Dressing room like a morgue

[trev]

What dressing room thing?

lets look at the evidence Waddle says in his day the dressing room was full of characters, Irvine sits there and doesn't say anything. Ergo the dressing room is an issue and like a morgue. Got me convinced with such compelling evidence

I thought exactly the same when I watched it. It does seem that the squad is simply not gelling. Maybe there is a clash of personalities, maybe its a case of every player in there having no personality at all and its just MEGA boring.

Sounds to me like they need some team building exercises . Maybe a night on the wee wee in amsterdam...that should help.

[Guest Deleted member]

A good coach does not necessarily equal a good manager. There are countless examples of those who tried and failed.

We've always been more successful when we've had managers who have had compelling characters and charisma. A year ago, this club was crying out for a charismatic appointment as part of its regeneration and I'm sure we we would have still been playing Championship football right now.

You only have to look at what Warnock did with Palace and now QPR - who were hovering around the same positions as us over the last 2-3 years prior to his arrival.

A good manager can motivate players to believe beyond their ability, but this is not necessarily the case with a good coach.

And that is what we are seeing.

My view exactly - and the appointment of Irvine was Lee's biggest mistake by quite a stretch. The award of such a lengthy contract has hampered things further.

[marshy]

A good coach does not necessarily equal a good manager. There are countless examples of those who tried and failed.

We've always been more successful when we've had managers who have had compelling characters and charisma. A year ago, this club was crying out for a charismatic appointment as part of its regeneration and I'm sure we we would have still been playing Championship football right now.

You only have to look at what Warnock did with Palace and now QPR - who were hovering around the same positions as us over the last 2-3 years prior to his arrival.

A good manager can motivate players to believe beyond their ability, but this is not necessarily the case with a good coach.

And that is what we are seeing.

Totally agree, 3.5 years was a shocking move, especially with our track record.

[Guest jimbob]

Did you hear Waddle on football focus talking about the team spirit when he was here and what they did in the dressing room?

Ask he was talking about it, there was nothing from Irvine no expression or anything can just imagine the players just sat there listening to his boring, dull flipping team talks.

Everyone whining about Irvine - why don't you consider what the players mKe of him. Mellor dropped to league 1 to play for him. And, more telling, Michael Gray had great things to say about him AFTER LEAVING. in other words when he had nothing to gain or lose by his comments, he was full of praise fir Irvine.

So don't suppose what he's like in the dressing room and don't compare him to managers from decades ago. The game is different.

Yesterday was scrappy but for the first time you began to see what Irvine was trying to do. He was screaming everytime we hoofed it. It was clear he wanted a passing style. That will take time but it will come and when we all learn to back the team and give them confidence rather than berate them for keeping possession then it will come quicker.

For me the negatives yesterday were JoC and Potter way too deep and us having no one up front or on half way when defending corners. But the plus points were encouraging for me. Marcus and Morrison were trying little lay offs and one twos. Almost none of them worked! But to slam it is like walking into a hospital and shutting it down cos it's full of sick people. They're doing the right things but they're not there yet.

So please, stick with it and take the positives.

[since59owe]

We were watching a decaying team spirit, as well.

[barmyowl1212]

Right So AI is a crap manager but very good coach. Why dont we just get a new manager and keep the backroom staff? That way we dont have to pay AI off as he wont be out of a job!

[dorian gray]

Did you hear Waddle on football focus talking about the team spirit when he was here and what they did in the dressing room?

Ask he was talking about it, there was nothing from Irvine no expression or anything can just imagine the players just sat there listening to his boring, dull flipping team talks.

wishing they were dead, or perhaps thinking they already were... :st2:

Edited October 10, 2010 by dnhc

[Guest Sniper1]

Every manager is different, i think Alan focuses on professionalism, he does a lot of homework on the opposition, we set up depending on the opponents.

This might work at a Premier League side where things are so tight that the slightest decision makes all the difference, perhaps our players need to have a bit more freedom in league one.

It might be the financial problems off the field having an effect on the team spirit but things don't seem right.(Granty sale maybe) we will never know though.

[Bluesteel]

I think its interesting that Clinton Morrison left Coventry because he didnt fancy Boothroyd's style of play. I wonder what he thinks at the moment?

I dont think the quiet atmosphere will be totally down to Irvine though, there were some poor performances regardless of tactics, which seemed to switch between keeping it on the deck, out wide and in to feet (which was good) and hoofball (which seemed to be a result of panicking). I would imagine Tudgay wouldve been unhappy with his effort at goal.

[Bluesteel]

Every manager is different, i think Alan focuses on professionalism, he does a lot of homework on the opposition, we set up depending on the opponents.

This might work at a Premier League side where things are so tight that the slightest decision makes all the difference, perhaps our players need to have a bit more freedom in league one.

It might be the financial problems off the field having an effect on the team spirit but things don't seem right.(Granty sale maybe) we will never know though.

Thats what is puzzling, there is light at the end of the tunnel, you would think players, staff and fans would feel the pressure eased!

[Pulixifer]

Thats certainly an opinion.

Irvine the inspirational eh?......

The significant difference is that Charlton knew what he building and got the best out the tools in the box.

And not like Irvine, by using a screwdriver to see if the shelf is level...

When your getting booed for passing it around, then getting given out to for being too direct im sure its hard to be happy.

[Guest mrbluesky]

When your getting booed for passing it around, then getting given out to for being too direct im sure its hard to be happy.

Sorry to be blunt but that is utter bowlax i shall endeavor to explain, we get the ball on the floor we have a great attacking option to go forward midfielder has an open 10 yard radius around him he can A press forward B play a sweeping ball to the opposite wing to take us forward C hold the ball to involve our midfield/attack or D he can pass it back to the defender thus killing any impetus going forward.

This is down to confidence and tactics, firstly we should be up on confidence two wins albeit but you can feel the person with the ball is thinking "i don't want to lose this ball because the way we've been playing thus far that's the only thing that's going to happen" so whats he do? passes it to the defender, secondly tactically if he plays this ball forward the end product is the same.So the player on the ball is in a no win situation literally!

All this points back to AI I'm afraid

[Guest mrbluesky]

Sorry D=booing and nothing to do with passing the ball

[Guest jimbob]

Sorry to be blunt but that is utter bowlax i shall endeavor to explain, we get the ball on the floor we have a great attacking option to go forward midfielder has an open 10 yard radius around him he can A press forward B play a sweeping ball to the opposite wing to take us forward C hold the ball to involve our midfield/attack or D he can pass it back to the defender thus killing any impetus going forward.

This is down to confidence and tactics, firstly we should be up on confidence two wins albeit but you can feel the person with the ball is thinking "i don't want to lose this ball because the way we've been playing thus far that's the only thing that's going to happen" so whats he do? passes it to the defender, secondly tactically if he plays this ball forward the end product is the same.So the player on the ball is in a no win situation literally!

All this points back to AI I'm afraid

Then you should take a look at AI during a match and try and come to the same conclusion. He's tearing his hair out at missed opportunities to pass forwards.

[darra]

On FF yesterday Waddle was talking about the laugh they used to have in the dressing room before games and the general buzz that was around the squad when he played. Silly games etc before matches that helped players relax.

Irvine sat motionless throughout looking very serious. You just knew that that sort of thing wasn't happening at the minute.

Did you hear Waddle on football focus talking about the team spirit when he was here and what they did in the dressing room?

Ask he was talking about it, there was nothing from Irvine no expression or anything can just imagine the players just sat there listening to his boring, dull flipping team talks.

I noticed how Waddle was making a point of mentioning that, whenever possible.

The dressing room morgue comment maybe related to the whole admin situation though. Have the players been paid this month?

Yep i noticed that he kept mentioning 'team spirit' quite a lot, maybe something really is not right.

We need to be totally rebuilt if you ask me. We need a vision and with new owners on the horizon this could be the time to develop it.

No point in just sacking a manager and getting another one. We've tried that. We need a vision for the future. Then we need to appoint/or keep a manager that shares that vision.

And the dressing room thing needs addressing.

I think its interesting that Clinton Morrison left Coventry because he didnt fancy Boothroyd's style of play. I wonder what he thinks at the moment?

I dont think the quiet atmosphere will be totally down to Irvine though, there were some poor performances regardless of tactics, which seemed to switch between keeping it on the deck, out wide and in to feet (which was good) and hoofball (which seemed to be a result of panicking). I would imagine Tudgay wouldve been unhappy with his effort at goal.

O.k then which one of you above has had it confirmed that the mood in the dressing room before during and after matches is boring and quiet maybe one of you have been allowed to experience it yourselves? Or is it just guess work based on Waddle saying what it was like in his day? Bit like everybody saying NP was earning 200k after iirc one comment from Bills,imagine our surprise when Lee told us all it was in fact 220k

Edited October 10, 2010 by darra

[davey_wells]

To be fair, I don't believe the hoof ball tactic is down to Irvine.

Its a combination of;

...a back three/four (I'm reluctant to include Spurr in this) who simply have no idea how to distribute the ball. Just giving it to the midfielders would help.

...a key 'playmaker' in central midfield in Darren Potter who just isn't positive enough for that position. Part of me really likes Potter - he's very neat & tidy and can play killer balls every now and again but so often he just passes it out to the full back and seems to have the weight of the world on his shoulders during a game with nerves torn to shreds. I'd much prefer to see a proper leader in there who shows some guile and forward surge - we have him in Tommy Miller.

...Tudgay up front. Too easy an option for everyone else to try and hit it up to him knowing that he's decent in the air and has a good chance of getting a flick on, somewhere. Keep him in midfield PLEASE. If we're going to play long to a striker we really need to bring in a targetman who holds the ball up giving our 'incredibly slow to push forward' team the chance to get into position.

This aside, I also don't think a 10 second view on FF of AI sitting motionless in the dressing room whole Waddle talks about the players of yesteryear having fun is really justification that Irvine has somewhat lost the dressing room.

[Guest pembo55]

To me there isnt a great team-spirit at the moment, I feel there may be the split in the dressing room we heard of during laws time here. Teale and spurr don't get along on the pitch at all is this to do with something off it too? And also Morrison and tudgay yesterday spent more time arguing than playing football is this another one too? But as just a fan observing during a match very hard to see if this is the case or not.

[Guest mrbluesky]

Then you should take a look at AI during a match and try and come to the same conclusion. He's tearing his hair out at missed opportunities to pass forwards.

He can tear all he wants his tactics his team, if teams are snuffing you out you change it, once and once only have i seen him do this with success Notts County, I mean Leyton Orient ffs they set there stall out after ten mins and we made em look like Brazil!, i have never seen 10 bemused players run around a pitch and to be honest jimbob (no offence) if you cant see it now you never will and for all those that aren't sure THIS IS MORE A MANAGER PROBLEM THAN A PLAYERS PROBLEM.

[FreshOwl]

You created the morgue AI.

[nile]

Then you should take a look at AI during a match and try and come to the same conclusion. He's tearing his hair out at missed opportunities to pass forwards.

look at pre season, we were bemused by some starting lining ups, its the same now, ai has never got to grips with the strongest starting 11, and he's still playing around today,