DEFENSIVE FOOTBALL

[Beholder]

No this won't wash lee. The board have created a problem at the club but there are numerous examples of teams playing well despite flirting with administration.

Alan Irvine has had enough games now to show us what his management style is....we can all see it. The Preston fans saw it and told us about it. l'm not going over the same examples we all seem to agree on, but he is without doubt the poorest manager I have ever seen at hillsbrough and he has to go now.

[i used to be sc_owl]

As someone who saw Preston play a fair few times under AI (I lived there for a few years) I have to say his team was actually ok to watch at times.

But come to think of it, I never actually saw a PNE win in person....

[Arthur Bach]

Dean

He said "pointless" not useless and he is wrong (just like I was wrong about shifting the family area and letting Brian renew Leon Clarkes contract for another year).

&

You also said you would stop with the snidy posts aimed at me and have still kept on churning them out.

Are you happy with who you are dude? do you think you are an honourable person?

Regards

Lee

I like a laugh Lee but thats low. For all you know it could have been a remark about Howard and his apparant opinion on futility of protest - it was more a reflection on where we are. It wasn't an attack or a snide comment at all, frankly I don't really care about you that much. And you're still doing that thing by calling me by my real name. Boring.

Fans are on an independent site discussing the manager and players and are just peeved off - Owlstalk gives us that forum to do so.

You're the one stirring things up by chastising fans, calling them morons and asking us to do things we have no real substance to do.

Your campaign to oust the board appears to have waned so you're back attacking posters of the ilk of Bruce Lee and DJ Mortimer which seems to tally with a couple of other Owlstalk long-timers who are tired of your petulance.

[Depeche]

Our "admin" issue last year was the £1.5m nuclear bomb hitting a squad that was 50% recruited by the previous CEO.

I kinda thought that this had been well covered and understood before now especially with our better informed posters..........

This legacy is what made the pre Brentford issue so impactful, again I thought this was well understood.................

Regards

Lee

Lee, please don't take this the wrong way, but you're starting to get on my nerves. Stop the name calling, this isn't a schoolyard. I won't ever call anyone on here some of the names you use. It's disgraceful. However much people get on your nerves - keep you head.

I fully understand that the financial state of the club can influence things, but that still doesn't justify 1 point out of a possible 15. The football continues and we, the fans, still expect the players to give it a go. If the players and manager want the crowd's support then they have to earn it and stop playing like a sunday league team. It can be excused for one or two matches, but as someone mentioned in this thread, the play wasn't even that good when we we're winning - in fact it was mostly dire - but we were lucky. Now we're not. But no matter what - I/we will continue to discuss football related matters regardless of the poo poo going on in the boardroom. You should be able to understand that - and keep the two seperate.

And

If the Co-op haven't forced the three stooges to stand down officially, then there's isn't much more we, as fans, can do atm in that regard according to HW. But that shouldn't and won't stop us hoping for investment and voicing our displeasure at their, now minimized, involvement.

[DJMortimer]

At the risk of going off topic - it will be interesting to see if Burnley can maintain their form over the course of the whole seaosn.

I repeatedly insisted at the time that Laws has his limitations and won't change my mind now despite Burnley's decent start. At some point I suspect things will deteriorate somewhat, but not like they did to us last October. And that was why I went on (and on and on and on ) like I did. Not because I thought he was a Mourinho in the making, but because he was unfairly scapegoated to a ridiculous degree that denied a prolonged period of decent results under the circumstances presented to him.

[i used to be sc_owl]

I repeatedly insisted at the time that Laws has his limitations and won't change my mind now despite Burnley's decent start. At some point I suspect things will deteriorate somewhat, but not like they did to us last October. And that was why I went on (and on and on and on ) like I did. Not because I thought he was a Mourinho in the making, but because he was unfairly scapegoated to a ridiculous degree that denied a prolonged period of decent results under the circumstances presented to him.

My main issue with Laws was that we were quite often a different team in each half of a match.

I lost count of the amount of times we would be awesome in the first half, and then abysmal in the second - or vice versa.

Any manager we bring in (if AI goes) needs to just adopt an all out attacking approach in my opinion.

Just bloody go for it and get some goals scored. That will get fans coming back.

[DJMortimer]

Any manager we bring in (if AI goes) needs to just adopt an all out attacking approach in my opinion.

Just bloody go for it and get some goals scored. That will get fans coming back.

It would be interesting to see how we would have fared if we had done just that.

Surely, with the players we have at this level, a couple of batterings would have been handed out, even if we might have lost a couple 2-3 or something?

[Guest Ogsowl]

At the risk of going off topic - it will be interesting to see if Burnley can maintain their form over the course of the whole seaosn.

The main problem is that if Irvine goes then I can't see any decent manager wanting the job which means any appointment is a huge gamble.

Exactly.

League 1.

Deep financial poo poo.

No-one worth his salt would want the job.

Whether you like it or not, or like him or not, we have to get behind AI and the players.

The future of the Club depends on it to a large degree, IMO.

[Lee Strafford]

Lee, please don't take this the wrong way, but you're starting to get on my nerves. Stop the name calling, this isn't a schoolyard. I won't ever call anyone on here some of the names you use. It's disgraceful. However much people get on your nerves - keep you head.

I fully understand that the financial state of the club can influence things, but that still doesn't justify 1 point out of a possible 15. The football continues and we, the fans, still expect the players to give it a go. If the players and manager want the crowd's support then they have to earn it and stop playing like a sunday league team. It can be excused for one or two matches, but as someone mentioned in this thread, the play wasn't even that good when we we're winning - in fact it was mostly dire - but we were lucky. Now we're not. But no matter what - I/we will continue to discuss football related matters regardless of the poo poo going on in the boardroom. You should be able to understand that - and keep the two seperate.

And

If the Co-op haven't forced the three stooges to stand down officially, then there's isn't much more we, as fans, can do atm in that regard according to HW. But that shouldn't and won't stop us hoping for investment and voicing our displeasure at their, now minimized, involvement.

It absolutely does and there is masses of evidence at our own club and others to prove it.

&

The fans have every substance to effect change and have done so already.

Everything that has been done over the summer has had an effect.

&

You are getting pissed off at me being difficult and making people face the real issues??? - Man up and see things through dude [said tongue in cheek]

Regards

Lee

[nile]

what is name calling and ranting at the people who have endured a decade of tripe going to achieve, it beggars belief that an ex chairman can speak to the soul of the club in this way, nowt like shooting are selves up the arse is their.

fans of our club should be praised not bloody slated.

[Beholder]

what is name calling and ranting at the people who have endured a decade of tripe going to achieve, it beggars belief that an ex chairman can speak to the soul of the club in this Wway, nowt like shooting are selves up the arse is their.

fans of our club should be praised not bloody slated.

exactly.

We are not a bunch of morons. We can see what is happening with our eyes. Lee your explanation may hold some credence but it does not explain Irvine tactics, team selection and morbid conservatism.

Edited September 29, 2010 by Beholder

[Lee Strafford]

what is name calling and ranting at the people who have endured a decade of tripe going to achieve, it beggars belief that an ex chairman can speak to the soul of the club in this way, nowt like shooting are selves up the arse is their.

fans of our club should be praised not bloody slated.

When standing in front of a bully what you do is look them in the eye and then back hand them across the face. Labelling shitty behaviour ultimately forces the people concerned to justify their behaviour and thats when the epiphany usually happens. The arseholes amongst us never change their behaviour and deserve everything they get.

&

Some fans should not be praised when they are are behaving like raving lunatics pouring petrol on a bonfire.

Regards

Lee

[Beholder]

When standing in front of a bully what you do is look them in the eye and then back hand them across the face. Labelling shitty behaviour ultimately forces the people concerned to justify their behaviour and thats when the epiphany usually happens. The arseholes amongst us never change their behaviour and deserve everything they get.

&

Some fans should not be praised when they are are behaving like raving lunatics pouring petrol on a bonfire.

Regards

uLee

You come across very badly on here lee. If it weren't for the fact you were the chairman, you would be treated with complete contempt for the way you post.

Edited September 29, 2010 by Beholder

[i used to be sc_owl]

It would be interesting to see how we would have fared if we had done just that.

Surely, with the players we have at this level, a couple of batterings would have been handed out, even if we might have lost a couple 2-3 or something?

There's still time to try. 4-4-2 with two wingers (Jones/Teale and JJ) and two out and out strikers i.e. Heff and Morrison. Then just go for it.

Simply cannot see Irvine doing it though.

Winning one, then losing one would still bring a better points per game ratio than what we have at the moment (simplistic way of looking at it, but will)...

Exactly.

League 1.

Deep financial poo poo.

No-one worth his salt would want the job.

Whether you like it or not, or like him or not, we have to get behind AI and the players.

The future of the Club depends on it to a large degree, IMO.

Doesn't mean we have to keep AI.

It just means we have to be very, very careful with the next appointment.

I said before we appointed AI that this appointment would be the most important in the clubs history. Looks like we got it wrong.

[Guest Nietzsche]

Maybe the selling of certain Palace players was the reason their form dipped?

If this sort of thing affects our players so badly they ought to be quoted a 'shop window' scenario, why, as professionals who are playing for a club in financial difficulties would there be a negative response to these conditions, as suggested?

1, Anybody coming in to any club with investment would have an absolute interest in what happens on this pitch as this is the main aspect of 'the product'.

2, Any players in any club under pending possible administration, take on an asset 'status'.

There is absolutely no way any professional in any field should 'dip' under our current predicament, they ought to be putting themselves in a win/win situation by playing their ar5es off.

By win/ win, I mean, new owners=safe shirt, admin=club wants to keep/better transfer deal.

I don't buy this uncertainty scenario, and I have been at the head of a division of a company which was taken over. OK there were areas where we couldn't predict the outcome, but because we had produced above satisfactory performance, we came out of it better than before the take over, because the yanks who bought us knew we were good, we became prized assets, partly why they wanted to take us over in the first place.

I see it only as unprofessionalism, so these NHS staff facing budget cuts and possible job losses decide not to do so well in the operating theatres ?

Excuses, excuses, excuses. Get somebody in to motivate them and give 'em a good kick up the ar5e.

Another interesting comment from the club employee i was with last night, "They don't train like they play" so whats going on ?????????

Absolutely Spot on!

I've just registered on here to express my dissapointment in the way Lee has insulted some of the fans who are airing legitimate concerns.

My impression has been that you are a decent man with the best interest of SWFC at heart, but your not doing yourself any favours with your condescending posts.

[Guest Briscoe Inferno]

Lee,

It is clear the financial issues have created huge instability.

Can I suggest you channel your energy into exposing the goings on behind the scenes, that you have been familiar with [or not as the case maybe] to OT and the wider fan base - this deploys your energy and genuine concern for the club as efficiently as possible in the circumstances.

Sgt. Wilko is doing everything he can to buy time.

We can and are doing our bit and vociferously backing the players as we always have done.

The players are themselves getting frustrated that their skills and attributes are not achieving the desired result. We are a 15 minute side - if things do not work out in this time, then heads go down - most of the interviews with the players refer to everything being ok 'if we can get an early goal'.

The fans backing, particularly away, just peters out after the first 15 as soon as it becomes clear there is no change from the previous weeks basic approach to a game.

BUT

The deployment of the right players in the right positions is not working - we were lucky in August [Harlepool aside] and looked fragile - the only real difference was the oppositions inability to capitalise on their chances.

The motivation and deployment of the players has to come from the manager and coaching staff.

Your inference that the players are letting the off field problems affect their game questions their professionalism [unless they are infact not getting paid] is IMO as equally damaging as criticism from those suffering poor tactics, team selection and playing to our strengths.

I don't doubt Irvines credentials as a good coach but his motivational skill and the other facets to team management are questionable and not helping galvanise firstly the players, then the fans in that order.

If we have a bottomline attendance to buy more time, then Irvine, however well intentioned and however hard working is proving to be uninspirational.

Confidence will stem from goals but he at least need to deploy the undoubted skills of these players to allow them to have a chance of achieving that objective.

Two shots on target in 90 minutes in our circumstances [as it was last year] is again asking for trouble.

Irvine needs to send out a clear signal to everyone that attack is the best form of defence - I am sure there would be no need for debate and petty name-calling when differing opinions are expressed if he changes his dour management style to a shock and awe approach creating chances rather than just shock.

4-3-3, shoot on sight and penetrating runs from midfield - just give it a go Alan, then we can all at least hold our heads and say we tried....

[i used to be sc_owl]

When standing in front of a bully what you do is look them in the eye and then back hand them across the face. Labelling shitty behaviour ultimately forces the people concerned to justify their behaviour and thats when the epiphany usually happens. The arseholes amongst us never change their behaviour and deserve everything they get.

&

Some fans should not be praised when they are are behaving like raving lunatics pouring petrol on a bonfire.

Regards

Lee

Seriously? I mean, seriously? How can you accuse other posters of this when quite often it is your posts that cause the metaphorical fire in the first place.

[Lee Strafford]

exactly.

We are not a bunch of morons. We can see what is happening with our eyes. Lee your explanation may hold some credence but it does not explain Irvine tactics, team selection and morbid conservatism.

Yes it does cause they are not his tactics and approach (two centre backs lumping it is what happens when a team has lost it / has given up) and if you ever listened to him you would know that.

If you saw them train (including the open training session at Hillsborough) you would see that. If you acknowledged the good stuff that was being played pre Brentford (no not all the time) you would be able to see that also.

Unless you believed that AI had a go at them after for playing on the deck and getting it out wide and playing with high energy levels, determination and passion - in which case you may also believe that he lied about wanting the pitch widened to play wing play. This would clearly explain how our crap manager was able to turn table toppers into relegation fodder and this clearly means that the pre brentford bombshell relating to the winding up order and the now ongoing threat of admin at any point is clearly irrelevant and you have every right to go after the manager and the player.

Jesus christ the lack of reason and logic being applied right now is truly frightening.................

Its about players delivering on the pitch which only ever happens when they are physically and mentally right. We were there pre Brentford and not since.

You can all waste your time and energy debating the play all you like but until the cancer is removed we are headed to admin and or in need of new owners that remove the cancer and on top of that we put negative pressure on the players we will be make things worse. Instead of the poison we should be saying "right lads its not your fault but you need to dig us out of it and we will back you if you apply yourselves" - so many of us are just taking all the pain out on the players and staff.

Regards

Lee

[Lee Strafford]

Seriously? I mean, seriously? How can you accuse other posters of this when quite often it is your posts that cause the metaphorical fire in the first place.

You know that is not the case.

Read this very thread and you will see me responding to arseholes making shitty posts in one manner and to other people in a different manner.

The key word there being RESPONDING.

You were guilty of that a lot last year and got the treatment for it dude............

From me you have and always will get honesty - if that honesty is uncomfortable at times then tough poo poo.

Regards

Lee

[Lee Strafford]

You come across very badly on here lee. If it weren't for the fact you were the chairman, you would be treated with complete contempt for the way you post.

You have always treated me with contempt dude.

So your sweeping statement holds no water.

Just because you have adopted the avatar does not mean that you have the character that needs to go with it.

Regards

Lee