laws' legacy

[DJMortimer]

We're in the crapper and we're looking for someone to blame. And who better than a bloke who is no longer here? I still remember the thread on this very site, in the midst of the bad run that got Laws the sack when almost every reply accepted Laws had done a good job up to that point. So why are so many changing their opinions to the polar oppposite within a few weeks? It's frustration and human nature.

For the best part of three years Laws did a good job under difficult circumstances. I suspect if you ask people outside our club they will say much the same thing. It's all very well saying this squad isn't good enough, but apart from a handful of new arrivals, it spent all of last season proving that it was. As far as I'm concerned, the real question is what happened around last October that opened the trap door in our form. Prior to that we had been relentlessly consistent in the middle of the table (in another thread I demonstrated that we had a virtually equal split between wins, draws and defeats for the 78 games prior to the run which ended Laws' tenure). How much blame should be placed with our ex-manager for that is unclear as we are left to speculate what the causes are. Just like anyone else he made mistakes of course, but the revisionism of history that now sees everything ridiculed and rubbished is pathetic and without credibility.

The fascination with Laws at Burnley demonstrates the withchunt in action. Whilst we were all surprised that he ended up in the Premiership the rejoicing in his struggles there are bizarre. And it's not as if he inherited a club doing well and has single-handedly transformed them into relegation fodder. They won just 1 of the 12 league games before he got there and that form has continued.

Edited February 28, 2010 by DJMortimer

[M Royds]

Brian Laws is a misunderstood character!

People misunderstood as to whether he's a football manager.

[dorian gray]

Brian Laws is a misunderstood character!

People misunderstood as to whether he's a football manager.

YES....but it won't go on for much longer...

[Guest wilkotheowl]

When Irvine had those few wins, it was his team. When we lose, it's Laws team.

Genuine question - when does this become Irvine's team? Because other than a few wins against awful teams like Peterborough and Plymouth etc, I reckon we've got worse since Irvine took over. Fully appreciate Alan is working with Law's players, but when do we start looking at Irvine and asking what he has brought to the table.

And before anyone starts, I think Irvine is a very solid appointment.

Alan Irvine cannot be blamed for what he has inherited on the playing side.

The main problem is that these "players" know that they will still get picked week in week out whatever their performance & will still earn a lot more than most of our long suffering supporters as well.

Nearly all of them will all just disappear at the end of the season after we have been relegated & under perform somewhere else. Mercenaries!

Very sad. Even worse is that our youth team is not going to bring through many gems for us to rebuild with going forward a la Forest & Leeds.

The future is very bleak unless a lot changes!!

[scram]

Some incredible bullshit in this thread - but nothing that shouldn't be expected in the extreme myopia of the binary football fan.

Is this "totally incompetent" squad the same that last season people were (equally laughably) lauding as having the best keeper outside the premier and better than a fair few in it? The best young centre back not only in the division but also the country? A £20m defence? The best passer of the ball outside the premier? A £3m+ striker?

Is it so that a manager cannot manage unless/until he is able to change the majority of the players? So he has his team?

Can attitudes not change? Desire? Commitment?

Can coaching and tactical methods not change? New ideas?

Mr Irvine has had room to bring in 3 new players and 2 of them were the same players that were already here previously - does that mean his own scouting and judgement is equally as damning as the guy before him?

Saturday was our worst loss of the season - in scoreline and symbolically - that cannot fall at the feet of the previous manager any more than the 5 recent wins can be hailed as the work of the previous manager.

I am of the same general thoughts as DJM - something seems to have gone badly awry that isn't explained away by the standard of players we have

Edited February 28, 2010 by scram

[Aingarth]

We're in the crapper and we're looking for someone to blame. And who better than a bloke who is no longer here? I still remember the thread on this very site, in the midst of the bad run that got Laws the sack when almost every reply accepted Laws had done a good job up to that point. So why are so many changing their opinions to the polar oppposite within a few weeks? It's frustration and human nature.

For the best part of three years Laws did a good job under difficult circumstances. I suspect if you ask people outside our club they will say much the same thing. It's all very well saying this squad isn't good enough, but apart from a handful of new arrivals, it spent all of last season proving that it was. As far as I'm concerned, the real question is what happened around last October that opened the trap door in our form. Prior to that we had been relentlessly consistent in the middle of the table (in another thread I demonstrated that we had a virtually equal split between wins, draws and defeats for the 78 games prior to the run which ended Laws' tenure). How much blame should be placed with our ex-manager for that is unclear as we are left to speculate what the causes are. Just like anyone else he made mistakes of course, but the revisionism of history that now sees everything ridiculed and rubbished is pathetic and without credibility.

The fascination with Laws at Burnley demonstrates the withchunt in action. Whilst we were all surprised that he ended up in the Premiership the rejoicing in his struggles there are bizarre. And it's not as if he inherited a club doing well and has single-handedly transformed them into relegation fodder. They won just 1 of the 12 league games before he got there and that form has continued.

Good Post, I agree with your analysis.

Does anyone know what happened last October - we can all speculate but the facts would be extremely interesting. Since that point nearly all the players have performed well below their potential, have looked extremely nervous when clearing from defence and almost surprised when presented with a goal scoring opportunity. And the long ball has dominated where it wasn't before - started with Laws in the autumn and is still there now.

[Lincowl]

Preston fans say the same thing about the poor set of players Irvine left for Ferguson. Had a similar run of losses to Laws in his last games for PNE too.

[Guest carlg]

yeah but he is a nice bloke

And he describes Burnley's state as a "Great Situation" ... QED.

The man was/is a used-car salesman. Grins, platitudes, coiffured hair and pinky finger rings.

I like (and more importantly, respect) AI - and what I hear from Toffee pundits makes me like him even more.

[SiJ]

nice bloke though. . .

[alfonso123]

Good Post, I agree with your analysis.

Does anyone know what happened last October - we can all speculate but the facts would be extremely interesting. Since that point nearly all the players have performed well below their potential, have looked extremely nervous when clearing from defence and almost surprised when presented with a goal scoring opportunity. And the long ball has dominated where it wasn't before - started with Laws in the autumn and is still there now.

What happened was the character assassination, and deliberate public humiliation of Richard Wood, by our ex-manager, and our chairman.

THAT's when it all went boobies up.

Nothing will convince me otherwise.

[DJMortimer]

What happened was the character assassination, and deliberate public humiliation of Richard Wood, by our ex-manager, and our chairman.

THAT's when it all went boobies up.

Nothing will convince me otherwise.

And the bast@rd deserved most of it.

How it was interpreted by the rest of the players and how it might have contributed to our recent results is another matter. Wood's transfer listing came on 29th October, two games into the winless spell that saw Laws sacked. After that announcement we took 3 points from the next 10 games until Irvine arrived.

[i used to be sc_owl]

Brian Laws did an ok job with SWFC in my opinion. He had some good times and some bad times, but the one thing that really frustrates me is that he left us in a worse position than when he took over despite having more backing and resources than any recent SWFC manager.

[DJMortimer]

...the one thing that really frustrates me is that he left us in a worse position than when he took over despite having more backing and resources than any recent SWFC manager.

But that is only true since last October/November. So again, we come back to what it was that changed around that time.

[M Royds]

But that is only true since last October/November. So again, we come back to what it was that changed around that time.

Maybe his own signings/team finally gelled. No good looking for a conspiracy theory when there aint one.

[DJMortimer]

Maybe his own signings/team finally gelled. No good looking for a conspiracy theory when there aint one.

So we can discount our form of the previous 78 games and the relentless consistency of our league position for a season and a quarter, largely with the very same players?

And you have the temerity to accuse me of being selective?

[M Royds]

So we can discount our form of the previous 78 games and the relentless consistency of our league position for a season and a quarter, largely with the very same players?

And you have the temerity to accuse me of being selective?

Maybe? but you appear to be looking for something other than a poo poo team manufactured by Brian.

[DJMortimer]

Maybe? but you appear to be looking for something other than a poo poo team manufactured by Brian.

If I found a club in a random country that you knew nothing about and described the same set of circumstances as applied here you'd have no problem accepting that something behind the scenes could have affected the squad's morale and commitment. The statistics are very good evidence for this and we've even got some plausible potential causes put forward. Only your anti-Laws hysteria is preventing you from acknowledging it.

And if my argument is that ridiculous, why do a number of other respected posters agree with it?

[M Royds]

And if my argument is that ridiculous, why do a number of other respected posters agree with it?

Like I said!

[i used to be sc_owl]

But that is only true since last October/November. So again, we come back to what it was that changed around that time.

It's a bit more complicated than that though, DJM.

Laws took over a team that was playing well and with confidence. He guided that team to a very good finish. Over the course of the next few seasons he had some good times such as finishing 12th and also some bad times such as his first Christmas at SWFC and the season where we started with 6 losses.

We were consistent for a small chunk in the middle of his reign at the club, and the stats might have shown a fairly even split of wins, draws and losses but those stats don't tell the whole story. Was there an even split of Wins across each season? Was there a similar level of performance home and away each season? I would suggest there was not. If you remember, a few months ago and as early as October I was on here talking about how we were averaging our worst points to games ratio since BL had been at the club. At the time many on here shot me down with comments like "we're only X games into the season" and "we're only X points off the play offs". If you look at the form of the club during BL's time here, then it pretty much shows a period of decline and a few periods of stability. There would be hardly any periods of improvement if you graphed our form under BL.

I personally think we simply reached a tipping point under BL. We lost too many good players and replaced them with players who were either either worse or just different to a degree that either upset the balance of the team tactically or mentally.

If you look at the team BL fielded in his first game in charge of the club:

Crossley

Simek

Bullen

Bougherra

Hills

Small

Lunt

Folly

Brunt

Tudgay

Burton

Adamson

Coughlan

Whelan

O'Brien

Maclean

And compare that to the team we had in his last match:

Grant

Buxton

Beevers

Spurr

Purse

O'Connor

McAllister

Potter

Johnson

Tudgay

Clarke

O'Donnell

Hinds

Esajas

Varney

Feeney

Soares

Gray.....

Can you honestly say BL improved the squad considering he was apparantly given more money?

[M Royds]

It's a bit more complicated than that though, DJM.

Laws took over a team that was playing well and with confidence. He guided that team to a very good finish. Over the course of the next few seasons he had some good times such as finishing 12th and also some bad times such as his first Christmas at SWFC and the season where we started with 6 losses.

We were consistent for a small chunk in the middle of his reign at the club, and the stats might have shown a fairly even split of wins, draws and losses but those stats don't tell the whole story. Was there an even split of Wins across each season? Was there a similar level of performance home and away each season? I would suggest there was not. If you remember, a few months ago and as early as October I was on here talking about how we were averaging our worst points to games ratio since BL had been at the club. At the time many on here shot me down with comments like "we're only X games into the season" and "we're only X points off the play offs". If you look at the form of the club during BL's time here, then it pretty much shows a period of decline and a few periods of stability. There would be hardly any periods of improvement if you graphed our form under BL.

I personally think we simply reached a tipping point under BL. We lost too many good players and replaced them with players who were either either worse or just different to a degree that either upset the balance of the team tactically or mentally.

If you look at the team BL fielded in his first game in charge of the club:

Crossley

Simek

Bullen

Bougherra

Hills

Small

Lunt

Folly

Brunt

Tudgay

Burton

Adamson

Coughlan

Whelan

O'Brien

Maclean

And compare that to the team we had in his last match:

Grant

Buxton

Beevers

Spurr

Purse

O'Connor

McAllister

Potter

Johnson

Tudgay

Clarke

O'Donnell

Hinds

Esajas

Varney

Feeney

Soares

Gray.....

Can you honestly say BL improved the squad considering he was apparantly given more money?

No!

Its as clear as the nose on your face.