Reality Check

[dorian gray]

wasn't there on saturday i have season ticket but also have man flu.

i have noticed this in the past few games though we start off OK but as soon as the crowd turn we just turn poo poo.

blame the players, blame the fans, blame both but this is whats happening.

this bits the wrong way around...as soon as we turn poo poo, the crowd turns...

[tomhollywood]

As far as I could see on Saturday the tactics were fine to start with.

For the first 10 mins we were knocking it about really well and I thought we were in for a good day, then all of sudden the crowd just turned and the players got nervous.

We want them to play football but when they were holding possesion whilst waiting for gaps they were then getting booed.

[wednesdaywizard]

YOUR MAKING A VERY GOOD POINT

WE HAVE TO REMEBER THAT WE ARE A DIVISION 3 TEAM AT THE MOMENT

THE PLAYERS AVAILABLE TO US,ARNT GOING TO BE OF THE QUAILITY THAT WE TRADITIONALLY ARE USED TO,

IN TURN THE PLAYERS ARE PLAYING FOR A LOWER LEAGUE TEAM THAT PULLS HUGE GATES,BIGGER THAN SOME PREMIER LEAGUE TEAMS,,

OUR HOME SUPPORT IS A POWERFUL THING,

IT CAN INTIMIDATE THE AWAY TEAM,BUT EVEN WORSE,WHEN WE GET ON THE TEAMSBACK ,IT EFFECTS THEM NEGATIVELY

, THEY REALLY DONT PLAY BETTER,PROBERLY WORSE

SO LETS TRY AND GET BEHIND THE TEAM AT THIS EARLY STAGE,

A TEAM WITH MANY NEW PLAYERS,LEARNING NEW SYSTEMS,,,UNDER A NEW MANAGER...

ITS HARMING OUR PLAYERS,IT REMINDS ME OF THE ENGLAND TEAM FREEZING AT WEMBLEY

ITS NO USE BOOING THEM IF U WANT WEDNESDAY TO WIN,

AFTER THE FINAL WHISTLE THEN THATS THE TIME,THE MATCH IS OVER,,

BUT WHILST IN PLAY,ITS AFFECTING THE PLAYERS.LIVE ON THE PITCH...

YOU SHOULD SAY,WELL THEY SHOULD BE ABLE TO DEAL WITH IT,,BUT REMEBER,THEY ALL HAVE REASONS THEY ARNT PLAYINGF AT A HIGHER LEVEL,,SOME OF THEM ,ITS MENTAL,,,,AND THEY WILL WILT AND HAV DONE,,,

IT MIGHT NOT BE PRETTY,BUT ITS OUR TEAM,,AND WE LOVE THEM

I LOVE EACH AND EVERY ONE OF THEM,,EVEN POTTER,

,AND I HOPE THEY CAN IMPROVE,,BUT HOPEFUL;LY,WE CAN BE UPGRADING IN THE FUTURE,IN MANY AREAS, ANYWAY,,

THIS KID HAS BEEN BORN A LITTLE DISABLED,BUT LETS NOT TIE IT TO A CHAIR AND BURN ITS ARMS WITH CIGGARETTES,,,IT AIANT RIGHT

RAVENJETBYRNBE

Arguably the best post i have ever read on here.

Couldn't agree more. Spot on.

[Freshfish]

As far as I could see on Saturday the tactics were fine to start with.

For the first 10 mins we were knocking it about really well and I thought we were in for a good day, then all of sudden the crowd just turned and the players got nervous.

We want them to play football but when they were holding possesion whilst waiting for gaps they were then getting booed.

...so even following a splendid half time managerial team talk, booing effectively made the first team squad change it's tactics en mass...for almost every game since AI joined when we were a league higher?

[Guest Buxtonian]

Must admit that, for once in my life I felt disgusted on Saturday, not with the team's performance, although this was not good, but with the attitude of the wednesday crowd. I can't call them fans because they are simply critics. Even the media seem to see more in our side than the spectators these days. At one time, a crowd of 16,000= Wednesdayites would not have allowed themselves to be outshouted by a couple of busloads of Orient fans. There was simply NO SUPPORT whatsover for the side. This is a side that, like the fans, have just been through an absolutely horrendous time. It was a side that was without 2 of its regular key players, and needed encouragement not the despicable booing that went off. Were I one of these players, and I have critisised them as much as anyone this season for lack of effort, and had heard Saturday's response from the crowd, I would have given up and simply gone through the motions.

I honestly believe that we are better at playing the ball on the floor and with the gradual build up that doesn't bring the immediate adrenaline rush, and feel that fans must be more patient. but then, that's not the Wednesday way, is it. If you don't get 3 goals in the first 20 minutes, the side are crap! that's the wednesday way! And for goodness sake STOP blaming the 'Oldies' in the crowd. From where I sat, much of the booing started in the North, which is the home of many of the younger element, and spread to the fabulous Kop we seem to be so proud of.

There seems to be a far better atmosphere when we are away. Let's get back to making Hillsborough the fortress it once was. A place where, even if the side was not playing great, the crowd invariably gave Wednesday a goal start. On Sat. it's a wonder we didn't give Orient a goal start with the crowd reaction. If you don't like the way the team are playing, either don't come or go home but cut out the dreadful 'Booing'

[alanharper]

100% Agree.

So glad were away next week

My thoughts exactly.

Then I remembered that I'm going all the way to Yeovil and back to watch this poo .

[tomhollywood]

this bits the wrong way around...as soon as we turn poo poo, the crowd turns...

I can see what your saying but Saturday was ridiculous.

We were knocking it around across the back 4 and then people started booing it! WTF!!!!

Arsenal, sometimes string 50 odd passes together before creating a chance, 30 of which passes might have been knocked around at the back.

What do people want?!!

If they want passing football then they will have to learn to be patient.

edit: On top of this, with this invesment, the expectations will increase 10 fold - as shown in that wish list thread.

Edited October 11, 2010 by tomhollywood

[alanharper]

I can see what your saying but Saturday was ridiculous.

We were knocking it around across the back 4 and then people started booing it! WTF!!!!

Arsenal, sometimes string 50 odd passes together before creating a chance, 30 of which passes might have been knocked around at the back.

What do people want?!!

If they want passing football then they will have to learn to be patient.

There's a difference between casually stroking it around the back line, and doing what we did which was facing forwards, then instead of looking for or attempting to play it forwards, actually turning round in order to pass it backwards when there was no need.

[dorian gray]

Must admit that, for once in my life I felt disgusted on Saturday, not with the team's performance, although this was not good, but with the attitude of the wednesday crowd. I can't call them fans because they are simply critics. Even the media seem to see more in our side than the spectators these days. At one time, a crowd of 16,000= Wednesdayites would not have allowed themselves to be outshouted by a couple of busloads of Orient fans. There was simply NO SUPPORT whatsover for the side. This is a side that, like the fans, have just been through an absolutely horrendous time. It was a side that was without 2 of its regular key players, and needed encouragement not the despicable booing that went off. Were I one of these players, and I have critisised them as much as anyone this season for lack of effort, and had heard Saturday's response from the crowd, I would have given up and simply gone through the motions.

I honestly believe that we are better at playing the ball on the floor and with the gradual build up that doesn't bring the immediate adrenaline rush, and feel that fans must be more patient. but then, that's not the Wednesday way, is it. If you don't get 3 goals in the first 20 minutes, the side are crap! that's the wednesday way! And for goodness sake STOP blaming the 'Oldies' in the crowd. From where I sat, much of the booing started in the North, which is the home of many of the younger element, and spread to the fabulous Kop we seem to be so proud of.

There seems to be a far better atmosphere when we are away. Let's get back to making Hillsborough the fortress it once was. A place where, even if the side was not playing great, the crowd invariably gave Wednesday a goal start. On Sat. it's a wonder we didn't give Orient a goal start with the crowd reaction. If you don't like the way the team are playing, either don't come or go home but cut out the dreadful 'Booing'

ooooooo no, no, NO....THERE'S ENOUGH NOT COMING ALREADY...f*ckin hell what a statement to make...here lets try this it's simpler grow some and start playing well against proper poo poo like orient...

[NicNac]

I can see what your saying but Saturday was ridiculous.

We were knocking it around across the back 4 and then people started booing it! WTF!!!!

Arsenal, sometimes string 50 odd passes together before creating a chance, 30 of which passes might have been knocked around at the back.

What do people want?!!

If they want passing football then they will have to learn to be patient.

edit: On top of this, with this invesment, the expectations will increase 10 fold - as shown in that wish list thread.

I said exactly the same thing to my Dad.

Boo when we hoof it, boo when we're passing it. Great...

[tomhollywood]

I said exactly the same thing to my Dad.

Boo when we hoof it, boo when we're passing it. Great...

It baffles me?!

I think some of our fans would like a 7 pass move resulting in an overhead kick from 40 yards.

That way they have had a good goal but not had to wait to long for it to get up top!!

[NicNac]

It baffles me?!

I think some of our fans would like a 7 pass move resulting in an overhead kick from 40 yards.

That way they have had a good goal but not had to wait to long for it to get up top!!

Hehe, maybe we've just had so much dross for so long we're not sure what we want?

[tomhollywood]

Hehe, maybe we've just had so much dross for so long we're not sure what we want?

That sounds about right.

I also worry that with investment the expectation will go through the roof!

It's already started in that wish list thread. Someone even suggested Paul Anderson from Forest, not a chance!!

[Guest ravenjetbyrne]

Must admit that, for once in my life I felt disgusted on Saturday, not with the team's performance, although this was not good, but with the attitude of the wednesday crowd. I can't call them fans because they are simply critics. Even the media seem to see more in our side than the spectators these days. At one time, a crowd of 16,000= Wednesdayites would not have allowed themselves to be outshouted by a couple of busloads of Orient fans. There was simply NO SUPPORT whatsover for the side. This is a side that, like the fans, have just been through an absolutely horrendous time. It was a side that was without 2 of its regular key players, and needed encouragement not the despicable booing that went off. Were I one of these players, and I have critisised them as much as anyone this season for lack of effort, and had heard Saturday's response from the crowd, I would have given up and simply gone through the motions.

I honestly believe that we are better at playing the ball on the floor and with the gradual build up that doesn't bring the immediate adrenaline rush, and feel that fans must be more patient. but then, that's not the Wednesday way, is it. If you don't get 3 goals in the first 20 minutes, the side are crap! that's the wednesday way! And for goodness sake STOP blaming the 'Oldies' in the crowd. From where I sat, much of the booing started in the North, which is the home of many of the younger element, and spread to the fabulous Kop we seem to be so proud of.

There seems to be a far better atmosphere when we are away. Let's get back to making Hillsborough the fortress it once was. A place where, even if the side was not playing great, the crowd invariably gave Wednesday a goal start. On Sat. it's a wonder we didn't give Orient a goal start with the crowd reaction. If you don't like the way the team are playing, either don't come or go home but cut out the dreadful 'Booing'

GREAT POST LEWIS,

SO MANY PEOPLE ON HERE SAYING WE NEED TO BE PASSING IT AROUND RATHER THAN GOING ROUTE ONE,

THats GREAT,WE ALL WANT TO SUPPORT A TEAM THAT PLAYS ATTRACTIVE FOOTBALL,

AND AT WEDNESDAY WE HAVE BEEN BLESSED WITH SOME SEXY PLAYERS AND SOME NICE PASSING FOOTY IN THE PAST,

BUT ABOVE ALL WE NEED TO GET OUT OF THOIS LEAGUE,AND TO DO THAT WE NEED TO WIN GAMES,HOWEVER UGLY IT GETS

CONSDERING ALL THE CRAP GOING ON IN THE BACKROUND..WE ARENT DOING TOO BADLY

FROM WHAT LAWS SAID ON P/G ON SUNDAY

HE BASICALLY SAID AT HALF TIME"WHO DOESNT WANT THE BALL?"

HE KNOWS IT WAS GARBAGE,HE DOESNT WANT THAT EVERY WEEK,,

FROM WHAT IRVINE SAID ITS CLEAR WE WANTS US TO EXPRESS OURSELVES MORE

BUT ITS NOT HAPPENING,SOME PLAYERS STILL NEED TO GEL MORE WITH EACH OTHER,,

OTHERS NEED TO COME TO TERMS WITH PLAYING IN A HUGE STADIUM OF BAYING FANS

ITS SO EARLY IN IRVINES TENURE,ID BE INCLINED TO BACK HIM ,AND GET BEHIND THE TEAM AT THE MOMENT,,

IF WE CHEER THE BOYS ON,WHO KNOWS THEY MIGHT FREE UP ON THE PITCH AND WE MIGHT GET SOME GOOD FOOTBALL,,

BUT THEY CAN ONLY EXPRESS THEMSELVES PROPERLY IF THE FANS DONT GET ON THERE BACK AS SOON AS POTTER PASSES

[BRADDAZ]

I read a decent sized report on the game in the NOTW yesterday. Probably written by a guy that's barely seen us all season. He totally slated us.

Why?

Because we were flipping dire.

It wasn't because the players were scared of a few boo's. I honestly cannot believe people are using it as an excuse. I bet only around 5/10% even boo'd anyway and they did it when for example Spurr could have played a ball down the line to Teale, but turned back and gave it to Buxton, or another example would be when Potter would go and get the ball from Buxton only to not even attempt to turn and look forward he just gave it Purse 20 metres at the side of Buxton.

That's not football.

We were shocking Saturday, even Irvine said it (although it's largely his fault). Not the fans fault for giving some of the players some stick.

Edited October 11, 2010 by BRADDAZ

[Guest ravenjetbyrne]

I read a decent sized report on the game in the NOTW yesterday. Probably written by a guy that's barely seen us all season. He totally slated us.

Why?

Because we were flipping dire.

It wasn't because the players were scared of a few boo's. I honestly cannot believe people are using it as an excuse. I bet only around 5/10% even boo'd anyway and they did it when for example Spurr could have played a ball down the line to Teale, but turned back and gave it to Buxton, or another example would be when Potter would go and get the ball from Buxton only to not even attempt to turn and look forward he just gave it Purse 20 metres at the side of Buxton.

That's not football.

We were shocking Saturday, even Irvine said it (although it's largely his fault). Not the fans fault for giving some of the players some stick.

MATE,YOU CAN HEAR THE BOOS 20 MINS IN ,I CANT RECALL MANY OTHER TEAMS THAT GET ON THE BACK OF THE HOME TEAM SO SOON,,

PEOPLE SEEM TO THING WE ARE PLAYING TEAMS THAT CANT COMPEATE WITH US,

LET ME TELL YOU,YOU HAVE TO URN THE RIGHT TO WIN IN THIS OR ANYOTHER LEAGUE

LEEDS WILL TELL U ITS NO EASY THING GETTING OUT OF LEAGUE1

LETS GET BEHIND THEM,,

AND IF ITS CRAP THEN BOO TO UR HEARTS CONTENT AFTER THE GAQME,NOT DURING,,

OTHERWISE YOU TAKE SOME OF THE BLAME TOO

WE HAv no GOD GIVEN RIGHT TO WIN,,,

THE PLAYERS NEED TO COME OUT,HIGH TEMPO,CLOSING DOWN PLAYERS,MAKING RUNS,CREATING SPACE WITH INTELEEGENT MOVEMENT,,

LETS HELP THEM BY NOT MAKINGT THEM SCARED TO MAKE A MISTAKE FOR FEAR OF GETTING SLauGHTERED

OTHERWISE MORE HOOFBALL,,

ITS A VICIOUS CIRCLE

CANT U SEE THAT

Edited October 11, 2010 by ravenjetbyrne

[since59owe]

100% Agree.

So glad were away next week

Long trip to Yeovil, need a good turnout hope we will win !

[BRADDAZ]

MATE,YOU CAN HEAR THE BOOS 20 MINS IN ,I CANT RECALL MANY OTHER TEAMS THAT GET ON THE BACK OF THE HOME TEAM SO SOON,,

PEOPLE SEEM TO THING WE ARE PLAYING TEAMS THAT CANT COMPEATE WITH US,

LET ME TELL YOU,YOU HAVE TO URN THE RIGHT TO WIN IN THIS OR ANYOTHER LEAGUE

LEEDS WILL TELL U ITS NO EASY THING GETTING OUT OF LEAGUE1

LETS GET BEHIND THEM,,

AND IF ITS CRAP THEN BOO TO UR HEARTS CONTENT AFTER THE GAQME,NOT DURING,,

OTHERWISE YOU TAKE SOME OF THE BLAME TOO

WE HAv no GOD GIVEN RIGHT TO WIN,,,

THE PLAYERS NEED TO COME OUT,HIGH TEMPO,CLOSING DOWN PLAYERS,MAKING RUNS,CREATING SPACE WITH INTELEEGENT MOVEMENT,,

LETS HELP THEM BY NOT MAKINGT THEM SCARED TO MAKE A MISTAKE FOR FEAR OF GETTING SLauGHTERED

OTHERWISE MORE HOOFBALL,,

ITS A VICIOUS CIRCLE

CANT U SEE THAT

Right for starters I don't boo, never have and never will. I don't see the point in booing, but I don't really care if others feel the need to boo. At the end of the day, it a sign of passion ans as a critisism. People have differing ways to show it and you have to accept it.

Right onto the main point...

You say we need to come out with an high tempo, closing opposition down, movement etc. The problem is this is exactly what we don't do. I have not seen it yet, apart from a 20 minute spell against Dagenham and a further full half against Notts County in the Cup. (I missed Hartlepool and Notts County but being to the rest). For the rest of the games I've seen a team come out, that is first of all rigid with no movement what so ever, I have seen a team that does not apply any pressure on the opposition when they're in possession what so ever, I have also seen a team that when in possession is devoid of ideas and movement (don't even get me started on lack of pace) when in possession. The man on the ball as very little in terms of options going forward (because of the lack of movement and rigid positions i.e. Players scared of moving) and that results in players passing back to a defence that's deep (because we don't pressure the ball so they have to be) and they pass along to each other and eventually it gets hoofed up to Tudgay and Morrison. Waste of time really.

We saw that against Orient on Saturday. For the first twenty minutes we had a bit of the ball (mainly because Oreint were defending with all men behind the ball, basically sussing us out) but because of a lack of movement, industry, etc. we passed it along the back four then Hoofball came along. The thing what annoyed supporters was that on the odd occasion a forward ball was on, but wasnt played and was then given back to Purse/Buxton to bang up field. It's was irritating and infuriating to watch as a supporter (that's why some boo'd) because we all can see we have decent players for this level and the opposition isn't particularly good. But the players are doing exactly the opposite of what you want us to do in your post above and we can all see. Frustrations then tip over and some fans boo.

Maybe the players did then go into their shells a little more and that's when Orient came out of theirs and actually showed more industry going forward and should have won that game.

The boo's should be for Irvine, but unfortunately it's the players on the pitch at the time when supporters vent their frustrations. A manager should be able to seethe common faults that are clearly their for all to see. He should release players and take the shackles off them. We have the players to go and win games comfortably, to see attacking foootball, to have shots, to have goals. For christs sake we've not even seen a League goals for us in front of the Kop this season. That's poo poo.

Look it's not right to boo, because the players are trying and I truly the believe the only reason we're picking results up at the minute is because we have better players than the opposition. But we can see it can be so much more easier and better to watch than the current hard work we're making out of getting results against poor opposition.

It's fvckng frustrating watching us (as well as been dull, boring, unimaginative, negative).

Alan Irvine needs to change is style.

btw, my apologies about any mistakes as I'm writing this out on an iPhone.

[Guest ravenjetbyrne]

Right for starters I don't boo, never have and never will. I don't see the point in booing, but I don't really care if others feel the need to boo. At the end of the day, it a sign of passion ans as a critisism. People have differing ways to show it and you have to accept it.

Right onto the main point...

You say we need to come out with an high tempo, closing opposition down, movement etc. The problem is this is exactly what we don't do. I have not seen it yet, apart from a 20 minute spell against Dagenham and a further full half against Notts County in the Cup. (I missed Hartlepool and Notts County but being to the rest). For the rest of the games I've seen a team come out, that is first of all rigid with no movement what so ever, I have seen a team that does not apply any pressure on the opposition when they're in possession what so ever, I have also seen a team that when in possession is devoid of ideas and movement (don't even get me started on lack of pace) when in possession. The man on the ball as very little in terms of options going forward (because of the lack of movement and rigid positions i.e. Players scared of moving) and that results in players passing back to a defence that's deep (because we don't pressure the ball so they have to be) and they pass along to each other and eventually it gets hoofed up to Tudgay and Morrison. Waste of time really.

We saw that against Orient on Saturday. For the first twenty minutes we had a bit of the ball (mainly because Oreint were defending with all men behind the ball, basically sussing us out) but because of a lack of movement, industry, etc. we passed it along the back four then Hoofball came along. The thing what annoyed supporters was that on the odd occasion a forward ball was on, but wasnt played and was then given back to Purse/Buxton to bang up field. It's was irritating and infuriating to watch as a supporter (that's why some boo'd) because we all can see we have decent players for this level and the opposition isn't particularly good. But the players are doing exactly the opposite of what you want us to do in your post above and we can all see. Frustrations then tip over and some fans boo.

Maybe the players did then go into their shells a little more and that's when Orient came out of theirs and actually showed more industry going forward and should have won that game.

The boo's should be for Irvine, but unfortunately it's the players on the pitch at the time when supporters vent their frustrations. A manager should be able to seethe common faults that are clearly their for all to see. He should release players and take the shackles off them. We have the players to go and win games comfortably, to see attacking foootball, to have shots, to have goals. For christs sake we've not even seen a League goals for us in front of the Kop this season. That's poo poo.

Look it's not right to boo, because the players are trying and I truly the believe the only reason we're picking results up at the minute is because we have better players than the opposition. But we can see it can be so much more easier and better to watch than the current hard work we're making out of getting results against poor opposition.

It's fvckng frustrating watching us (as well as been dull, boring, unimaginative, negative).

Alan Irvine needs to change is style.

btw, my apologies about any mistakes as I'm writing this out on an iPhone.

A VERY GOOD POST