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4-4-2


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All about counter attacking these days. We do it well away from home with our pacey wingers, we cant do it at home as teams sit too deep.

Need to have another style of play for home matches. Thats where we've been poor this season, away from home the performances have been generally very good.

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Difficult one this

 

I'm not one of those who ever said it was an outdated system that had seen its day - because played well in the right circumstances it can still be an effective system - especially in our football and at lower levels.

 

The problem arise when the opposition play a midfield central 3 (which many do these days) - because the extra player invariably starves the central 2 of possession.

 

Some teams have tried to be inventive with their 4 in midfield by using diamond formations and even a tight 3 with one wide player which shifts like a pendulum according to the demands of the game. This is something Megson did in a less expansive way by using JOC in a "wide" position.

 

If the central 2 can't get a foothold in the game the second option is to go longer - or wider - earlier in the move. The longer the ball travels the easier it is to defend as the opposition has more time to adopt positions.

 

Having a front 2 as focal points is really easy for most defences to cope with - it actually sets the framework of their game. The central defenders mark and the full backs get on the cover - or if one of the sgtrikers opts to play wide then it's one centre back marking, one full back marking and the other 2 offering support/cover as needed - or a midfield player drops deeper when necessary.

 

If you saw the Wolves game last night you'd have seen this with Blackburn alternating the amount of players - and the positions they adopted when going forward. When they had the 2 up top Wolves dealt with it comfortably - when they either ran from deep or on of the strikers dropped off then thats when it became a problem.

 

When Kazim-Richards dropped deep early in the move then the Wolves CB's didn't know whether to track him or hold position - it must be said that the Wolves midfield did a poor job of helping out with this - but if the defenders went with him then there was a huge space behind - if they held position the Kazim-Richards picked the ball up and ran at the defence - and this was the biggest problem Wolves defence faced all night.

 

So....going back to us - i can see why DJ is reluctant to play an orthodox 4-4-2 because of the aforementioned . I'm not sure we have the type of players (such as a Derry type) to get in amongst a central 3 and make life difficult for them. But we evidently have players who can run beyond the midfield into space.

 

So while it might be frustrating at times we have to look at what suits the players we have - and currently i wouldn't go with an orthodox 4 in this division tbh - its asking to be starved of the ball and put under pressure.

 

Maybe we just have to suck it in while we go through this transition and realise what we are trying to accomplish - even if it doesn't come off spectacularly well at home yet

 

I can see why DJ would play a 5 or even 6 in midfield

 

I really cannot see why he would play 4-4-2

Well said Scram,

 

This must be one of the most prophetic descriptions of tactics we have ever had on OT. JJ and Antonio breaking both wide and centrally put too much on the plate of their rear guard for them to cope with comfortably.

 

Can it work at Hillsborough ? I believe it could if the front pair have got the legs to keep the shape in the middle and break a little more  often wide and centrally.

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I just think our players are more suited to 4-4-2. Everyone seems to know what they are doing and we have undoubtedly had more success with it this season. I don,t mind 4-5-1 but it,s when we all drop off and allow teams to play that riles me , whichever system we adopt. We look much better we hen we press the opposition higher up the pitch like we did against Hull. We made them look poor. Whereas against Burnley when we let them play and we never got near their defenders on the ball, we made them look good.

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The ginger mourinho said last season that formations and tactics are overrated and it was more about fitness, desire and workrate and whilst he was probably being a little flippant, there is a valid point in there somewhere.

 

v Hull we looked good mainly because we worked ever so hard when not in possession.

 

v Burnley we looked aweful because we didn't work very hard when not in possession.

 

We are still not very good in possession whatever formation we play but that will come when we start to increase the quality of playing staff.

 

But yes that formation that we played against Hull (whatever it was) did seem to work very well coupled with the increase in workrate.

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for me the key to the other nights success was about 

 

A.... picking up the opponents deep players before they got involved in attacks (something weve failed to do under jones until the last few weeks) and.. 

 

B...having the key personel in the middle of the park to quickly turn defence into attack.  Cokey proved he had all the attributes required to enable this and has perhaps been the missing link. 

 

What i like about this is that everyone seems clear on their roles.  JJ wasn't struggling with the notion of having to get back and then wondering who the hell he should be picking up, the two wide midfield players showed the hull attacks inside, something Hull clearly didn't feel comfortable with, in light of the fact that our central midfield players were will briefed and formed an effective brick wall. 

 

If we'd had a little more flair up front we could easiy have embarased hull even more.  I'd be interested to see how well this would work with rodri

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having helan and lee on the flanks is like having 5/6 in midfield compared to antonio

and bothroyd on the flanks. i used to think that you needed at least 1

winger in midfield but we've only had marshall that can cross since waddle

so whats the point? for us we should continue to fill midfield with energy

and let pace do the talking up front unless we get someone like marshall again.

 

4-4-1-1 is what we seemed to do vs hull and that suited us

with pace up top to counter. maybe madine should

be up top (at home at least), antonio off him with jj coming on for antonio

should he tire after 60-80 and cog for madine.

 

also like lee as a footballer and reckon he could play central

as a box to boxer with mayor on the right for a bit more threat

if needed. we may only be 3-4 quality players short of being a play off side.

right footed cb, box to box cm and we need a pacey 15+ goalscorer or 2.

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But thats when tactical initiative comes into play and often that is best managed from on the pitch and not the sidelines

 

I'll always be an unashamed fan of having a real old fashioned leader on the pitch - even if they might not be in the peak of their career

 

Spot on Scram, experience to drive the tempo and pace of the game is essential - an ingredient we are missing at the moment but partially addressed with the return of Prutton.

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I like the fact that Jones is thinking about different approaches to be honest.

 

Shows he is willing to try new things a different players (see coke and prutton), sort of puts to bed the idea that he is stubborn and just plays his own signings.

 

...until our next defeat at least.

:dry:

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I like the fact that Jones is thinking about different approaches to be honest.

 

Shows he is willing to try new things a different players (see coke and prutton), sort of puts to bed the idea that he is stubborn and just plays his own signings.

 

 

He is willing to try allsorts when Bothroyd turned his ankle and couldn't play and when Barkley went to the vile animals.

 

What would have happened I wonder if Jay Bothroyd hadn't been injured, would DJ have gone to the formations of late. I am not criticising or congratulating just speculating. 

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We could learn a lot from Blackpool, who played an effective false no.9 in Gary Taylor-Fletcher, who then lets Ince & Phillips do their thing on the overlap (the 7 and a half, if you will)

We have similar players at our disposal (MA & JJ), but we don't seem to use them effectively. Asking MA to play as an authordox striker is wasting our best/only player.

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