bazapeps Posted February 24, 2013 Share Posted February 24, 2013 Dave Jones kept saying during the bad run in September to December that our players we young, developing, it was a learning curve, we're trying to teach them to play at this level etc etc. Now since we've been winning games DJ has come out saying things like the players have learnt, grown, developed to playing at this level, listening to what we've told them, gained experience etc etc. He makes it sounds like the players we had/he brought in just needed time. Now is this really the cause of our turn round in fortunes? Have our players actually grown and developed? Which players is he referring to? Looking at the players involved recently that also played during the bad run - Kirkland has been reliable all season, Gardner has improved as the season has gone but he's an experienced pro so I doubt DJ was referring to him, Llera has done well but still has the odd shocker in him, Antonio has been consistent all season (if anything poor recently but still provides a goal and assist). So who is he speaking about? The team since early-mid December has been drastically changed in terms of personnel. Just think of the players involved during the bad run - Taylor, Mattock, Dan Jones, corry, semedo, Mccabe, pecnic, bothroyd, mayor, COG, Madine, Lines, Maguire, JJ. These were regular players early in the season. Now they haven't developed, they've either been dropped or shipped out completely. It's almost like DJ realised that his first batch of signings simply were not good enough so he's had another go. The players we have now are pretty much not the ones involved during the bad run. Buxton returned to fitness, Reda found fitness, Pugh brough in on loan, Helan on loan, prutton and coke almost stumbled on as a desperate resort which fortunately paid off, Lee finally given a chance and taking it, lita and wickham on loan. Has the upturn in fortune therefore not been due to a change in personnel. Perhaps DJ realising that other players in the squad deserved a shot. Perhaps Milan realising that we needed better quality and stumping up the cash for loans that will really make a difference. Now I dont want this to sound like a criticism of DJ, i'm delighted that fortunes have changed. But hearing fans saying things like DJ just needed time with the players etc, DJ has turned it around etc just doesnt wholly make sense. If we still had the squad we had back in september/October then we simply would be relegated by now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daveyboy66 Posted February 24, 2013 Share Posted February 24, 2013 So what you are saying is that DJ was lying when he said our players have developed and are learning to play in this league? Mind you...you're not being critical or anything Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roscoe P. Coltrane Posted February 24, 2013 Share Posted February 24, 2013 Can't believe it's the end of the learning curve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheEnchanter Posted February 24, 2013 Share Posted February 24, 2013 You cant actually measure 'development' and 'growth' in a footballer. I think it just means theyve all got better. Its just jargon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommo_ Posted February 24, 2013 Share Posted February 24, 2013 It does take time for most teams to adjust to better leagues Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daveyboy66 Posted February 24, 2013 Share Posted February 24, 2013 It does take time for most teams to adjust to better leagues ^^^^^^^^^ this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swfc-dan Posted February 24, 2013 Share Posted February 24, 2013 Agree with a hell of a lot with you tbh. The younger players havent developed yet, theyve been sent out on loan or on the bench. The more experienced players in Lita, Pugh are what have made the difference along with a few younger loans. That and going back to 442 and just getting more consistency from our older pros. The team spirit and work rate is much better too. Not sure what DJ is meaning if he said the players have developed, moreso the togetherness and team spirit has. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PopePiusX Posted February 24, 2013 Share Posted February 24, 2013 It does take time for most teams to adjust to better leagues Yeah, this is normally true, but it's been skewed by people thinking teams 'doing a Southampton' or 'doing a Norwich' is the norm, when in fact it isn't. Occasionally teams get promoted because they have fantastic resources, and then they might do that, but we're being run properly and sensibly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2soon Posted February 24, 2013 Share Posted February 24, 2013 we needed something extra, the first bunch didn't work, the second lot have. given the budget we have I think he has done well and has deffo turned around my view. I still think he made really bad decisions regarding the suggested contracts offered to the first set of loan signings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
longreach Posted February 24, 2013 Share Posted February 24, 2013 It does take time for most teams to adjust to better leagues ...And players. Many moons ago I played for a team in the old Bible Class League (yes I know) and was picked to play for the Coach and Horses in Millhouses. They were a top team in those days, I thought I'd run into hell, brought off after half an hour but kept with it and became a regular after 12 months. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
camffiti Posted February 24, 2013 Share Posted February 24, 2013 We've gone back to some more of last years players and signed even more loanees. It looks like DJ is now starting to trust Lee more though, so maybe that's an example of the learning curve? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swfc-dan Posted February 24, 2013 Share Posted February 24, 2013 Lee is one of the few you could say has 'grown'. Still would like to see him at RB sometime, bet hed be even better there. But hes a great backup to Buxton. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bazapeps Posted February 24, 2013 Author Share Posted February 24, 2013 We've gone back to some more of last years players and signed even more loanees. It looks like DJ is now starting to trust Lee more though, so maybe that's an example of the learning curve? Lee wasnt playing before so what has he leant? I think its more a case of DJ and MM learning that the players that were playing week in week out simply werent up to it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WatfordOwl Posted February 24, 2013 Share Posted February 24, 2013 They have developed and grown......learnt how to get results at this level no question. 1 defeat in 13 league games proves it With the resources at his disposal in terms of the wages/transfer budget it was never going to be perfect from the outset.....name me a manager in the world that would have had us winning every game with the same set up right from the off? We've adapted to a different style of play this season after heavily recruiting in the summer and of course not every one of those players will work out all of the time. DJ spoke constantly about certain players not being 'ready' for this level of football but when he has now given them the chance they've wanted it and grabbed it with both hands. Needing time with the players makes 100% sense when you bring in as many players as we did over the close season, they hadn't played together...don't know the strengths and weaknesses of one another and also haven't bonded as a group. How people can question DJ's ability to coach, build and motivate a group of players is beyond me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cross owl Posted February 24, 2013 Share Posted February 24, 2013 (edited) the teams we came up with , udders had a honeymoon period and are now staring at relegation and the mouth of the south are only three points above us and considering we blew points at bristol and wolves we could well have been above charltalona . we've taken our time to find our feet in this league which is better than a fleeting honeymoon period followed be struggle Edited February 24, 2013 by cross owl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJMortimer Posted February 24, 2013 Share Posted February 24, 2013 It's almost like DJ realised that his first batch of signings simply were not good enough so he's had another go. The players we have now are pretty much not the ones involved during the bad run. Buxton returned to fitness, Reda found fitness, Pugh brough in on loan, Helan on loan, prutton and coke almost stumbled on as a desperate resort which fortunately paid off, Lee finally given a chance and taking it, lita and wickham on loan. Buxton has missed only 5 league games all season, Reda has only played in 10, Pugh, Lita and Wickham all arrived way after the turnaround was well underway. These examples are indicative of someone reaching a conclusion then tailoring evidence to fit, rather than the much more reliable method of conducting this process the other way round. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steelowl Posted February 24, 2013 Share Posted February 24, 2013 Lee wasnt playing before so what has he leant? I think its more a case of DJ and MM learning that the players that were playing week in week out simply werent up to it cant disagree Lee did nothing wrong other than not being picked along with coke and prutton who knows maguire could be the next brilliant discovery of DJ's Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sonny Posted February 24, 2013 Share Posted February 24, 2013 Keep clinging guys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest wilyfox Posted February 24, 2013 Share Posted February 24, 2013 (edited) Now I dont want this to sound like a criticism of DJ, i'm delighted that fortunes have changed. But hearing fans saying things like DJ just needed time with the players etc, DJ has turned it around etc just doesnt wholly make sense. If we still had the squad we had back in september/October then we simply would be relegated by now. But, to be fair, our defense has remained the same for most of the season (LB being the exception due to Reda's injury); and yet we're not conceding the same quantity of cheap & soft goals that we were earlier in the season - so there must be an element of truth in players needing games and time to learn in this division. With respect to squad changes, Barkley was useful - with fans having mixed views. Helan was already with us when we weren't doing so well. Wickham is still trying to settle. Lita is the key addition giving us the potency Bothroyd couldn't - so we're not talking squad overhaul during the course of the season. Edited February 24, 2013 by wilyfox Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJMortimer Posted February 24, 2013 Share Posted February 24, 2013 Keep clinging guys. Even when the side is in tremendous form (25 points from the last 12 games) some people still behave as if we're back in that run of October / November. It's almost as if they're so desperate for a whinge that they make stuff up to complain about. But they can't be doing that can they because we're always told that ALL supporters are only interested in us doing well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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