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I agree to some extent (I live in Boston too and know this has had an impact on the town) but 'automatic relegation' would bring too many logistical problems. Ie, the quashing of all results and league being adjusted accordingly, who would automatically be promoted? If you mean do this at the end of the season, this makes more sense, but if a team goes into Admin in the 10th game of the season, then would the 36 following games be fair to play? Knowing our luck, they would beat us and then we would feel it is unjust.

A 20-30 point deduction would however serve this purpose.

The relegation would come at the end of the season but I also like the idea of a 20 - 30 point deduction. Where I think the 10 points in inadequate is in the case of Cardiff ( who I know it's too late to do it for this season ) went into admin today would drop to 8th place 6 points off the play offs.

Edited by darra
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Even if they started tomorrow they'd be the best part of two decades too late.

It doesnt suit them to do anything about it, especially the premiership.

There are a minority who are getting very rich off the whole scenario of an uneven playing field which essentially creates the need for teams to spend beyond their means.

I wish there was some way to change things, as seen in Formula 1 where the big boys noses were put out of joint for the sake of the sport. But in football, they all seem to be in cahoots.

Edited by Bluesteel
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It's no good complaining about the FL, other clubs' behaviour and a too small punishment for going into administration.

We have to deal with the world as it is. Otherwise we become martyrs. Bit like Dave Richards saying he wiuldn't sack Danny Wilson because other clubs were doing too much of it.

If we have to be prudent because of our banker and just accept there's nothing left to do, we will stay in League 1 forever on our budget. Laws got the job at Burnley because of his achievements at a cash strapped club which did not really belong in the Champship. Is that how we want it to be?

What I was suggesting was that the reason why we are in such trouble this season is trhat we are short of cash and we are too dependent on getting crowds up to watch poor football for our team to be strengthened.

Clubs today have to tap all sources of income and the poster who said we had exceeded the bank's strictures hit the nail on the head. We are controlled by their limits so we have to show different methods of raising cash, especially from sponsors. We have to make up for our sacrifices in charitable activities too. Incidentally, we are not getting much publicity for that, as somebody pointed out last week when those hooligans were jailed

Board members are surely networking their business contacts to invite them to a role on the board ( that's how Dave Allen got in) and hopefully put in the half million that Dave Allen insisted on as an entrance ticket , to pay for reserved seating and executive boxes, space in the ground for shops, even hotels, and for promotional measures like rolling advertising boards. We need lots of this. We seem to have got the conference business flying now, actually, which is good.

We cannot rely on getting income from crowds up as our main income raising activity.

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I am sure you are right. But they are coming in lower numbers now not higher.

My point is that browbeating people into paying good money to watch football of poor quality is the wrong way round.

We need to show we have ideas on how to improve the quality to persuade more to attend. We are not a charity, though fast becoming one, where we turn up to pay because we feel sorry for the rubbish our overpaid footballers serve up for us on a budget which is unrealistically low.

Quite a few may be happier making a donation without having to turn up to suffer, and that's how close we are to becoming a charity appealing for other people's money.

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mate, I think you hit the nail on the head. I've been thinking about this a lot lately. If the debt only costs half a million a year to service then it doesn't make that much of a difference to our plight. The problem is we don't spend more than we have whereas many other teams do.

The debt makes a HUGE difference to our plight

It means we can't raise cash - and we're unattractive to investors

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Guest wincobankowl

This topic came up the other day whilst in the pub.

Or more specifically why are we so struggling for cash despite having decent crowds, (Very good crowds compared to some), and relatively low debt/finance costs.

I know we hear regularly from the Club that other clubs are overspending and they will soon be cutting back to our levels, or are being funded beyond their means by 'investrors' .

These sort of comments are widely viewed with cynicism and accusations of spin and BS usually follows.

So I thought I would have a quick look at what is actually happening and why we being out performed by teams like Blackpool, Bristol and Preston.

Blackpool.

Their major shareholder is a guy called Owen John Oyston who seems to have a colourful background (recently served 6 yrs for rape) and a fortune of over £100m.

In the last few years he has attracted the investment of a Latvian millionaire, Valeri Belokon (worth over £200) who now owns 20% of the club and looking at taking on the ownership.

These 2 betwen them personally fund the Club and are paying for the redevelopment of the ground.

No idea about spending levels, but reports quote Belokon is personally funding wages and Holloways transfers. So it safe to assume they are spending well above their station.

Bristol City

Their accounts are available on the webpage and quite honestly if I was a Bristol fan I would be worried.

Last year turnover was £11.7m

Wages a massive £10.2m

Overall loss of £6.5m

Also lost 2m pervious year.

these loses are being absorbed by the Board pumping their own money in.

Preston

Again their account are there for all to see.

Last year Turnover was just £8.1m

Wages £11.24m

Resulting in a loss of £6m

Also lost £3.4m year before.

Interim accounts for the first 6 months of this year dont read well either.

Income of £5.21m and yet already spent £5.8m on wages!!!

So these teams are living, well, well above their means and have playing budgets nearly double ours and we wonder why we are struggling to compete???

These were the first few teams I looked at, but when you throw in the well documented situations at Newcastle, Middlesborough, QPR, Cardiff, United, Palace and Watford it is clear that we are being massively gunned financially by Clubs that can and are curently putting their futures on the line.

Maybe Lee Strafford is and was bang on the money when he talks about other clubs and their finances?

The unfortunate thing is, there is not a lot we can do about it except grab every penny we can, grind out the next couple of years and hope these Clubs come back to our level.

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This topic came up the other day whilst in the pub.

Or more specifically why are we so struggling for cash despite having decent crowds, (Very good crowds compared to some), and relatively low debt/finance costs.

I know we hear regularly from the Club that other clubs are overspending and they will soon be cutting back to our levels, or are being funded beyond their means by 'investrors' .

These sort of comments are widely viewed with cynicism and accusations of spin and BS usually follows.

So I thought I would have a quick look at what is actually happening and why we being out performed by teams like Blackpool, Bristol and Preston.

Blackpool.

Their major shareholder is a guy called Owen John Oyston who seems to have a colourful background (recently served 6 yrs for rape) and a fortune of over £100m.

In the last few years he has attracted the investment of a Latvian millionaire, Valeri Belokon (worth over £200) who now owns 20% of the club and looking at taking on the ownership.

These 2 betwen them personally fund the Club and are paying for the redevelopment of the ground.

No idea about spending levels, but reports quote Belokon is personally funding wages and Holloways transfers. So it safe to assume they are spending well above their station.

Bristol City

Their accounts are available on the webpage and quite honestly if I was a Bristol fan I would be worried.

Last year turnover was £11.7m

Wages a massive £10.2m

Overall loss of £6.5m

Also lost 2m pervious year.

these loses are being absorbed by the Board pumping their own money in.

Preston

Again their account are there for all to see.

Last year Turnover was just £8.1m

Wages £11.24m

Resulting in a loss of £6m

Also lost £3.4m year before.

Interim accounts for the first 6 months of this year dont read well either.

Income of £5.21m and yet already spent £5.8m on wages!!!

So these teams are living, well, well above their means and have playing budgets nearly double ours and we wonder why we are struggling to compete???

These were the first few teams I looked at, but when you throw in the well documented situations at Newcastle, Middlesborough, QPR, Cardiff, United, Palace and Watford it is clear that we are being massively gunned financially by Clubs that can and are curently putting their futures on the line.

Maybe Lee Strafford is and was bang on the money when he talks about other clubs and their finances?

The unfortunate thing is, there is not a lot we can do about it except grab every penny we can, grind out the next couple of years and hope these Clubs come back to our level.

Good post that mate, it makes you wonder how many of these teams will go pop in the next few years doesnt it?

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Unfortunately, playing by the rules wil send us down. Realising we're millions in debt we've adjusted our outgoings accordingly and suffered for it while other clubs in a similar position keep on spending and succeed. Looking at Cardiff - on the verge of going out of business but still spent £4m on Chopra and now reside in the play offs. Crystal Palace - twice in administration and now seemingly getting away with it by clearing their debts and staying in this division at our expense. It stinks.

I agree - and for this reason, frugally run clubs like us struggle to gain investment as football has become a huge black hole when money is lost and returns not made. What is 10 points - certainly not a lot for a club which is likely to amass a lot more than the 50-54 required for safety. Worth a gamble if it means getting into the playoffs or instant promotion with the rewards that come with it.

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He talks about it being a pity we finished with 86 points last year and we couldn't progress.

"We need to sign some players, we need to bring in some money. We need an investor and then we can challenge in a better way.

"The players are working so hard and they feel they can do more.

"We need now to perform on the pitch and create a better situation for the new investors."

Quotes from.....................................................

Benitez was speaking ahead of Thursday's second leg against Benfica at Anfield, with his side trailing 2-1 on aggregate.

So give LS a break.......................

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But we see clubs with huge debts being taken over fairly regularly. Would you not concede that it is our spread of shares that make us difficult to invest in?

I don't think the share spread is too much of a problem - it doesn't necessarily make things easier - but nothing insurmountable

But i think it's undeniable our debt is a huge millstone

I think generally that our huge debt makes us unattractive

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I don't think the share spread is too much of a problem - it doesn't necessarily make things easier - but nothing insurmountable

But i think it's undeniable our debt is a huge millstone

I think generally that our huge debt makes us unattractive

Might have to agree to disagree on this one mate.

I'm not denying the debt is a problem - it is. But at £500K a year to service I don't think it's a massive hinderence to the day-to-day running of the club. In terms of getting investment, then yeah it makes us less attractive than no debt.

However, if we had a majority shareholder, or two shareholders who owned 50%+ of the shares then I think we would have been taken over long ago - debt or no debt.

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Might have to agree to disagree on this one mate.

I'm not denying the debt is a problem - it is. But at £500K a year to service I don't think it's a massive hinderence to the day-to-day running of the club. In terms of getting investment, then yeah it makes us less attractive than no debt.

However, if we had a majority shareholder, or two shareholders who owned 50%+ of the shares then I think we would have been taken over long ago - debt or no debt.

I don't think the share spread is too big a problem - but "buying" a £30m debt is

It also stops us generating cash so in that regard i do see it hindering the daily running of the club on that level.

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I agree - and for this reason, frugally run clubs like us struggle to gain investment as football has become a huge black hole when money is lost and returns not made. What is 10 points - certainly not a lot for a club which is likely to amass a lot more than the 50-54 required for safety. Worth a gamble if it means getting into the playoffs or instant promotion with the rewards that come with it.

Totally agree with your post

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Most other clubs get their hands on all that cash by getting into debt though - with a few having good acadamies that let them sell a player a season for big bucks.

So how did SWFC manage to get close to £30m in debt then?

Surely, you are accusing other clubs of being guilty of the same thing you are guilty of ?

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