DEFENSIVE FOOTBALL

[Lee Strafford]

Lee Ive generally been in agreement with you and agree with some of what you are saying.

But last night broke my heart. Ive been watching Wednesday 45 years, and in all that time Ive seen some really poor teams. But I have never felt like I did last night. It was like watching a loved family member finally pass away. The football is just so poor, the opposition keeper hasnt had a save to make in the last two games and we dont look capable of creating anything.

The board of directors are an absolute disgrace, and I agree wholeheartedly they have to go. But I feel totally helpless in making that happen

Last night was the final straw for me. They (the board) have finally broken my spirit. I just cant be part of this anymore. I feel like crying writing this. They have destroyed somrthing thats been the biggest part of life.

I just cant see any light at the tunnels end anymore. The only way to get them out is by leaving them as the only people sat in the ground. I just refuse to hand over anymore cash to keep them in prawn sandwiches and free parking plces.

ITS TIME TO GO. AND IM NOT GOING TO BE AROUND UNTIL YOU DO.

But it is happening.

Grierson was calling the shots until 3 weeks ago.

He is not now.

Now we need to demand rightly that they go so we can all get our heads round why we are where we are (Howard and Nick are shielding this issue and it is not helping one bit) and we can all play our part in turning the whole thing around.

If we put all our energies into slaughtering the players and the staff when they did not put us in the current situation then we will yet again fall into the casketeers trap.

Regards

Lee

[i used to be sc_owl]

Instead of arguing with me without even thinking go look at palaces points per game before and during admin.

You will then realise how wrong you are - god only hopes that the rest of the grown ups acting no different than that moron screaming "but teale has got a bentley" will wake up too.

One last time - Stop being flippingstupid!!!!!!!!!!! Pre brentford was for us the same event as when palace and Portsmouth went into admin. Ignore this and keep behaving like so many of us are now and we will be proper fooked as we will not pull our club out of admin and we will not work with any new owner.

Stop throwing poo poo arround about the quality of play as we were all gonna be unhappy until we were watching Hirst sheridan and waddle again - the issue is that the players collectively are not applying themselves the way they were before the poo poo hit the fan and that lost the games and now there is a confidence problem and our reaction is to hammer them when they were not the ones that fooked it all up.

I am telling you this from a position of knowledge and having the inside track at all levels of the club (and bang upto date).

No we do not get to claim that we are ignorant of off field matters effecting on field as that is the whole flipping story of what fooked up our club and we have all seen so many other clubs go the same way.

FFS - man up and be proper Yorkshire not the poisonous poo I have been watching this past few weeks. Support the staff and players and make sure that change is effected at the top of our club. Our energies should be focused at demanding that new owners are fast tracked in (not held back by unreasonable demands) and that in the absence of this a new regime is in place to take us through and out of admin.

Regards

Lee

Oh dear....

[BRADDAZ]

Oh so very clever arent we???

Stop this shitty behaviour, you are fuukin the club up and letting the real culprits of the hook.

Regards

Lee

Hahaha!!

The paying fan flipping the club up!

Nice one Lee.

That was your issue during your time at chairman wasn't it? 4-0 win over Scunny, Strafford on the Radio doing his Delia impression. What a crappy comment to make.

Seriously *dude* you hired an unproven manager on a 3 and half year contract knowing full well as a club we're on a knife edge. Bit flipping stupid don't you think?

Also, the stats don't lie over this season. We're bloody dire to watch and so easy to play against. It's horrific viewing. It's worse, yes worse than watching us under Turner. And what makes it sad is we have much better players now!

And I don't buy into this Admin talk pre Brentford game. Don't players payments take priority during an Administration process?

[Burtringham]

DJ out of interest, do you know exactly where we sit in the division, if position were based on goal attempts? From what you are saying I suspect it would be bottom, which to me speaks volumes.

Here you go. First figure is total shots on target and the second figure is shots off target. Puts us 4th bottom.

Peterborough 57 61

Southampton 54 57

Dagenham & R 51 57

Brentford 41 55

Leyton Orient 53 42

Carlisle 48 39

Huddersfield 35 51

Notts County 47 38

Oldham 43 41

Brighton 39 45

Yeovil Town 44 37

Bristol Rovers 41 39

Plymouth 37 43

Charlton 29 47

Swindon Town 36 38

Colchester 38 35

Hartlepool 37 36

Bournemouth 38 34

Walsall 38 32

MK Dons 32 36

Sheffield Wed 35 31

Exeter City 36 28

Rochdale 33 25

Tranmere 16 35

UTO

[DJMortimer]

We were told by the former Chairman that if you had the highest wage bill in the division you would be at the top.

We are living proof that this is nonsense as was the rise of Wimbledon to near the top of the premier league.

On the other hand shots on target seems a far better guide to league position

Generally speaking there is a very clear link between financial status and league position. Obviously there are significant exceptions, but over a long period of time it will tell in the end. Clubs like Barnsley, Swindon and Bradford may have had their time in the top flight, but it didn't take too long for them to return to their more historically normal level. If you expect the table of budgets to almost exactly match the one compiled on points, it's no wonder you think it's nonsense. But if you are prepared to take a wider and longer term view, the obvious cannot be denied.

Instead of arguing with me without even thinking go look at palaces points per game before and during admin.

Actually, this is quite true. Just after our demise last season I compiled a full league table based upon the points earned after Irvine's honeymoon period and Palace were something like third or fourth from bottom over the last 16 games. Unfortunately for us though, we were joint bottom with Peterborough on a mere 13 points. So despite their problems, they still outdid us.

Stop throwing poo poo arround about the quality of play as we were all gonna be unhappy until we were watching Hirst sheridan and waddle again - the issue is that the players collectively are not applying themselves the way they were before the poo poo hit the fan and that lost the games and now there is a confidence problem and our reaction is to hammer them when they were not the ones that fooked it all up.

More than most I have accepted the link between results on the pitch and the club's overall health away from it. I must have dished out more criticism of the board, over a longer period, than at least 90% of all other posters registered on this site. You may recall I was one of those who made it through to the latter stages of the disgraceful legal action initiated by them. Trust me, I am fully aware of who is most to blame for our current predicament (I actually posted a list of them a couple of weeks ago, including lesser known figures like Charterhouse's Geoff Arbuthnott) and am not likely to forget that, especially after some of them threatened me with a date in court. Might I refer you to the first of the supporter's letters published on the Time To Go website which was written by myself too?

That said, we simply cannot ignore what is happening on the pitch. There will always be verbal tennis played with tactics, selections and signings which sees many different opinions. But I think it's different this time. The flaws are so stark and so crushingly predictable that Preston fans were able to tip us off before Irvine even took his first game for us. Think about that for a moment - BEFORE he even got started they told us we'd be defensive, play long ball tactics to isolated strikers, he'd stick by his favourites no matter how bad they were or how well reserves were doing, would not entertain the idea of trying out younger players and would refuse to change things too much if they weren't working.

I fully accept that the team has absorbed some of the atmosphere around them and that we are now in a self-feeding cycle of poor performances fuelled by low confidence and lousy results. But to deny that Irvine has played a significant part in this, with little obvious prospect of breaking it, is fiddling while Rome burns. There is a large consensus amongst the supporters (certainly on Owlstalk at least) of some potential remedies. All football clubs have loud-mouthed morons (as exhibited at the director's entrance on Saturday evening) but perhaps not all of us complaining about what is going on fall into this category? Can we all really be flippantly dismissed as nothing but brainless fudders doing nothing but venting without thinking?

Sorry Lee, but just as Darren Potter is not the man you need in a highly pressurised scrap, Alan Irvine is not the man for this situation. If we finally secure the investment that removes the darker of the clouds that have hovered over the club these last dozen years or so, how confident should we be that the manager will suddenly feel the pressure come off and deliver what we all want to see? He has done almost NOTHING to suggest that is likely, and it would appear around half of the Preston support (where he did have decent funding) would agree.

Edited September 29, 2010 by DJMortimer

[BRUCE LEE]

Instead of arguing with me without even thinking go look at palaces points per game before and during admin.

You will then realise how wrong you are - god only hopes that the rest of the grown ups acting no different than that moron screaming "but teale has got a bentley" will wake up too.

One last time - Stop being flippingstupid!!!!!!!!!!! Pre brentford was for us the same event as when palace and Portsmouth went into admin. Ignore this and keep behaving like so many of us are now and we will be proper fooked as we will not pull our club out of admin and we will not work with any new owner.

Stop throwing poo poo arround about the quality of play as we were all gonna be unhappy until we were watching Hirst sheridan and waddle again - the issue is that the players collectively are not applying themselves the way they were before the poo poo hit the fan and that lost the games and now there is a confidence problem and our reaction is to hammer them when they were not the ones that fooked it all up.

I am telling you this from a position of knowledge and having the inside track at all levels of the club (and bang upto date).

No we do not get to claim that we are ignorant of off field matters effecting on field as that is the whole flipping story of what fooked up our club and we have all seen so many other clubs go the same way.

FFS - man up and be proper Yorkshire not the poisonous poo I have been watching this past few weeks. Support the staff and players and make sure that change is effected at the top of our club. Our energies should be focused at demanding that new owners are fast tracked in (not held back by unreasonable demands) and that in the absence of this a new regime is in place to take us through and out of admin.

Regards

Lee

I'm not arguing with you, I have the utmost respect.... just putting my points across as sincere as possible.

In regards to Palace, they won 3 on the spin straight after going into admin.... they only lost once in their last 7..... they had a good run in the FA cup and ultimately stayed in the league...

Thats a an excellent instant response and the overall outcome wasn't bad either. Had they not got docked the 10 our spineless lot would have been LONG gone.... therefore I think i have a valid point.

Back to the Owls,...I'm not in a position to comment on the inside track Lee, and thats why you will rarely see me question or debate at length on here anything to do with the boardroom, I simply don't have the facts to raise a sound argument..... but when we're talking 90 minutes of football, the events we ALL see... I like to air my views.... I won't boo at the game, I won't ring up football heaven, I won't stop going....

I use Owlstalk as a connection with other fans to discuss and debate whats happening on the pitch, i'm not 'flippingstupid', i'm not 'throwing poo poo around', I go to every game.... If i can't give my honest opinion on footballing matters, in the 'matchday section of this site then whats the point?

Not sure what you mean about manning up and being proper Yorkshire.... 'upfront honesty' is something we're born with isn't it..... and thats what i'm trying to put across.... Frustration is hard to bottle! (as you know)

[Lee Strafford]

Hahaha!!

The paying fan flipping the club up!

Nice one Lee.

That was your issue during your time at chairman wasn't it? 4-0 win over Scunny, Strafford on the Radio doing his Delia impression. What a crappy comment to make.

Seriously *dude* you hired an unproven manager on a 3 and half year contract knowing full well as a club we're on a knife edge. Bit flipping stupid don't you think?

Also, the stats don't lie over this season. We're bloody dire to watch and so easy to play against. It's horrific viewing. It's worse, yes worse than watching us under Turner. And what makes it sad is we have much better players now!

And I don't buy into this Admin talk pre Brentford game. Don't players payments take priority during an Administration process?

9 months notice - moron.

Very much proven and respected in the game - moron.

With regard to your last idiotic point - well you clearly are a moron - oh wait its braddaz form owlzone yup - moron.

Regards

Lee

Edited September 29, 2010 by Lee Strafford

[DJMortimer]

I'm not arguing with you, I have the utmost respect.... just putting my points across as sincere as possible.

In regards to Palace, they won 3 on the spin straight after going into admin.... they only lost once in their last 7..... they had a good run in the FA cup and ultimately stayed in the league...

Thats a an excellent instant response and the overall outcome wasn't bad either. Had they not got docked the 10 our spineless lot would have been LONG gone.... therefore I think i have a valid point.

It shouldn't be forgotten either that even the last day decider between us and Palace could have been rendered pointless had it not been for a last ditch goal line clearance by a West Brom defender whose name I can't even remember a few days earlier.

[Lee Strafford]

I'm not arguing with you, I have the utmost respect.... just putting my points across as sincere as possible.

In regards to Palace, they won 3 on the spin straight after going into admin.... they only lost once in their last 7..... they had a good run in the FA cup and ultimately stayed in the league...

Thats a an excellent instant response and the overall outcome wasn't bad either. Had they not got docked the 10 our spineless lot would have been LONG gone.... therefore I think i have a valid point.

Back to the Owls,...I'm not in a position to comment on the inside track Lee, and thats why you will rarely see me question or debate at length on here anything to do with the boardroom, I simply don't have the facts to raise a sound argument..... but when we're talking 90 minutes of football, the events we ALL see... I like to air my views.... I won't boo at the game, I won't ring up football heaven, I won't stop going....

I use Owlstalk as a connection with other fans to discuss and debate whats happening on the pitch, i'm not 'flippingstupid', i'm not 'throwing poo poo around', I go to every game.... If i can't give my honest opinion on footballing matters, in the 'matchday section of this site then whats the point?

Not sure what you mean about manning up and being proper Yorkshire.... 'upfront honesty' is something we're born with isn't it..... and thats what i'm trying to put across.... Frustration is hard to bottle! (as you know)

Please just look at the points per game pre and post and nothing else.

As to what happened immediately post admin - Warnock told his players he was going nowhere and a takeover would be done in weeks - then players started to not get paid and Warnock left.

The reality of admin hitting Palace had the same effect on our staff and players pre brentford and actually had the same effect on all of us the week of the court case!!!!!

Seriously, think about this properly.

Regards

Lee

Edited September 29, 2010 by Lee Strafford

[Wednesday-Wonderland]

I think everyone here agrees that the board are to blame for our current situation but you can't ignore Irvine's tactics and team selections. Despite having arguably the best squad in the league we've been awful all season apart from the Hartlepool game. Constant hoofball even though we don't have the players to make it work, and a negative "avoid losing" mentality instead of "play to win" has killed any chance we had of promotion. With the attacking options we have we should be going out on that pitch with a "if you score 4 we'll score 5" ethos, this league is not packed full of quality. Setting up to "keep it tight and hopefully nick a goal" against Carlisle at home is criminal. We are Sheffield Wednesday.

Attendances are going to continue to plummet as we not only fail to get wins, but play some of the worst football ever seen at Hillsborough while showing an almost complete lack of creativity and never looking like scoring.

People are starting to really hate going to watch us play, there were people in Hillsborough before the match who literally couldn't give tickets away.

[Lee Strafford]

I think everyone here agrees that the board are to blame for our current situation but you can't ignore Irvine's tactics and team selections. Despite having arguably the best squad in the league we've been awful all season apart from the Hartlepool game. Constant hoofball even though we don't have the players to make it work, and a negative "avoid losing" mentality instead of "play to win" has killed any chance we had of promotion. With the attacking options we have we should be going out on that pitch with a "if you score 4 we'll score 5" ethos, this league is not packed full of quality. Setting up to "keep it tight and hopefully nick a goal" against Carlisle at home is criminal. We are Sheffield Wednesday.

Attendances are going to continue to plummet as we not only fail to get wins, but play some of the worst football ever seen at Hillsborough while showing an almost complete lack of creativity and never looking like scoring.

People are starting to really hate going to watch us play, there were people in Hillsborough before the match who literally couldn't give tickets away.

THE PLAYERS STOPPED TRYING PRE BRENTFORD.

THE RESULTANT LOSSES HAVE KILLED CONFIDENCE.

NOONE PLAYS NICE FOOTBALL WHEN YOU ARE NOT TRYING AND THiS IS FOLLOWED BY A LOSS OF CONFIDENCE.

WHY DID THIS ALL HAPPEN??????????????

Regards

Lee

[Guest Sheff Owl]

Stop debating the style of play!!!!!!!!!

We are in virtual admin right now and could be in the real thing any day now!!!!!!!!!!

FFS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Regards

Lee

But that's ONE BIG PROBLEM - IT'S NOT WORKING!

Most people can see this.

We are hardly creating anything, you need to score to win games.

I'm not being funny but i'm fed up of hearing the same crap week in and week out...Irvine said ie he had watched Carlisle in the previous 2 games before us sohe will have known they had a CB in Lubomir Michalik - who is huge and would win everything in the air, so what do we do? We play to his strengths - their is no excuse for that.

The minute Heffernan came on he was troubled, he turned slower than a tank yet why did we not do this for the first 65 -70 minutes?

Last night was the same the Defenders won everything in the air and we continue with it.

Morrison has had a career or scoring goals - both club and country - but he comes here and we do everything Morrison can't do.

We have no pace at all in the team - what are teams scared off? pace - it just seems like Irvine has wiped all the creativity and pace out of us.

[DJMortimer]

Please just look at the points per game pre and post and nothing else.

As to what happened immediately post admin - Warnock told his players he was going nowhere and a takeover would be done in weeks - then players started to not get paid and Warnock left.

The reality of admin hitting Palace had the same effect on our staff and players pre brentford and actually had the same effect on all of us the week of the court case!!!!!

Seriously, think about this properly.

Regards

Lee

Crystal Palace went into administration on January 27th; below are their results after this date compared with ours in the same period :

PALACE P21 W5 D7 L9 PTS22

OWLS P20 W4 D7 L9 PTS19

On February 9th we had the last win in Irvine's honeymoon period and went above Palace, although they had a game in hand. They were one point above the relegation zone and could have been in no doubt that the pressure was on. After that :

PALACE P17 W3 D7 L7 PTS16

OWLS P16 W2 D7 L7 PTS13

[Lee Strafford]

THE PLAYERS STOPPED TRYING PRE BRENTFORD.

THE RESULTANT LOSSES HAVE KILLED CONFIDENCE.

NOONE PLAYS NICE FOOTBALL WHEN YOU ARE NOT TRYING AND THiS IS FOLLOWED BY A LOSS OF CONFIDENCE.

WHY DID THIS ALL HAPPEN??????????????

Regards

Lee

You know what I give up, just get on with it lads and knock yourselves out - its all to much like the posh people sat on the titanic saying I am not going to the lifeboats as this ship is unsinkable.

Regards

Lee

[BRADDAZ]

9 months notice - moron.

Very much proven and respected in the game - moron.

With regard to your last idiotic point - well you clearly are a moron - oh wait its braddaz form owlzone yup - moron.

Regard

Lee

BRADDAZ from Owlszone?

I've never been on Owlszone.

Lee Strafford resorts to name calling just for a change. Why should I try and debate anything with someone when all he can do is call you a 'moron'.

Pathetic.

As for the nine months... As soon as we can lets rid us of Irvine. You're appointments going to be a failure Lee. Preston fans warned us and Irvine has not disappointed.

[Eccy Owl]

Makes me laugh that people would still want this muppet as our chairman...

edit: I figured I should take an educated guess what i'll be called...i'm going for board stooge.

Edited September 29, 2010 by Eccy Owl

[jonnyowl]

I think alot of our problems stem from the inept passing off Purse and Beevers! They only know one thing and thats hit it long. Beevers used to be so ggod at brining the ball out of defence. Is it the manager telling him to play it long? Do the players realise themselves that their centre backs are winning everything? If we had players that played it short into midfield or played it to the strikers feet (Morrison and Heffernan seem to be good when its played to feet) I think our game would improve. I think our strongest midfield for this would be Teale Coke Miller Jones, all four seem to be comfortable on the ball, but what can they do if all Purse and Beevers hit it long all the time!

[BRADDAZ]

Oh and Lee... You say Irvine is proven and respected in the game.

Yes as a coach, but he's done **** all in management and that's what he is here.

Being a coach and being a manage is a total different kettle mate.

[Lee Strafford]

Crystal Palace went into administration on January 27th; below are their results after this date compared with ours in the same period :

PALACE P21 W5 D7 L9 PTS22

OWLS P20 W4 D7 L9 PTS19

On February 9th we had the last win in Irvine's honeymoon period and went above Palace, although they had a game in hand. They were one point above the relegation zone and could have been in no doubt that the pressure was on. After that :

PALACE P17 W3 D7 L7 PTS16

OWLS P16 W2 D7 L7 PTS13

The answer is 1.5 points per game pre admin and 1 point per game post.

Now stop and think.

Regards

Lee

[Lee Strafford]

BRADDAZ from Owlszone?

I've never been on Owlszone.

Lee Strafford resorts to name calling just for a change. Why should I try and debate anything with someone when all he can do is call you a 'moron'.

Pathetic.

As for the nine months... As soon as we can lets rid us of Irvine. You're appointments going to be a failure Lee. Preston fans warned us and Irvine has not disappointed.

Bullshit.

&

The vast majority of Preston fans said quite the opposite and this was evidenced by the reception Alan got at deepadale.

But you are obviously in sync with the morons at Preston - every club has em you know.

Regards

Lee