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Helan returns to Man City

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why have i skipped to the last page to hear about someone who rode the black pearl with Captain Jack sparrow in the spanish armada?

Did the ref mistake Helan for Jack Sparrow this time?

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That's exactly his point. When was the last time city had a player come through the youth ranks? I don't know but I can tell you it was before they had millions to spend. Now they just buy young players instead of bringing through their own. It's easier for them because they have the funds. Helan won't get near their team not now not ever. Because they will just buy someone



Probably because the rules that benefit their Academy have only just kicked in but the development squad is for the future,, and as they get the pick of all other academy's for next to nowt now...But they will get players coming through..Like Helan in a year or two will be a regular feature.Patience is the key.They won't need to spend like crazy in a few years.

And that comes at a cost to every other club apart from those deemed to have a higher level academy.


You wil be lucky to see lower league teams have players coming through their ranks as of now because of this the tide has turned..For the detriment of clubs like ours in my opinion.And the top clubs just take these other clubs academy players willy nilly..It's a disgrace.Its going to finish a few lower team clubs that depend on bringing players through and selling them etc.

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Gi' over. There are tons of Brazilians who are fast and powerful. Lucas Moura is one that immediately springs to mind in the modern game. 



I didn't say that Brazilians weren't fast or powerful - thats my whole point that there is no genetic disposition based on where a player is born


I was asking what genetic characteristics Fat Ronaldo shared with other Brazilians who are nothing like either his genotype of somatototype - but they share country of birth



Okay, let's be extremely specific here. If a player begins playing football at a very young age, say.... 3. They practise kicking and controlling for 15 minutes a day, but perhaps genetically, they aren't 'predisposed' to play football. They probably won't become top level professionals, but they stand a very good chance of being good players. 



Aaah - "The Talent Code" eh...


The theory that 10,000 hours of practice will produce mastery of any skill - but it has to be beneficial practice, targeted and realistic - in the right conditions and environment with the right teaching input


Also the predisposition is a huge factor - many musicians will put in similar amounts of practice over the years - some are virtuoso's before they hit their teens - other very accomplished musicians will never reach that level of expertise in a lifetime of trying


As a brilliant sports science mate of mine says "i can make people quicker but i can't make them quick"



Listen - I don't like City at all. I saw them scouting in a youth game I was watching, and I'm mates with a guy who's relative was who City was scouting (if that makes sense). City said; 'Look, we like the look of him. We want him to move to Manchester when he's a bit older and stay with us'. And they went through everything about their plans for the future, how they planned to develop youth football etc. I have no idea if this is common in youth football at all.. But it was certainly interesting. I've related pretty much all of that in here - but I'm in no position to judge it.



Every club is supposed too have a policy document and a written philosophy regarding youth development


City have the funds to do what they want but i've not seen heard anything new tbh - clubs like Chelsea and Spurs have chucked many millions at uouth development for scant reward so far - it takes much more than just money



In regards to your final point, yes you're absolutely right. There is no exact science currently. But science is developing and we're gradually becoming better at predicting. But for me, that takes away from football slightly.




As you say, there's no sure fire way of telling how a player develops. But scouting should be based on the type of player they are, and even if they don't develop genetically to be the best, giving them everything they possibly need to succeed. So it's about variables, every player is different. It's about giving the kids a chance to express themselves and develop them as players. Not strictly looking for physical attributes. It's partly why I dislike watching 'top-end' kids football, because the fast/strong players stand out because they develop earlier and so have an advantage. 



I think the point here is that although we can predict final maturation height - even predict when kids will reach peak growth velocity (major growth/maturation spurts basically) - we can't do it accurately enough to be truly meaningful.


One of the great levelers is when kids go from u11 games to u12 games - from small compact pitches with reduced player numbers on each side to 11-a-side matches on appropriately sized but more realistic pitches - a lot of kids who shine at small sided games suddenly look like they can't run because they can't cope with the increased distances and running requirement


We try to weed them out with increased testing and it can be used as a guide - but thats all it is - a guide.


I know players who looked total athletes at 13 but by 15 couldn't keep up with the demands of their role - similarly i have seen some who couldn't move with any great physical literacy at 14 - look like gazelles within a couple of years.


I still believe that talent will out - if players are good enough they will be fast enough, strong enough and big enough etc etc - but the truth is that in an ever increasingly athletic game - players are becoming increasingly athletic


So its a factor that many academies value highly now.


As i said - Arsenal tried that philosophy a few years ago and now they've ditched it for a more standard model of identifying the best players and hoping they will cope physically

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Agree with Scram.


Regardless of how children are physically, you can teach each and every one of them correct technique, control, passing, movement, etc.


This even goes for English kids, but would clearly involve a change in Philosophy from top-down. I don't know what our own Academy's focus is, nor how they train the young 'uns, nor what they look for when scouting players. Be interesting to hear if someone does know...


P.S. Helan back to Man City. Not good. Bring him back.

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Sometimes people born without the innate talent can be just as if not more effective. Apologies for using cricket as an example, but England opening batsman and captain Alistair Cook keeps his head still, gets his foot to the pitch and line of the ball, keeps his left elbow high and strikes the ball. Kevein Pietersen on the other hand does little of the above but has superb hand-eye co-ordination and just whacks it.  Their effectiveness is comparable. 

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worth a punt full time in my opinion - pretty direct, good on the  ball and a decent touch - a hell of a lot better then what we've got and for me, was pretty productive going forward plus he can fill in at the back if we are short


if we can't get him for £350k i would definately want him back on loan along with a few others!

Edited by Hack-Abusi
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Guest Kagoshimaowl

Was expecting Helan to be back for Charlton. Big big loss...this is turning in to the worst transfer window in history!

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Guest Nilsson_is_God

I sense another Ben Marshall, a promising player comes on loan and shines only to be snapped up by some other Championship side..

God it's boring always been right, how many said he would play for City again... Really...

Seem to recall a little bet between BigGuns and Dave the builder....

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Guest JonTheOwl66

The last time that I learned that much about human evolution was in the 1970's TV series "The ascent of man" by professor Jacob Bronowski. I thought the thread was about resigning a bloke called Helan from Man City.


I forgot about this debate I had with Scram. Not sure why I'm actually arguing that side as I agree with Scram.

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