Who will be the next youngster to break into the 1st team?

[CJowL19]

We've obviously seen the likes of Spurr, Beevers, Wood etc... come through the academy in recent years, and go on to become regulars in the first team squad.

So, Out of the current academy squad, who do you think could, or will, go on to become a first team regular?

I went to Frickley in pre-season and was quite impressed with Oliver, Palmer and Nick Wood on that occasion.

Sorry if this has been asked before.

[TheBoyBeevers]

There are 4 or 5 second year scholars who have the ability to break into the first team in the next year or so.

Modest, Cottingham, Barnett, Palmer and Oliver are the main lads that catch the eye. Oliver and Modest will probably fancy their chances what with the first team lacking in strikers, and Liam Palmer has already got a taste of what it's like with the first team.

If i was a betting man i'd probably put my money on Modest coming through next, with Palmer a very close second. That said, all of the players i'v mentioned are talented guys and could easily make the step up in the future.

Being perfectly honest, i don't see a future for Nick Wood sadly (although he's already got a pro contract so isn't technically an academy player as such)- he still might make it in football, but i don't think he's good enough to break into the first team scene. The same applies for Callum Harrison IMO, who is a tidy player but will struggle to break into the first team with us having so many midfielders on our books. Tunnard will probably be released in the summer IMO.

I expect Wragg to stay though- i like him, he's got bite and fight which is normally missing in pro footballers nowdays.

[malek]

I think that we are sadly lacking the link with a conference side to send dose players on the verge of the first team to get bit of mach sharpness and (non)league experience.

My bat on the next one to break through is Oliver, mainly due to his versatility, and physical presence that can always get used at this level. Although I would perhaps class him as the least talented of 5 TBB mentioned in the post above.

[TheBoyBeevers]

I think that we are sadly lacking the link with a conference side to send dose players on the verge of the first team to get bit of mach sharpness and (non)league experience.

My bat on the next one to break through is Oliver, mainly due to his versatility, and physical presence that can always get used at this level. Although I would perhaps class him as the least talented of 5 TBB mentioned in the post above.

I'd agree with you Malek, in terms of natural ability he isn't anywhere close to Palmer, Cottingham or Barnett. Modest has come on leaps and bounds over the last year in terms of his technique and understanding of the game so credit has to go to him for that. He's still got just as much chance as any of the others of earning a deal though, because he's better placed to cope with the physical step up as you say.

I also very much agree that the 2nd years need some competitive experience as well.... the unofficial link with Shefield FC isn't enough- the club need to try and sort something out with a club at league 2 level (Rotherham would be handy geographically speaking) to break these boys into adult football. Unless that happens, then we'll lose loads of talented kids every year because they are shell shocked with the difference between reserve/academy matches and professional matches.

[CJowL19]

I think that we are sadly lacking the link with a conference side to send dose players on the verge of the first team to get bit of mach sharpness and (non)league experience.

My bat on the next one to break through is Oliver, mainly due to his versatility, and physical presence that can always get used at this level. Although I would perhaps class him as the least talented of 5 TBB mentioned in the post above.

I think this is a key point.

Players' physical attributes are taken into consideration a lot these days (look at Stoke, they don't have many players less than 6'0" tall!). If you're a decent size and like road runner in terms of your pace, you have a very good chance.

Oliver, from what i remember of him, is a tall lad (actually reminded me of Jermaine Beckford in a way, perhaps without his pace). While we all know Modest has got pace in abundance... Would be great to see them come through, maybe next year

I also agree with you both regarding the need for an official affiliation (either in League 2 or Blue Square Premier would be ideal)

[scram]

I also very much agree that the 2nd years need some competitive experience as well.... the unofficial link with Shefield FC isn't enough- the club need to try and sort something out with a club at league 2 level (Rotherham would be handy geographically speaking) to break these boys into adult football. Unless that happens, then we'll lose loads of talented kids every year because they are shell shocked with the difference between reserve/academy matches and professional matches.

TBh most academy lads aren't good enough for league 2 football - they don't want to be "proving grounds" for clubs higher up the pyramid - they want players to enhance their team

I've seen loads of academy and young players go on loan/trial at lower levels and very often they're nowhere near the required standard

The link with a lower club won't work - and what about the own young players at these clubs - discard them to give players from other clubs experience?

The reason many young players don't get decent loan experience is because they're not deemed good enough by potential loaning clubs - and then clubs are much more likely to take a punt on a player from the better academies

There is absolutely no reason - none at all - why a club like Rotherham would want a formal link with a club like us - Arsenal or Man U maybe

But those clubs don't want or need formal links with lower league clubs over here

[TheBoyBeevers]

I agree that we shouldn't be attemping to turn someone like Rotherham into a 'mini SWFC'. I'm not talking about us sending half a dozen players at a time there... just a couple throughout the season, clubs at that level will always be struggling with small squads because of finances, and a couple of talented youngsters, who's wages are still being paid by SWFC could be a very attractive proposition for those clubs, if only to sit on the bench for most games (it would still be better for our lads' progression to get a few minutes every week or two, than stay and play U18's for SWFC)

As things stand, it's going to take something really special for a player to break through and stay in the first team- not because of a lack of talent (as i'v mentioned there are a few extremely talented 2nd scholars at the moment) but because they just don't have the experience of professional football to deal with the challenge.

[scram]

But there's nothing to stop clubs taking our youngsters now - but they're not - so it suggests those players aren't deemed good enough for league 2 football by those clubs.

But all players start somewhere - every single player in the world had zero experience at some point - but the ones that make it through show they are worth sticking with as youngsters

Maybe over the last few years our kids haven't showed that level of promise - not only have they not broken into our team but we're not turning out professional quality players at any level - and maybe that's why we struggle to place our players with other clubs for experience?

Our product just isn't good enough?

Edited March 17, 2010 by scram

[malek]

Scram mate, some of this current generation playing for U-18's were touted of as potential first team players looong before they joined our academy. I was assured that there is abundance of talent between them, and would be very surprised if at least 5 2'nd year graduates don't get offer of a pro deal with us.

It was said by Sean McAuley that for him academy football is not about results, but developing talented players. I can tell you from experience that two don't have to go hand in hand, and looking at line-ups we played may suggest that. "Apparently" it is not about playing strongest line-up we have, but teaching youngsters a point, or getting them better prepared for demands of the first team football.

I agree that league 2 football is a step (or two) to far in creating a link to give our lads some experience, but it make great sense to link with a Conference (or level below) club benefiting both parties.

But all players start somewhere - every single player in the world had zero experience at some point - but the ones that make it through show they are worth sticking with as youngsters

And yet there are managers who would rather play themselves, then to give a chance to inexperienced player. There are well documented cases of talented players not getting chance to play at youth levels in favor of getting results, and finishing place or two higher up the table in meaningless competition

And even best youngsters wont make it if they don't get a chance. There is absolutely no way you will ever convince me that every deserving youngster got a chance, and that some of them wouldn't carve careers for themselves if they did.

It is unbelievable how much things differ between our footballing backgrounds.

[Nookiebear]

Rocky Lekaj?

[TheBoyBeevers]

Rocky Lekaj?

Cheerio Rocky.

Maybe you now know and have finally understood that you're not Cristiano Ronaldo and never will be.

[scram]

Scram mate, some of this current generation playing for U-18's were touted of as potential first team players looong before they joined our academy. I was assured that there is abundance of talent between them, and would be very surprised if at least 5 2'nd year graduates don't get offer of a pro deal with us.

Save it for the jury - i've heard this sort of thing over and over for years now and virutally every club says it - academies are full of players with potential - we all know that and it's no secret

It's not about how many get pro deals - it's about how many come through to make the grade - that is the acid test

It was said by Sean McAuley that for him academy football is not about results, but developing talented players. I can tell you from experience that two don't have to go hand in hand, and looking at line-ups we played may suggest that. "Apparently" it is not about playing strongest line-up we have, but teaching youngsters a point, or getting them better prepared for demands of the first team football.

TBH i don't know why you're saying this - i KNOW and have said time and again that it's about player development and not results - it's the mantra of just about every academy/centre of excellence

But when the results are shocking and there is no player development then there is a pretty bleak picture being painted isn't there?

I agree that league 2 football is a step (or two) to far in creating a link to give our lads some experience, but it make great sense to link with a Conference (or level below) club benefiting both parties.

I really don't agree with this either - it benefits nobody for the majority of the time which is why formal links don't work

If we get a gem and want them to get experience we'd rather send them to a decent league 1 club wouldn't we? Not Frickley or some such

And if we have nothing of note then clubs aren't gonna wanna take them at any sort of level that is beneficial for us and the player

If a player can't get better experience than conference north then it'd strongly suggest that a CCC career is probably not a strong possibility

And even best youngsters wont make it if they don't get a chance. There is absolutely no way you will ever convince me that every deserving youngster got a chance, and that some of them wouldn't carve careers for themselves if they did.

The best youngsters DO get their chance though - that's my point - football is full of players who were given their chance - and for every one of those there are dozens who fell by the wayside because in the vast majority of cases they were not good enough - it happens and it is HUGE part of youth football

Sometimes the decisions about who goes and who stays is marginal - but it's somebody's judgement call - as is everything in football

So you've heard some stuff - great and lets hope it comes to fruition - but i hear this stuff all the time and many, many of those highly rated players don't cut a pro career - it's not that i disbelieve what you've been told but i know what happens and i would rather wait and see it rather than hear about it

But if a player is good enough he will find his level somewhere - as i said lower clubs are full of triallists and loanees from bigger clubs - look how many conference players started at Spurs, Man U, West Ham etc - the attrition rate is enormous

It is unbelievable how much things differ between our footballing backgrounds.

I don't know if you mean between our countries or between ourselves

But if you believe every young player should get his chance regardless of ability then i do disagree

[dfoster]

i used to go to a lot of academy games but lost interest - in my view the standard is generally dire, the players over-coached and the lack of flair and creativity quite frightening

i must say, though, that as a semi-educated observer i am slightly baffled by the notion that we have a good academy, and that macauley is an outstanding coach. i think we have an OK academy, with some reasonable graduates, and that's about it.

beevers is the best i've ever seen play for our academy and i stil think he will make the grade as a good premiership player - eventually. other than him, i have seen no-one that makes me sit up and take notice. as scram says the step-up is huge and finds out all but that those players that are up to the job.

mark smith - not macauley - was the coach that brought through spurr, beevers and mcallister (a really good crop by our standards). he valued results because it breeds confidence and confidence improves players. therefore, i am slightly concerned that our results are so fecking bad.

i'm sorry but if our current crop was as promising as some people say we wouldn't lose every bleedin week. i can believe that there might be one or two good players amongst the squad but five? no, sorry

[TheBoyBeevers]

i'm sorry but if our current crop was as promising as some people say we wouldn't lose every bleedin week. i can believe that there might be one or two good players amongst the squad but five? no, sorry

We're a club with no money and a small squad.

The 5 players mentioned above (Cottingham, Modest, Oliver, Barnett and Liam Palmer) are really cheap squad fillers, and players who have all shown great promise and talent playing at U18 and reserve team level as well, so i'd be very surprised if at least 4 of them don't get 1 year deals, if not all 5. The rest of that crop isn't great though, i'l admit that.

I agree that McAuley isn't the magician that everyone seems to think he is on here- what i would say in his defence is that the funding of the academy up until the last year has been truly pitiful- luckily LS has come in and given him a lot more to work with, and i would expect to see the result from that in the next couple of years.

Losing Mark Smith was a big blow IMO, from first hand experience he was a superb coach and brought through some very useful players for us when we desperately needed them. To lose him to SUFC was an even bigger kick in the nuts. You only have to look at some of the players they've brought through there over the past 3 years to prove that point.....

[malek]

I don't know if you mean between our countries or between ourselves

But if you believe every young player should get his chance regardless of ability then i do disagree

Yes, I thought about differences between our countries.

Over here even top clubs are looking to give chance to youngsters much more regularly then in England. Dunno is it because we have bigger pool of young talent (hardly), is it a reason or consequence for smaller turnout of players going through our national league HNL. However fact is that most clubs over here will rather give chance to their talent breaking through, than to bring in players of doubtful quality. It is seen as easiest way of making money. If you have youngster who aint all that good, but who is pushed, and does reasonably well, score few goals, etc... will have some value on transfer market. Sell couple of those each year, and you are through the season, and it is how most of our clubs survive each season.

And no, there is absolutely no way that every young player should get their chance training, nevermind playing for the first team, but it seems to me that we are very reluctant to give chance to any of them. I know I'm going only by what I heard, and I could be very wrong about current bunch of academy lads (at least 5 in question). i fully concede that perhaps I would have completely different opinion on these if I was to see them play on regular basis.

But fact is that this generation was lauded as the most perspective we got in decades, and if we fail to develop player out of any of those lads, someone should be held responsible...

Scram I don't know did you plan to watch academy play against Man Utd youngsters on Saturday, but if you did, I would be glad to hear your opinion after the game :)

Cheers

[KivoOwl]

Back on topic, i'm not sure any of them will.

The group we have now was supposed to be the golden year, but it's just not happened.

The likes of James Cottingham, Patrick Meehan, Dale Newton - all expected to go far and just haven't done anything.

Really impressed with Jack Barnett but he's being played all over the bloody pitch at the moment and I just don't get it. He needs beefing up true, but playing him at right back?

Oliver looks in the mould of a Jermaine Beckford, not the greatest build but still manages to push defenders about.

Nathan Modest is probably the realistic option though. Really improved over the last year.

[scram]

Scram I don't know did you plan to watch academy play against Man Utd youngsters on Saturday, but if you did, I would be glad to hear your opinion after the game :)

Cheers

I won't be going to the game - i imagine it'll be on MUTV?

I don't subscribe so won't be able to watch

In general i think we in this country are really poor at player development - we focus waaaaay too much on team and passing and less on individualism

It's why we produce relatively few top class players - Arsenal have a different philosophy which can be seen by the type of player they produce - but they have to scour the world for the raw talent to develop

[malek]

Such a shame Scram, as I was really looking forward to hearing what you think about these lads after the game

There was a link for Man Utd Tv online last season, but I really can't find it this time around

[scram]

Such a shame Scram, as I was really looking forward to hearing what you think about these lads after the game

There was a link for Man Utd Tv online last season, but I really can't find it this time around

I will try to watch it - i would love to see our lads play

I know enough Man U "fans" - and maybe one of them will tape it for me if they have the channel?

I'd go and watch them live if i were close enough - or if they played nearer to where i live

[luketheowl]

oohh... some good old serious debate going on here...