Sheffield Wednesday Fans Invest

[trevdi9]

pm'd you mate

ok mate willreply soon regards

[shabbyhouse]

The irony here is that a certain former Chairman offered to buy Wednesdayite's shares for 500k, with all the money going to the 'squad'.

I guess what's good for the goose is good for the gander!

On a serious note, I think the more the scheme is complicated and conditional, the less likely it will achieve its objective - unless its just a propaganda stunt as we have seen in the past.

The critical thing is for the club to back the initiative 100% and give it full backing and promotion in the media similar to what it did with the 'Save Our Owls' campaign in the 70's. This is the only way of appealing to the masses, businesses and wealthy fans out there.

The next step is to get the club's commitment and buy in and then I think it will have a great chance of success, particularly if the club can incentivise people by offering them their money back and a season ticket discount on return to the Premiership within a certain period of time.

I'm in complete agreement here.

I also recall Wednesdayite offering a sum of, was it £50k for a loan player a couple of seasons ago, and which self same offer was rejected? I hope that times have changed.

[shabbyhouse]

Speaking personally and not on behalf of the guys signed up in principle to BoBD's scheme:

I am perfectly aware of the ridiculous lifestyle of even our reserves that you allude to . We are just owls who want to help the club we love. Over examination of the whys and wherefors of lifestyles etc could go on for years, where do you start with that discussion Jimmy hill, Bosman or the introduction of Sky ?. these things simply cloud the issue; our club is struggling do you want to help, can you help? If yes brilliant, if no fine. My original idea was to get some money in before the transfer window closed that wasn't possible for a few reasons. The present initiative by BoBD is well intentioned and if I read his emails right the guy is extremely savvy when it comes to finance and will be ably assisted by 'Shabbyhouse' and a few other people with contacts on here and also myself.

Again speaking on my behalf you haven't disrupted any thread you have outlined what you see as pit falls. I don't agree on the Academy being the destination for any monies, but I agree with your later post where you say these donations are just that and this will be a point that will be discussed when the scheme is set up, and it will be as there are far too many credible people interested to let it die away.

When these discussion take place and that will be when the potential 'investors' have either publicly declared in or out - don't get me started on them! I would welcome you to join in. In fact everyone on here or other sites will be welcome to contact BoBD with offers of donations or help with formulation and administration of the scheme when it has been agreed with the Club.

I think professional footballers wages are ridiculous, like most professional footballers themselves, like the cars they drive, the clothes they wear and a host of other things, all ridiculous.

What, in my humble opinion, is not (or should not be allowed to be) ridiculous, is the club I've supported since I was 11 years old, in 1968. Just now, we run that risk, and I'm minded to do my utmost to prevent it. It may be too late this season, but if we can raise say £100,000, that's (ridiculously) a £10k/week loan player for 10 weeks. Would we have taken such a striker 8 weeks ago, for the cost to us (those who are lucky enough to be able to afford it) of a few hundred quid each? I couldn't have got to my cheque book quick enough.

Steelowl & I have been having this conversation, with various levels of frustration, for months now, and I'm made up that BoBD has posted the same thoughts, and that so many others have bought in. Good on ya, and if it's not your bag, then that's just fine. Just keep the faith, that's all.

I'm dead lucky. My business has done well these past 25 years, I only need to work part-time these days, my wife works full-time for a decent salary, and I have no kids to run round after.

What better way to fill the rest of a working day than by doing my best to help out Sheffield Wednesday Football Club? Not Lee Strafford, nor the ridiculous people who turn out on a Saturday in the timeless blue-and-white, but the indefinable, visceral something-or-other that inspires me every time I turn up.

Moreover, I count myself even luckier: I don't support Man Utd, Liverpool, the Blades or even Grimsby Town. It's been my great good fortune to end up supporting Sheffield Wednesday (through no choice of my own), and I wouldn't have it any other way; pain, joy, misery, fun, disappointment, the lot.

But it would be nice not to get relegated....

UTO!

[trevdi9]

I think professional footballers wages are ridiculous, like most professional footballers themselves, like the cars they drive, the clothes they wear and a host of other things, all ridiculous.

What, in my humble opinion, is not (or should not be allowed to be) ridiculous, is the club I've supported since I was 11 years old, in 1968. Just now, we run that risk, and I'm minded to do my utmost to prevent it. It may be too late this season, but if we can raise say £100,000, that's (ridiculously) a £10k/week loan player for 10 weeks. Would we have taken such a striker 8 weeks ago, for the cost to us (those who are lucky enough to be able to afford it) of a few hundred quid each? I couldn't have got to my cheque book quick enough.

Steelowl & I have been having this conversation, with various levels of frustration, for months now, and I'm made up that BoBD has posted the same thoughts, and that so many others have bought in. Good on ya, and if it's not your bag, then that's just fine. Just keep the faith, that's all.

I'm dead lucky. My business has done well these past 25 years, I only need to work part-time these days, my wife works full-time for a decent salary, and I have no kids to run round after.

What better way to fill the rest of a working day than by doing my best to help out Sheffield Wednesday Football Club? Not Lee Strafford, nor the ridiculous people who turn out on a Saturday in the timeless blue-and-white, but the indefinable, visceral something-or-other that inspires me every time I turn up.

Moreover, I count myself even luckier: I don't support Man Utd, Liverpool, the Blades or even Grimsby Town. It's been my great good fortune to end up supporting Sheffield Wednesday (through no choice of my own), and I wouldn't have it any other way; pain, joy, misery, fun, disappointment, the lot.

But it would be nice not to get relegated....

UTO!

good post mate

[trevdi9]

ok mate willreply soon regards

steelowl , did reply but your message box is full wont, accept message

[shabbyhouse]

good post mate

Thanks trev, and there's a lot of us about, too. Shame we didn't get into gear earlier, but we'll make this happen.

[trevdi9]

Thanks trev, and there's a lot of us about, too. Shame we didn't get into gear earlier, but we'll make this happen.

shabby house, respect to what your trying to do .as for me i am on benefits due to my wifes seriuse ilness ,

but if i can contribute in any small way cashwise i will endeaver to do so ,regards trevdi 9

[Aingarth]

On the original post, I think there is a case for supporters to invest. As I have said many a time, the current shares are owned mainly by supporters or supporter's family, with the exception of the release of new shares in 1997 and the Charterhose shares which did lead to a few individuals owning a lot.

Personally, I had a debenture in 1961 on the North Stand (a form of preference share), my family have bought B and C shares in the 1970s when the club was in trouble and I have bough some shares in the late 1990s - not to make money but in support of the club.

I think there are a lot of people who, under the right circumstances would do that. For the money to go to the club it would need to be a rights issue which is usually underwritten by a finance house (which is where Charterhouse and the Wednesdayite shares came in). In addition, the potential new investors would need to be clear about what would happen if a 'Big Investor' came in. Posters on here have strongly asked for the 'big three' to give their shares up. Well, maybe, but if you have just shelled out say £500 on new shares to improve the team and a big investor comes in and you lose your shares, you wouldn't be happy.

On the subsequent discussion about player's and also manager's wages, it's absolutley crazy. For there to be over 1,000 footballers in the Premier League to be on an absolute minimum of £1m per year and the average to be something like £3.5m is disgusting - frankly it takes the wee wee out of nearly every supporter. The celebrity culture con has made many people accept it and even hero worship these guys. But it's happened and that is now the market place and I don't think there is much we can do to change it - it needs a big Premier League club to go bust to get things sorted.

Edited April 22, 2010 by Andrew Robinson

[shabbyhouse]

shabby house, respect to what your trying to do .as for me i am on benefits due to my wifes seriuse ilness ,

but if i can contribute in any small way cashwise i will endeaver to do so ,regards trevdi 9

Massive thanks, trev. BoBD will have noticed, and steelowl too, so you're on the list, no matter what. That's how much Wednesday means, and that's the pride we're struggling to hang on to.

Best wishes to you both, mate, and particularly to your wife.

[trevdi9]

Massive thanks, trev. BoBD will have noticed, and steelowl too, so you're on the list, no matter what. That's how much Wednesday means, and that's the pride we're struggling to hang on to.

Best wishes to you both, mate, and particularly to your wife.

regards to you all UTO,WTID

[darra]

I just cannot stand by and watch on this thread, as much as I have tried. I have all the respect in the world for those pledging money to the club - I wish I felt differently - but I am going to have my say.

Our club is a business and not a charity. There are causes out there much, much more worthy of money than the club. By feeding the club money like this it is only going to become more and more reliant on income in excess of that it can generate as a business. The club must, MUST be brave and take a stand against the ridiculous excess in football. It must run the business as money in = money out as there is NO other model that is sustainable. If that means taking a decision not to sign a player as he wants 6/7k a week then that is the decision we must take. If it means saying no to the demands of a star striker wanting a new contract on double the money that is what we must do.

We have RESERVES driving Italian automotive exotica that cost in excess of £100,000. The idea that our fans would fund this excess even further makes me sick to the core.

Please, please - think very hard before you take the plunge on this. I simply ask you to reflect on the following:

1. What we have seen this season on a wage bill of close to 6 million per annum.

2. The lifestyles of the footballers we employ

3. The impact on you emotionally of seeing £1,000 of your money funding the wages of one average footballer for one day.

In my view any money gifted to the club must be routed into the academy and be kept well away from the first team squad.

I am sorry if this disrupts the thread or the intentions of it, but hopefully those promoting this idea will also welcome some challenge on their opinions.

Interesting discussion on the Talksport last night about Pompey and football in general and how to possibly solve some of the problems. Academies came up and it was suggested that going down the American draft system might be a way of spreading the cash. The counter argument was what would happen to the academy system currently in place. Danny Kelly claimed that the current academy system doesn't work with the ratio of successes to money invested being very low and also the amount of money invested being far less in this country compared to elsewhere. Be interested to hear others (Scram et al) thoughts on this.

[steelowl]

steelowl , did reply but your message box is full wont, accept message

go for it now trev

[capetownowl]

The irony here is that a certain former Chairman offered to buy Wednesdayite's shares for 500k, with all the money going to the 'squad'.

I guess what's good for the goose is good for the gander!

Freudian slip:biggrin:

The reason is that any new equity would still be sitting behind the bank's debt as well as the other loan note holders. The current shares have zero value unless the new equity is in some way used to reduce at least a portion of the debt. For example, a group of ex-Goldman bankers are trying to buy up bonds/senior debt on Man-U in a loan-to-own scheme. They're betting that Glazer's equity isn't worth a warm bucket of spit or perhaps slightly more. Control the debt, control the club.

Same thing would go for Norwich City. Enterprise value is maybe GBP 20 million but have GBP 24 million in debt. You'd have to buy out the bank at less than par and blow our the existing shareholders to make that deal work. On top of that, they're losing GBP 5 million a year. Play the debt, not the equity in that club.

Joe :wink:

You pay the debt but the shares stay in the original ownership.

The question was. How do you just cancel the shares as you suggested.

[trevdi9]

go for it now trev

done mate thanks for response

[edmontonowl]

On the original post, I think there is a case for supporters to invest. As I have said many a time, the current shares are owned mainly by supporters or supporter's family, with the exception of the release of new shares in 1997 and the Charterhose shares which did lead to a few individuals owning a lot.

Personally, I had a debenture in 1961 on the North Stand (a form of preference share), my family have bought B and C shares in the 1970s when the club was in trouble and I have bough some shares in the late 1990s - not to make money but in support of the club.

I think there are a lot of people who, under the right circumstances would do that. For the money to go to the club it would need to be a rights issue which is usually underwritten by a finance house (which is where Charterhouse and the Wednesdayite shares came in). In addition, the potential new investors would need to be clear about what would happen if a 'Big Investor' came in. Posters on here have strongly asked for the 'big three' to give their shares up. Well, maybe, but if you have just shelled out say £500 on new shares to improve the team and a big investor comes in and you lose your shares, you wouldn't be happy.

On the subsequent discussion about player's and also manager's wages, it's absolutley crazy. For there to be over 1,000 footballers in the Premier League to be on an absolute minimum of £1m per year and the average to be something like £3.5m is disgusting - frankly it takes the wee wee out of nearly every supporter. The celebrity culture con has made many people accept it and even hero worship these guys. But it's happened and that is now the market place and I don't think there is much we can do to change it - it needs a big Premier League club to go bust to get things sorted.

TBF, Andrew what you've said about the technical aspect of shares, etc is completely countered by the sentiment in this post:

Massive thanks, trev. BoBD will have noticed, and steelowl too, so you're on the list, no matter what. That's how much Wednesday means, and that's the pride we're struggling to hang on to.

Best wishes to you both, mate, and particularly to your wife.

Wednesday the club comes first.

[edmontonowl]

Interesting discussion on the Talksport last night about Pompey and football in general and how to possibly solve some of the problems. Academies came up and it was suggested that going down the American draft system might be a way of spreading the cash. The counter argument was what would happen to the academy system currently in place. Danny Kelly claimed that the current academy system doesn't work with the ratio of successes to money invested being very low and also the amount of money invested being far less in this country compared to elsewhere. Be interested to hear others (Scram et al) thoughts on this.

North American sports are more of a closed system than football, which is siginficnat;y more global. In a way Academies are already "drafting" the better players. In North America, those that make the grade can make the step up to the professional game because there's less trading of other professionals. In football, there's many many more professionals that can be traded via the transfer system, thereby reducing the number of oportunities for young draftees

[Aingarth]

TBF, Andrew what you've said about the technical aspect of shares, etc is completely countered by the sentiment in this post:

Wednesday the club comes first.

Afraid you have lost me - are you saying that there are people like me who are prepared to put some money in, or not?

[edmontonowl]

Afraid you have lost me - are you saying that there are people like me who are prepared to put some money in, or not?

I understood you to be saying that you didn't support the fans investing as per the OP and in reply I was pointing out that the cold business approach is not what the idea is all about. Rather it's about the emotional side of investing.

If I misunderstood, then fair enough

[damianb1]

I think professional footballers wages are ridiculous, like most professional footballers themselves, like the cars they drive, the clothes they wear and a host of other things, all ridiculous.

What, in my humble opinion, is not (or should not be allowed to be) ridiculous, is the club I've supported since I was 11 years old, in 1968. Just now, we run that risk, and I'm minded to do my utmost to prevent it. It may be too late this season, but if we can raise say £100,000, that's (ridiculously) a £10k/week loan player for 10 weeks. Would we have taken such a striker 8 weeks ago, for the cost to us (those who are lucky enough to be able to afford it) of a few hundred quid each? I couldn't have got to my cheque book quick enough.

Steelowl & I have been having this conversation, with various levels of frustration, for months now, and I'm made up that BoBD has posted the same thoughts, and that so many others have bought in. Good on ya, and if it's not your bag, then that's just fine. Just keep the faith, that's all.

I'm dead lucky. My business has done well these past 25 years, I only need to work part-time these days, my wife works full-time for a decent salary, and I have no kids to run round after.

What better way to fill the rest of a working day than by doing my best to help out Sheffield Wednesday Football Club? Not Lee Strafford, nor the ridiculous people who turn out on a Saturday in the timeless blue-and-white, but the indefinable, visceral something-or-other that inspires me every time I turn up.

Moreover, I count myself even luckier: I don't support Man Utd, Liverpool, the Blades or even Grimsby Town. It's been my great good fortune to end up supporting Sheffield Wednesday (through no choice of my own), and I wouldn't have it any other way; pain, joy, misery, fun, disappointment, the lot.

But it would be nice not to get relegated....

UTO!

Great post. its the sentiments of those concerned that will one day get this club back where it belongs.

UTO & WTID & for the next 6 hours UP THE BAGGIES BOING BOING