Catering

[Orlando_Trustful]

It always makes me laugh when people start threads moaning about the food / prices at Hillsborough. 

 

Here's an unbelievable idea, have some food before the game, therefore you won't have to spend money at the ground. 

[SnowyOwl13]

Sausage Rolls were quite nice.

[DevOwls Advocate]

Prices are high for a few reasons:

1. Having to pay staff for what I believe is 4 hours, when in actual fact they have a peak serving period of 15 minutes.

2. Potential high volumes of wastage (not like a take-away that opens everyday, so has opportunity to sell the next day).

3. Captive audience, that means customers are more likely to buy at prices that they wouldn't in an open market.

 

Possible solutions:

1. Consider having a 'happy hour' (obviously need to market this so the club don't get criticised for being seen trying to get fans to drink more) with cheaper prices either 1.30pm - 2.30pm to get people in earlier, sell more and get better value from the staff that are there. 

2. Consider a similar option after the game, say 4.45pm - 5.45pm. Don't have to keep all kiosks open (as this would be extra staff time that needed to be paid), just one per stand (or just one stand, but allow spectators from other stands to enter after the game has ended and the exiting crowd have cleared - don't want to breach health and safety!), to provide an opportunity to sell of surplus stock at cheaper prices (I know when we had Beres they would be stood outside the ground selling unsold pies off cheap after the match).

3. Consider introducing pre-ordering option for half-time to have express points for pre-paid items to help speed up service times (and also inform what quantities of food need cooking while the first half is being played), I think this has been tried before.

4. Longer term the club consider the viability of offering individual kiosks out to tender, rather than to one single company. Not sure if this would generate the same income for the club and if not then don't do it, but if the individual kiosks were like the high st, then you get competition between kiosks, which should help keep prices down.

5. I also think the caterers should consider having sales people walking round the stands during games, or at least standing in the stands at half time to sell simple items like soft drinks, sweets and crisps - happens at US sports venues, why not try here. This frees up the concourse for people who want hot food/drinks/alcohol.

 

I'm no expert, but maybe worth consideration to increase purchases and hopefully reduce prices. I can't take credit for all of the suggestions as I think a few these were operated/thought about during :ls:  time at the helm.

Edited February 12, 2013 by DevOwls Advocate

[cross owl]

At the prices they charge i reckon they cover all wages within two minutes of opening as they'll be on minimum wage and lets face it two quid for a bovril is pretty much all profit so the fact they have to pay them about three hours not doing much is hardly a reason . And i hate the " lets rob them blind because they can't go elsewhere " thing really makes my p155 itch .

Edited February 12, 2013 by cross owl

[oakleyrob]

Some good Ideas in here DVA.

 

 

 

 

Possible solutions:

1. Consider having a 'happy hour' (obviously need to market this so the club don't get criticised for being seen trying to get fans to drink more) with cheaper prices either 1.30pm - 2.30pm to get people in earlier, sell more and get better value from the staff that are there. 

Excellent idea

2. Consider a similar option after the game, say 4.45pm - 5.45pm. Don't have to keep all kiosks open (as this would be extra staff time that needed to be paid), just one per stand (or just one stand, but allow spectators from other stands to enter after the game has ended and the exiting crowd have cleared - don't want to breach health and safety!), to provide an opportunity to sell of surplus stock at cheaper prices (I know when we had Beres they would be stood outside the ground selling unsold pies off cheap after the match).

It is a good idea, but didn't look that popular when Beres did it, probably more for the away fans than us lot.

3. Consider introducing pre-ordering option for half-time to have express points for pre-paid items to help speed up service times (and also inform what quantities of food need cooking while the first half is being played), I think this has been tried before.

Not sure we have sufficient space, especially North stand, ok for Kop.

4. Longer term the club consider the viability of offering individual kiosks out to tender, rather than to one single company. Not sure if this would generate the same income for the club and if not then don't do it, but if the individual kiosks were like the high st, then you get competition between kiosks, which should help keep prices down.

Interesting idea, personally like to see different foods Chinese noodles(not POT Noodles though!!), Mexican food (Chilli&Rice,Tacos/Tortillas), and maybe something other than pies/burgers/hot dogs!! 

5. I also think the caterers should consider having sales people walking round the stands during games, or at least standing in the stands at half time to sell simple items like soft drinks, sweets and crisps - happens at US sports venues, why not try here. This frees up the concourse for people who want hot food/drinks/alcohol.

 

Don't like this idea at all, bad enough people wandering about to go to the bog/get food while the match is on!!

 

I'm no expert, but maybe worth consideration to increase purchases and hopefully reduce prices. I can't take credit for all of the suggestions as I think a few these were operated/thought about during :ls:  time at the helm.

[cross owl]

Lets set up a " buy f**k all from lindleys day " to show them were hacked off with being treat like cash dispensers

Edited February 12, 2013 by cross owl

[PortlandOwl]

Never bought any food or drink in a football ground. If you need something, loads of chippies, cafes, pubs, shops round the ground and in Hillsborough.  In fact, why does everyone have to eat when they go to the pictures, football or even shopping?  Can people not manage for 3 or 4 hours without eating?  No wonder obesity and diabetes is a growing problem.

 

I've never understood the eating at football mentality. After all 3pm is not really a mealtime as its between dinner and tea. You wouldnt normally eat at 3pm so why do people feel obliged to do it when they go to football?

[cross owl]

I've never understood the eating at football mentality. After all 3pm is not really a mealtime as its between dinner and tea. You wouldnt normally eat at 3pm so why do people feel obliged to do it when they go to football?

humans are ritualistic and its like ground day . I never used to have dinner on a matchday and get a pie and bovril but lindleys put a stop to that . Lindleys make me feel empty inside :-)

Edited February 12, 2013 by cross owl

[nebneeb]

You can slag off those that buy it all you want, but when you`ve got a son/daughter and they look forward to something to eat/drink at the ground you can`t deny them. It`s stupidly overpriced and i would have  thought the club would do well if they did it in-house and charge sensible prices.

And before some wise arse says why don`t you feed em at home before you go to the match...it`s a 660 mile round trip from Dundee.

 

You could buy a multi-pack of crisps/biscuits/chocolate bars/bottles of pop from the supermarket and take them with you...

 

Amazing effort and commitment going from Dundee.

[Guest Grez Bez]

Needs some competition

 

Shopuld rent them out seperately so tehy can compete with each other!

[fpowl]

Hi Devowl, Dont mean to shoot you down here a lot of your points and concerns are common within all stadiums but let me try and put some reasoning and understanding in the way most stadiums operate our public kiosk catering in the same manor we do.

Prices are high for a few reasons:

1. Having to pay staff for what I believe is 4 hours, when in actual fact they have a peak serving period of 15 minutes. you are correct a minimum of 4 hours have to be offered to staff however these should be staggered and managed accordingly to get maximum efficiently out of them for example you need staff in earlier to prep and cook the food you need staff in later to clean down the kiosk and cash up. you need all the staff on song for half time ( a good way to maximise half-time sales is to support the kiosk staff with the staff that work in the corporate areas at half time the these areas are a lot quieter)

 

2. Potential high volumes of wastage (not like a take-away that opens everyday, so has opportunity to sell the next day). wastage is or should be no more than 1% this is managed by transferring surplus stock around other kiosks before closure it is why a lot of stadiums run out of food early personally I believe a good wastage figure should be 3% I understand that this eats profits for catering contractors however the fan gets the choices they want without disappointment.

 

3. Captive audience, that means customers are more likely to buy at prices that they wouldn't in an open market. exactly its like going to a hotel wedding or a theme park, sure some people bring in there own food and beverage but in the scale of things this is very minimal and by not having an option of going else were when captured you are forced to put up or shut up, the same rules apply

 

Possible solutions:

1. Consider having a 'happy hour' (obviously need to market this so the club don't get criticised for being seen trying to get fans to drink more) with cheaper prices either 1.30pm - 2.30pm to get people in earlier, sell more and get better value from the staff that are there. its been tried in many places the truth is people tend to be have there own travel patterns and these wont change trying to get the custom through the doors earlier could end up costing more money to the club in wages. A good suggestion would be to work with the local authorities in getting away fans into the ground for segregation reasons however sadly Hillsborough do not always get the away following we need to make this pay dividends

 

2. Consider a similar option after the game, say 4.45pm - 5.45pm. Don't have to keep all kiosks open (as this would be extra staff time that needed to be paid), just one per stand (or just one stand, but allow spectators from other stands to enter after the game has ended and the exiting crowd have cleared - don't want to breach health and safety!), to provide an opportunity to sell of surplus stock at cheaper prices (I know when we had Beres they would be stood outside the ground selling unsold pies off cheap after the match).Again if managed correctly surplus stock should not be an issued, you then have an issue of how long you can keep the stock warm and how the product would taste holding in heat ovens all this time( I wait the abuse of how it tastes when freshly cooked)

 

3. Consider introducing pre-ordering option for half-time to have express points for pre-paid items to help speed up service times (and also inform what quantities of food need cooking while the first half is being played), I think this has been tried before. Is the cueing at Hillsborough that bad I usually find I ma served within in 5 minutes of cueing which is not disastrous however I do feel the staff should be better supported some do not have tills some are understaffed at busy periods and I think we can all agree they often seem under trained and very demotivated but again you have to look at the management and the support system for this. ( this is not a reflection of all the kiosks staff just my experience on the North Hillsborough over the last 5 years)

 

4. Longer term the club consider the viability of offering individual kiosks out to tender, rather than to one single company. Not sure if this would generate the same income for the club and if not then don't do it, but if the individual kiosks were like the high st, then you get competition between kiosks, which should help keep prices down. I agree this would make it more competitive on the concourse however value wise it could see more successful kiosks profits sore and prices rise. it would also reduce the yearly rent that Lindley pay to Sheffield Wednesday in there partnership. there are so many benefits of having one contractor than multiple contractors

 

5. I also think the caterers should consider having sales people walking round the stands during games, or at least standing in the stands at half time to sell simple items like soft drinks, sweets and crisps - happens at US sports venues, why not try here. This frees up the concourse for people who want hot food/drinks/alcohol. again this would have little effect most people order a pie and drink or sweets together the cues would still remain the same in terms of bodies and transaction and I do not know of the ruling of having promotions around in the stands I'm pretty sure staff can not sell on steps in UK so these sales would have to be positioned pitch side  it would be cost more in wages in what is generated in sales

 

I'm no expert, but maybe worth consideration to increase purchases and hopefully reduce prices. I can't take credit for all of the suggestions as I think a few these were operated/thought about during :ls:  time at the helm.

In addition Where I think the the public catering let themselves down is they should look at the product they sell by this I mean dramatic improving the guest experience they can store and serve better products with little more effort on the kiosk I will give you three examples I trailed at the keepmoat Stadium and the ethiad Satdium which had a positive response from the fan and the takings.

 

1, bring in branded hot drinks i.e Costa, for example not only can these be quickly dispensed in the kiosks you haven a proven brand and better options.

2. offer gravy and mushy peas with the pies have some mint sauce available this is inexcusable in my opinion maybe I am a Yorkshire man or just common but pie and peas with gravy and mint sauce would be a lot more appealing than a dry pie.

3. but in a kebab machine these flew out in Manchester and was a surprisingly decent product its different and not many stadiums have cottoned on to this yet ( for the record this is a better seller for people between 18-25

[fpowl]

Just to clarify on the renting out of kisoks a single units to operators.

 

This has been tried in a number of sections in a number of grounds the main issues you have here are.

 

when a kiosk is effectively rented out as a space the indervidual or company has to spend money on refurbishing the space and stocking with equipment. which needs to be costed in this is usually negotiated on the reduction of rent ( less money for the club).

 

it is very difficult to have individual operators agree set pricing for a rent period to make a partnership cost effective the contractor would be looking to go into the space for 3 -years minimum, then you have the issues on what division are you going to be in attendances for example so forecasting for these can be disastrous if figures are not forcasted accurately.

 

Storage in stadiums, if you have say 30 different kiosks where do they store the stock they all want there own spaces for security I would imaging at Hillsborough they have rooms around the ground where they can store drinks, burgers bread etc... these would then have to be split and I would again imagine there is not the space, forcing the operators to bring and take stock with them, ( transport fees and wages would rise)

 

Over all the kiosks you would spread you staff and have a area manager or stand manager, if franchised out each stand would have to have its own staff and own manager again wages would be higher.

 

In short the cost of set up and actually operating kiosks if franchised would be greater than a group this would either reduce the revenue the club gets in rent or increases the prices to accommodate the short fall.

 

the theory and choices are excellent the practicality and costing however is not unfortunately 

[Guest SW1992]

only ever buy when im hanging out my arse!

 

Plug's 80p vodka coke on a friday is a real headbanger!

bottle of coke and sausage roll is a must.

 

if theres somebody being sick in the toilets at the top of the kop on a saturday you'll probably know its me!

 

[ReginaldD]

Hi Devowl, Dont mean to shoot you down here a lot of your points and concerns are common within all stadiums but let me try and put some reasoning and understanding in the way most stadiums operate our public kiosk catering in the same manor we do.

In addition Where I think the the public catering let themselves down is they should look at the product they sell by this I mean dramatic improving the guest experience they can store and serve better products with little more effort on the kiosk I will give you three examples I trailed at the keepmoat Stadium and the ethiad Satdium which had a positive response from the fan and the takings.

 

1, bring in branded hot drinks i.e Costa, for example not only can these be quickly dispensed in the kiosks you haven a proven brand and better options.

2. offer gravy and mushy peas with the pies have some mint sauce available this is inexcusable in my opinion maybe I am a Yorkshire man or just common but pie and peas with gravy and mint sauce would be a lot more appealing than a dry pie. This was awesome when we had this option with Beres

3. but in a kebab machine these flew out in Manchester and was a surprisingly decent product its different and not many stadiums have cottoned on to this yet ( for the record this is a better seller for people between 18-25

[DevOwls Advocate]

All fair comments fpowl. Sounds like you have a decent insight into this. Having been to the likes of the O2 and New Wembley you get a feel for what a modern day concourse can be like. I haven't been to the Emirates but it sounds similar to Wembley.

 

We obviously face restrictions with the current layout of our ground, and I fully appreciate given the recent financial history of our club that the Lindley's deal made financial sense it provided the club with guaranteed income at minimal risk. The kebab idea sounds like it could prove popular if tried.

 

I think all of the other comments are valid, i.e. for most people there is no obvious need to buy at the ground. But at the same time, what would be the reaction be if all catering facilities stopped being supplied? I know it won't happen, but sometimes your damned if you do and your damned if you don't!

 

PS - Another idea, would vending machines help, i.e. again to allow quick access to soft drinks, sweets, etc. I get your point about people may want hot and cold stuff, but I do regularly see dad's queuing for a decent amount of time just to get to the front and ask for a bag of crisps for the kids. I appreciate that vending machines will have issues, like need for a power supply and is there suitable concourse space available.

Edited February 12, 2013 by DevOwls Advocate

[nebneeb]

I actually timed how long it took 1 person to pour a pint in the Grandstand at the last match.

 

It was 30 seconds.

 

The same person also has to take the order, and deal with the transaction.

 

With 2 people working the bar, this rate of serving means they can serve approximately 45 drinks during half time.

 

I can't understand why they don't have a system in place to maximise what they can sell in a limited time period - there's so many things that could be done differently to speed it up.

 

At the moment demand is far exceeding supply, it's annoying people who want to be ripped off, and the club/caterer's are missing out on £££.

[fpowl]

Emirates is very similar to Wembley its a contractor that's called Delaware and they operate both the Emirates and Wembley they also have derby county too. in my view one of the better contractors.

 

from a personal view I would bring all catering public, corporate, conference and banqueting bot match and non match day in house, I understand this brings in a whole new management structure in a field that is not seen as specialists within football clubs however, if you employ the correct management team the rewards financially are very healthy.

 

Manchester United to this very well they have 3,500 catering staff employed on there books for match days ( granted the numbers are vastly different but its all relevant) to give you an idea on ludicrous revenue. They cover between 4,200 - 6,500 corporate covers on a Match day day and this takes for 50% of there overall match day revenue. so for example the other 72,000 that just pay and sit in the stands buy the programmes and the pies is the other 50%.

 

Then there is the obvious public kiosks with better training, products, and value you can introduce on the kiosks and then all non , match day conference and banqueting makes you think what kind of profits are available if done right.

 

I was at the keepmoat stadium when it opened working for a contractor called EMC think they profited 3 million in conferencing alone in there first year there that non match days.

 

Its baffles me why the larger clubs with the bigger facilities do  not follow the Manchester United model ( granted there brand is not as global and margins would be less) but the rewards will still be healthy and could lead to an extra player or two or larger playing budget, and lets be right we have the facilities and the fans...... we are Massive.

[fpowl]

All fair comments fpowl. Sounds like you have a decent insight into this. Having been to the likes of the O2 and New Wembley you get a feel for what a modern day concourse can be like. I haven't been to the Emirates but it sounds similar to Wembley.

 

We obviously face restrictions with the current layout of our ground, and I fully appreciate given the recent financial history of our club that the Lindley's deal made financial sense it provided the club with guaranteed income at minimal risk. The kebab idea sounds like it could prove popular if tried.

 

I think all of the other comments are valid, i.e. for most people there is no obvious need to buy at the ground. But at the same time, what would be the reaction be if all catering facilities stopped being supplied? I know it won't happen, but sometimes your damned if you do and your damned if you don't!

 

PS - Another idea, would vending machines help, i.e. again to allow quick access to soft drinks, sweets, etc. I get your point about people may want hot and cold stuff, but I do regularly see dad's queuing for a decent amount of time just to get to the front and ask for a bag of crisps for the kids. I appreciate that vending machines will have issues, like need for a power supply and is there suitable concourse space available.

This is poor management and training

 

as a standard across all stadiums you have a 20 minute period to really push sales.

 

The best way proven is to pre poor as many drinks as possible and have staff who just consistently pour drinks. ( not to order, just drink after drink) you have a team on the front taking orders and passing the the drinks over, They shout the order to a till operator who in puts the order in the till whilst the server is serving. Till operator shouts out the amount the money and change is taken and given......next customer please

 

The kiosk works as one Team and its very effective average sales are 13 pints per minute by one server ( for the record you could not pour that amount from one server )

 

its down to management, training, preparation and team work

 

Its very poorly done at Hillsbrough, the kiosks are not even set up right to deal with the volume.

[Buxtongent]

The thing that never ceases to amaze me is the amount of food requested during a specific short space of time. If you take the full length of time of a match as being a maximum of 2 hours, why should everyone need a meal/snack, which is what many people are buying, within 50 minutes max. after the start of the game? I leave home at 12.45 p.m., travel 45 mins in order to see the game. Allowing for traffic, parking and getting out of the CP, I am usually home for around 6.30p.m.- a maximum away from home of 6 hours. I deliberately arrive for 1.45/2.00p.m. in order to get Fish/Pie &Chips, which I eat outside the stadium. I realise that I shall want a drink of something during the game, and so take a small bottle of water/coke etc. and have a small flask which I fill with Bovril during cold spells and take that with me. My thinking goes on the lines that the maximum break at half time should be 15 mins.and how can anyone expect to serve between 5,000 and 10,000 people in the short time available. With the best system in the world this is asking for the moon.

The exception I would make is in the serving of alcohol. Here is the chance to have a large number of 3/4 full glasses ready for topping up. With this I would arrange for one person to be serving another for the taking of orders/money/change etc.

If we are all wanting to be served a meal and a drink in the 15 mins of half time, we are living in cloud-cuckoo land. 

[Guest SW1992]

oh i hate been hungover for wednesday games.

 

remember the relegation palace game I was the most hungover i've ever been for a game.. what a great day that was......

I missed Barkley's pen v Bolton.

 

Too much excitement for the penalty led to running to the toilet and chundering, still cheered when head over bog chundering!