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Maybe Irvine isn't negative..


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Do agree AI seems negative - as evidenced by none-use of (two) subs yesterday, but maybe he does know what he's doing? He won 5 out of 7 matches when he arrived. And did well at Preston, kept them up then got them to playoffs. But think it's far too early to write the guy off - not down yet, and his strategy so far has obviously been to keep it tight at back and pick up draws rather than risk losing - the theory being not gettin beat and pickin up steady points must be better for morale than maybe winnin one and losin a few?

There seems to be an assumption on here that we're already down, and while I fear the worst, and think we need to much more positive in our play than yesterday v Palace, as it's looking highly likely we'll need to win to stay up.

Think Palace will get beat and therefore we will have it in our own hands come the final game. Not wantin to get into Laws argument but think most would agree we'd probably be already down by now if he were still here, or in Plymouth's position and virtually down. Managers get less and less time nowadays, and Laws had to go as players just weren't playing for him, but FFS calling for manager's head after 3 months???!!! And we're not even relegated yet.

My feeling is that it doesn't matter who's manager as the main reason we constantly fail is as stated above, we've consistently replaced our best players with far inferior quality.

I'd love to know who the top drawer, never-been-sacked manager we should have appointed is

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Which manager would have done better with the players Ted has to work with? Mourinho? (Sacked by Chelsea) Ferguson? Even he has been sacked (by St. Mirren) so is a failure??

I think we did well getting a manager the calibre of Irvine when he knew he was getting no money and having to make do with the obviously poor squad we had. The realistic alternatives (due to having no money) would have come from lower leagues like Laws did who was proved to be out of his depth. Sorry but Keegan is a non-starter - the shambles at Newcastle was constructive dismissal, and he admitted not being good enough for England. But when he was 'successful' he had money and loads of it, in the days when a non-ManU/Chelsea/Arsenal/Liverpool could challenge for title, and showed he had zero tactical nous. Wouldn't have any money here and doesn't strike me as being able to work on a shoestring, not that he'd ever come here anyway.

So in response to the OP, maybe AI isn't negative, and sees a steady stream of single points and not getting beaten, as preferable to being less solid at the back but possibly more offensive. Think we should attack Cardiff from the off (KK stylee!) and go for the win, if we can get it, a draw would be OK v Palace which is what i think will happen. But if we do lose at Cardiff, we still go into last game with destiny in our hands. I'm basing this on the fact that Palace will lose or at best get a draw from WBA game, but as this is played 2 days after ours I expect AI to go cautious again and try and get a draw. But may as well go for a win, as a draw is as bad as a loss putting us (probably) 1 or 2 points behind Palace going into last match. DRAWS ARE NO GOOD ANYMORE - WE NEED WIN(S)

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Where's Danny Wilson in all this chaos.

The main point I was making was the precedent of managers taking over in the middle of a season when we were down in the crapper and whether the new guy could make a big difference or not.

That situation didn't apply to Wilson.

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Guest intercity0wl

We saw what Mr Irvine assembled with his own signings and a reported £11m wage bill

He got sacked

Yep for producing a team that made the play offs last season, a team that will finish higher than us this, and will be playing championship football next season.

These fantasy manager games have alot to answer for, its produced millions of top managers who can assemble winning teams easily but without the pressure of having to actually try and do it and man manage players who they had no say in picking and none of the day to day and matchday pressurs to deal with, easy ain't it..

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Doesn't work but I imagine it's made up of stuff like Uniteds £3M signing of Ched Evans

Sorry - just copy and paste the whole link into your browser.

Chairman said in this interview (Oct 2009) their wage bill puts them into the top 6 or 8 payers in the league.

Interestingly Darren Ferguson said last week that it is key he reduces the PNE wage bill over the summer as their accounts show £5.7 million on football wages for the last 6 months alone.

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From the link posted by mcmigo...

Matt: Plenty of questions and stuff to be getting on with, lots of it will be to do with the financial situation. Obviously, all clubs outside of the Premiership are always facing financial uncertainty. One of the big topics with Notts County getting investment this year is about takeovers and takeover offers. The first question for you Mr Shaw is would PNE plc be willing to listen to takeover offers?

Derek (Shaw - chairman): The answer to that is a 'yes'. I think that at this moment in time there are not many clubs in he UK that wouldn't be willing to listen to takeovers. A football club at this level is very expensive. I was only looking the other day when Preston North End first went into the Championship in 2000/01, our wage bill including football staff was £4.3 million and our wage bill this financial year will be in excess of £11 million, that's players and football staff. That doesn't include any editions to the playing squad and that doesn't include the general running of the football club and the administrative staff. I can assure you the answers to that, as I have said many a time, would be yes.

Matt: Whose job would it be to source these outside investments or to look for somebody who perhaps would want to invest in Preston North End?

Derek: I think most people who are interested in football clubs receive an approach either through a lawyer, through an agency or through something like that. We have actually spoken in the past to people who specialise in this field and we have made it known that if the right type of offer was available, we would certainly be willing to listen. Then that would have to be put to the shareholders and the major shareholders. It isn't just my decision, something like that but I can assure you, but if somebody comes along with the right type of funding to push this club to the very next level, I very much doubt that there will be many of our shareholders who would stand in the way.

Matt: Some of those shareholders do actually make big investments in the club so we can't write that off completely. Mr Hemmings we know likes to take a back seat role, but he has a big financial role in the football club.

Derek: Without a shadow of a doubt. Over the last few years his assistance has helped us immensely in recruitment and wages going forward. I seem to keep being told now we have a small squad; yes, we do have a small squad of about 21 pros, but we also have five young pros underneath that and our small squad are paid significant Championship money and if we have approaching £11 million going out in player and staff wages, we could have players of lesser quality and have 30 players at the football club. Twelve months ago we probably had about 28 players at the football club with eight players who didn't seem to have much chance of getting a game. Now we have a smaller squad and all of these players are first team players.

Ben: This also shows that there is a misconception there, that Preston are a small club in the pool within the Championship in terms of wages going out, but that is not true. It may have been the case when we first came into the division, but as Derek said earlier the wages have gone from four and a bit million pounds to £11 million and I think that will now put us close to the top six or top eight payers in the division.

Derek: Unfortunately we can't afford 28 or 30 senior player like West Brom or Newcastle who probably might have 40. I don't know how many Middlesbrough have, but some of these bigger clubs have got quite a number of extra players, 28 or 30 like I just said. But we have a very highly paid squad for our level and we could have a bigger squad, but possibly the quality would be reduced.

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Yep for producing a team that made the play offs last season, a team that will finish higher than us this, and will be playing championship football next season.

These fantasy manager games have alot to answer for, its produced millions of top managers who can assemble winning teams easily but without the pressure of having to actually try and do it and man manage players who they had no say in picking and none of the day to day and matchday pressurs to deal with, easy ain't it..

Don't shoot them messenger

People wanna wait and see what team the manager will produce - they just have to take a peek across the pennines

Their chairman (who you can choose to disbelieve) has stated they had an £11m+ wage bill

That's what Mr Irvine produced for virtually twice what he'll get to play with here

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Maybe we're poo poo......

He has only got what he has to work with.

Let him get his own team in place before we judge him too quickly.

I agree with this.

AI blatantly is terrified of changing personell and has no faith in most of the players on the bench.

He came in with the idea of keeping it simple and hoping for the best, because our confidence was so wrecked, we know what happens to this team when we go behind and how poor we are at defending when we go all out attack. So it makes sense IMO to tighten it up.

I didnt think we were all that negative vs United, it was an edgy stop start game where wingers couldnt see much of the ball. Just a shame one or two didnt have the urgency about them.

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I wouldnt...not now

no he has parkinsons which is a real shame. He wont be managing a football team again. So i wish him happiness and my thoughts go out to him and his family.

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Guest danny wath owl

Fukin idiots ,irvine was best manager in years before this dip in results...

We cant play too attacking because we need points so we have to

scrap for points .. Give him a pre season and chance to get his team

.....instead of being fickle twats like the inbre. Lot across town..

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My jigsaw analogy wasn't about having a poor midfield, it was about our teams ineffectiveness at playing the long ball game. Before anyone mentions Laws, he had resorted to being direct during the middle of last season.

AI likes to play the way the piggies do, he mght have said he likes pretty football but when I saw Preston last year they just played percentage football. That is what we have to get used to. Unfortunately our team doesn't have the right players to play this way.

I would have preferred AI to find a system that best suits his players, being a bit more adaptable rather than going with what he knows and trying to find players in the squad who can fit in.

Now some might think Sven's England tried to fit players into a system and it didn't work but in international football who havea lot more resources available to you to go with the system you want.

We have **** all we do not have the squad. If AI wants to be direct then he must play the ball into the channels, if it means having a wide player and a forward in close proximity then so be it and let the opposition worry about whom is going to mark whom.

A shame out forwards like to take the easy way out and stand next to the central defender instead of making them work.

I am still unsure aboyut AI as he doesn't have the players he wants but he appears unable to adjust his preferred style of play to suit the players at his disposal.

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