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Guest Big Guns

Who would win?

I think the cult of Jones would turn on each other tbh

Beholder and jontheowl keep wanting to feight each other and you wouldn't trust grandad would you

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I think some people are being a little disingenuous about this.

 

Firstly, they try to represent the debate as polarised into one of two distinct opposites with no variation or ambiguity (this is so tiresome and infects every aspect of human life). This is much too simplistic and doesn't accurately represent the full breadth of opinion.

 

Secondly, some were quite happy to berate Jones at every opportunity with made up arguments, conjecture, abuse and downright falsehoods but now we're supposed to pretend none of that ever happened on the clichéd basis that it's divisive? They seem to want their cake and eat it and employ standards for others that they did not entertain for themselves when we were losing regularly.

 

Thirdly, for the most part (and I realise there may have been exceptions), those supportive of the manager were much more balanced in their views, accepting that the manager had much to answer for, whereas their 'opponents' often would not allow themselves to give Jones the tiniest credit, even for things they would have been happy to acknowledge just a few weeks before. 

 

Fourthly, as has already been pointed out, posters putting forward some sort of logical reasoning for their stance (Daz and BRADDAZ come to mind) received little criticism as I recall. In fact, they were often told that they had a point. After all, long losing sequences, poor performances and being second from bottom of the table were hardly secrets perceptible to just an enlightened few. Personally, apart from the personal attacks and attention seekers, I also resented the sloganeers. These are people you can see at any club that is struggling that just casually throw around stuff like 'he's lost the dressing room', 'he's got no plan B' or 'he's lost the plot' as if that contains any kind of truth or wisdom. 

 

All that said, there is little to be gained from continuing the boxing match and I'd rather avoid 'I told you so' stuff in the main. But that doesn't mean that some people aren't being frauds and hypocrites. 

 

Given that you 'negged' my post, I am making the assumption that some of the claims you make about being 'some people being a little disingenuous' and trying 'to represent the debate as polarised into one of two distinct opposites with no variation or ambiguity' are aimed at me.  If they are then that's fine.  I'm not going to get upset and hurl insults - everybody is entitled to an opinion, however, it would be good if you could clarify. 

 

I should point out that I am neither ‘pro’ nor ‘anti’ Jones.  I will praise him when I think he is doing well (e.g. I stated that he was the person that deserves the credit for the recent upturn in results and not Stuart Grey) but I will also be critical of him when he is not doing well (e.g. I stated that he needed to look at his PR when he was blaming all and sundry and appearing not to look at himself during the bad run).  I have never thrown around an accusation about anyone - how would I know if Jones has ‘lost the dressing room’.  I always try my utmost to post in a balanced, unprovoking and non-insulting way. 

 

I have never advocated changing manager – look where that has got us in the last 15 – 20 years.  I hope that Dave Jones stays as long at Wednesday as Alex Ferguson has spent at Manchester United as this will mean he has been successful. 

 

I would disagree with your opinion that ‘posters putting forward some sort of logical reasoning for their stance received little criticism’.  I often put forward what I believe to be a reasoned and balanced counter argument to the ‘pro’ or ‘anti’ Jones posts and get accused of being a ‘hater’ or ‘happy clapper’ respectively.  It looks like I’m viewed as a bit of a ‘hater’ at present.  This drives me crazy because the accusation is made as a cheap way to ‘win’ an argument – I am quite happy to concede an argument if convince that I am wrong in my opinion.  I don’t want to choose a side and it would be nice to discuss a topic without someone deciding which side they believe I’m on.  Also, some high profile posters on here are quite willing to twist comments and replies out of context to ‘win’ an argument (yourself excluded) which drives me even more crazy.    

 

The good thing about all this toing and froing is that it shows that we have a passionate fanbase.  The bad thing is that its self-destructive. 

 

This thread started with a balanced acknowledgement by Kivo of Jones’ recent achievements and it could have been a good opportunity to ‘heal the wounds’ and bring the ‘polarised’ fans back together.  Why oh why did someone have to come along and turn the thread into a ‘told you so’ fest????  It seems that some people are more interested in winning an argument that letting sleeping dogs lie. 

 

Let’s all just get back to supporting Wednesday FFS! 

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My workmate came to the Bristol game and he had a look on Owlstalk beforehand in order to get an idea about what was going on. He read out loud one of your threads about Dave Jones and now always asks me what Shandypants thinks of the current situation. It cracks me up. You're famous dude. He quotes you all the time.

Edited by Sonny
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My workmate came to the Bristol game and he had a look on Owlstalk beforehand in order to get an idea about what was going on. He read out loud one of your threads about Dave Jones and now always asks me what Shandypants thinks of the current situation. It cracks me up. You're famous dude. He quotes you all the time.

 

but does he quote me because he thinks that I'm balanced, funny, stupid or just an arrogant miserable c0ck? 

 

I think I'm an arrogant miserable c0ck btw. 

Edited by shandypants
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Great post from Shandypants. 

 

I think quite a few of us who have been critical of Jones have never actually called for his head, though I guess that some people will interpret criticisms of the manager as a call for him to be sacked, regardless of how you put across your point. 

 

There does seem to be a lot of back slapping going on this thread and a fair few "I told you so" posts going on...but then if that means Wednesday are winning, doing well, then so be it. 

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What a w4nk thread! Stupid "I told you so" tripe that's not only childish but also divisive. When Jones has a bad spell (it will happen), the Jones 'haters' will go into "I told you so" mode.

There's nothing wrong with criticism when things are going wrong and, by the same token, there's nothing wrong with acknowledgement when things are going right.

OwlsTalk is like a flipping school playground at times!

 

It ain't divisive- the ones calling for DJs head after a few losses were the divisive ones. Hark at them all claiming they "admit they wanted DJ out after 7 losses in a row" now. What bullshit, the poisonous atmosphere and cult of Megson were going strong after the loss to Bolton in September, and after the loss to Forest (3rd in a row) in November.

Those of us who stuck by him can now rightly have a bit of a go at the spoilt children and hysterical fannies- this will show them that their attitudes are not wanted, and help prevent bad runs from escalating into vitriol, pessimism and fear, thus helping prevent a bad run turning into a terrible one.

 

WAWAW  

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In a game of Scrabble or Trivial Pursuit, the Pro-Jones (Cult of Jones) would win by a landslide.

In a battle of fisty cuffs, maybe the Anti-Jones (Cult of Megson) based on their undoubted numerical advantage.

Idea for Neil here, how about a "Cult" its a knockout with all proceeds going to the running cost of Owlstalk!!!!

Who would win?

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Guest Distraught!

Idea for Neil here, how about a "Cult" its a knockout with all proceeds going to the running cost of Owlstalk!!!!

Who would win?

 

It's a Knockout - then it depends on whose side Big Guns is on. BG would be top man in that. :rolleyes:

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It ain't divisive- the ones calling for DJs head after a few losses were the divisive ones. Hark at them all claiming they "admit they wanted DJ out after 7 losses in a row" now. What bullshit, the poisonous atmosphere and cult of Megson were going strong after the loss to Bolton in September, and after the loss to Forest (3rd in a row) in November.

Those of us who stuck by him can now rightly have a bit of a go at the spoilt children and hysterical fannies- this will show them that their attitudes are not wanted, and help prevent bad runs from escalating into vitriol, pessimism and fear, thus helping prevent a bad run turning into a terrible one.

 

WAWAW  

 

Talk to the hand 'cause the arrogant miserable c0ck ain't listening! 

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Great post from Shandypants. 

 

I think quite a few of us who have been critical of Jones have never actually called for his head, though I guess that some people will interpret criticisms of the manager as a call for him to be sacked, regardless of how you put across your point. 

 

There does seem to be a lot of back slapping going on this thread and a fair few "I told you so" posts going on...but then if that means Wednesday are winning, doing well, then so be it. 

Nobody's "backslapping" anybody, but some people on here were doing their level best to force DJ out, and replace him with Billy Davies. That made me angry, and I don't want it to happen again

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cracking post shandy ,

 

Cheers Trev.  Its all getting a bit silly now isn't it?  Thank god for people like you who can brighten the mood somewhat.  You encapsulate what's good about Wednesdayites.  This thread shows what's bad about us. 

Edited by shandypants
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Nobody's "backslapping" anybody, but some people on here were doing their level best to force DJ out, and replace him with Billy Davies. That made me angry, and I don't want it to happen again

Booo!!! You're just a happy clapper! 

 

We are in the bottom five.

Would anyone have been truly happy with this last May?

DJ has still got a long way to go before convincing me and, I suspect, a great many others.

Booo!!! You're just a hater! 

 

Booo everyone that doesn't consider all aspects and post a balanced opinion.  Boooo!!! Boooo!!!!

 

Yawn. 

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Given that you 'negged' my post, I am making the assumption that some of the claims you make about being 'some people being a little disingenuous' and trying 'to represent the debate as polarised into one of two distinct opposites with no variation or ambiguity' are aimed at me. 

 

Actually, no. I can't say I've really noticed you above the crowd in all of this one way or the other. 

 

I negged that post because of the inference (granted, that might be my incorrect interpretation of it) that only one side of the debate was being divisive, when it seems to me that the other side had been multiple times worse.

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