. He'd probably be my 3rd or 4th top player from last night, after at least Lee and Maguire who were both positive all night again. If Nuhiu just had Maguire's confidence to put his foot through the ball whenever he saw the whites of the goal we'd see a completely different player. PS. If anyone deserves criticism last night it was Palmer, not Nuhiu. Edited February 12, 2014 by Dan™ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest wilyfox Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 There is a distinction between getting your head to the ball in the first place (obviously assisted by height) and actually being any good at effectively directing it where you want it to go. I apologise if some of my points are too subtle for the 'tall blokez shud be gud edders innit' level of the debate. You don't think that he would have been encouraged to train his heading skills extensively, because of his height? That training would not improve his ability? I bet people were constantly telling Owen & Walcott to run slower as well... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rodger Wylde Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 I don't think people 'hate' Nuihu, it's just that he's not very good. He's also not a scapegoat as scapegoats receive unmerited criticism and are blamed for other peoples failings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Snooty Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 You don't think that he would have been encouraged to train his heading skills extensively, because of his height? That training would not improve his ability? I bet people were constantly telling Owen & Walcott to run slower as well... A great idea! Walcotts feet are too quick for his brain... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJMortimer Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 (edited) You don't think that he would have been encouraged to train his heading skills extensively, because of his height? That training would not improve his ability? I bet people were constantly telling Owen & Walcott to run slower as well... I'm sure he would. But if the bloke has mediocre co-ordination or something of that nature, there's only so much you can do with it. Edited February 12, 2014 by DJMortimer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan™ Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 You don't think that he would have been encouraged to train his heading skills extensively, because of his height? That training would not improve his ability? I bet people were constantly telling Owen & Walcott to run slower as well... I guess logic and reasoning skills were never your strong point. Maybe you took a class in straw man arguments instead? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest wilyfox Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 I'm sure he would. But if the bloke has mediocre co-ordination or something of that nature, there's only so much you can do with it. Exactly, so he shouldn't play if he can't do the things he's picked for. He's not meeting the requirements for himself personally or his role within the team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest wilyfox Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 I guess logic and reasoning skills were never your strong point. Maybe you took a class in straw man arguments instead? Maybe you can get past insults - I doubt it though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baz.thornton Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 My two peneth is this. He is getting into scoring positions, and missing badly. However, he is still getting into goal scoring positions. His confidence looks shot to me, but sooner or later, one will go in and maybe more will follow. What I do know is Gerald SIbon was gash in his first season, and only started to look the park in his second - Hopefully our new big fella will be the same. Goal scoring positions, does that mean walking into the box, holding your markers hand,. Never attacks the ball, never gets in front of his marker, wee wee poor shot, 6`7" tall 6`0" when he jumps, sorry, goes to head the ball. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weshallovercome Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 Expected him to be released by now. I give him another 6 games. Adieu Atdhe? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
owls66 Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 I certainly don't dislike him. Though I don't think he could have played any worse last night. Big, big improvements needed by him if he wants any sort of future playing at this level. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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