barmyowl1212 Posted February 25, 2010 Share Posted February 25, 2010 (edited) Avram Grant just said Portsmouth are 'more than less' about to go into admin. He is angrymad *according to SSN* Edited February 25, 2010 by barmyowl1212 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
i used to be sc_owl Posted February 25, 2010 Share Posted February 25, 2010 If Portsmouth go into admin and all their debts are written off, then surely they should not be eligible for parachute payments because the club that starts next season would be a different entity to the club that got relegated this season? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest totemowl Posted February 25, 2010 Share Posted February 25, 2010 Matt Slater's blog on the BBC Football site doesn't mention the parachute payment but does say 'The administrator will also be expected to extricate himself via a "company voluntary arrangement" (CVA). As the name suggests, this is a deal between the creditors to accept a new schedule of payments and less money. A CVA requires the backing of 75% of the creditors, based on amounts owed, and usually run for one to five years. This places a huge burden on the business, but a failure to agree one will see further point-penalties from the Football League. Oh, and HMRC almost always votes against them in football cases.' I think that should put paid to my fears, one way or the other, for instance to allow the CVA if invoked to use the parachute payments to pay the creditors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Otto_Man Posted February 25, 2010 Share Posted February 25, 2010 To play in next seasons Championship the new club will require the "Golden Share" from the football league. To obtain this the club must pay all outstanding football related debts in full, all non footballing debts, (HMRC included) must be agreed by way of a CVA. The HMRC will not except anything but full repayment of their debts, therefore, no CVA can be obtained. Now the only way the new Portsmouth FC can obtain the "Golden Share" is via the FL's Exceptional circamstances rule. This will without doubt result in the new club starting next season on -15 points minimum. All good in thoery, but there are easy ways round it depending on who their non-football related debt is owed to. A CVA needs to be agreed by 75% of creditors, if one particular creditor is owed more than 25% of the debt, then that creditor can pretty much manupulate the process to suit their own ends, it's all about brinkmanship. Take the example of what Bates did at Leeds when they went into admin, there were better offers on the table than his, but as he was owed over 25% of the total debt a CVA couldn't be agreed without him and he was hardly going to sell the club to someone else was he? HMRC tried to liquidate the club to force him to pay the debt he refused, the club was put up for sale, once again he vetoed every offer except his own and eventually HMRC gave up and accepted his offer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HarrowbyOwl Posted February 25, 2010 Share Posted February 25, 2010 I doubt Pompey will ever get their hands on the parachute money. When Derby County were relegated in 2007-8 parachute payments of £23m were due to the club in two £11.5m tranches scheduled for payment in August 2008 and August 2009. However, only £1.1m of the 2008 payment was given to the club. The Premier League paid back £10.4m on their behalf to Five Arrows Leasing for a loan taken out in August 2007 to buy Claude Davis, Kenny Miller, Rob Earnshaw, etc. The second payment of £12.5m was paid to the club in August 2009. The situation is different because Derby weren't in administration but I'd guess that the PL will keep their hands on the money to pay off assured creditors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark$ide Posted February 25, 2010 Share Posted February 25, 2010 The major problem portsmouth have is actually finding an administrator............. If i'm correct an administrator becomes personally liable for the clubs debts. which is why i'm sure i read one wanted £1million up front by the club............. i can honestly see HMRC going for broke on this one. why on earth should footy clubs not pay NI,PAYE(income tax) and vat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest clumber58 Posted February 25, 2010 Share Posted February 25, 2010 I read an article in one of the broadsheets the other day that said HMRC had had enough of football clubs not paying their taxes. That's why HMRC have hit Portsmouth with a winding up order. I'm no expert, but i understand that going into Administration is a defence against a winding up order, but only if the company is viable. I don't think Portsmouth FC is viable. They've already been in Administration once (in 1998), that's why I think HMRC will go for the "nuclear option" to make sure they can't keep going bust owing £ millions in unpaid tax. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davidioso Posted February 25, 2010 Share Posted February 25, 2010 I wonder if Storrie still gets his million+ a year salary for his sterling leadership in this crisis. How does a tool like this even warrant one hundreth of that amount? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Handball_!! Posted February 25, 2010 Share Posted February 25, 2010 Feel sorry for their fans I guess. As each season passes, the Premier League starts to look more and more like a poisened chalice - For at least 2 seasons now, possibly longer I've yearned less and less for a return to the PL and all the shananigans that it involves. I truly despise all that it's started to stand for, especially off the pitch. This 9 and 15 point deduction for not taking responsibility for your finances and the implications on other businesses and law abiding tax payers is no longer sufficient, I pay my tax bill every bloody month, don't have a choice in the matter. Personally I think they should be booted out of the league and have to start again in the conference, any team that goes into admin, not just Portsmouth. Look at Palace, they've wiped their debts out and will still finish above us this season, it stinks. We've taken responsibility for our financial mismangement for 10 years now and for what - absolutely nothing, in fact we are at a disadvantage for doing so. Makes me quite angry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coolhandluke Posted February 25, 2010 Share Posted February 25, 2010 Feel sorry for their fans I guess. As each season passes, the Premier League starts to look more and more like a poisened chalice - For at least 2 seasons now, possibly longer I've yearned less and less for a return to the PL and all the shananigans that it involves. I truly despise all that it's started to stand for, especially off the pitch. This 9 and 15 point deduction for not taking responsibility for your finances and the implications on other businesses and law abiding tax payers is no longer sufficient, I pay my tax bill every bloody month, don't have a choice in the matter. Personally I think they should be booted out of the league and have to start again in the conference, any team that goes into admin, not just Portsmouth. Look at Palace, they've wiped their debts out and will still finish above us this season, it stinks. We've taken responsibility for our financial mismangement for 10 years now and for what - absolutely nothing, in fact we are at a disadvantage for doing so. Makes me quite angry. I agree with that . Take your 10 points and get out of the mess you are currently in. If you cant beat em ......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Walkley_Owl Posted February 25, 2010 Share Posted February 25, 2010 **** off piggyflap Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coolhandluke Posted February 25, 2010 Share Posted February 25, 2010 **** off piggyflap Charming ..... LS School of message board etiquette passed i believe . :laugh: Seriously though .... what part of my post dont you agree with ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBoyBeevers Posted February 25, 2010 Share Posted February 25, 2010 CHL- i don't think you're a tail because you're a Blade. I think you're a tail because you're clearly a spineless wang who is happy to mouth off to Blades on your own forums about us, but doesn't dare say it to our (internet) faces. Now flip off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coolhandluke Posted February 25, 2010 Share Posted February 25, 2010 CHL- i don't think you're a tail because you're a Blade. I think you're a tail because you're clearly a spineless wang who is happy to mouth off to Blades on your own forums about us, but doesn't dare say it to our (internet) faces. Now flip off. Sweetheart ..... hush . :laugh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MotherGoose Posted February 25, 2010 Share Posted February 25, 2010 I guess that the CVA would include provisions for settling those debts over a longer term. Uncharted territory this, but I guess that would be what agreed. Guaranteed money over 2/3 years = guaranteed paycheck over 2/3 years. Now for the other £40M..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Last_Great_Hope Posted February 25, 2010 Share Posted February 25, 2010 If Portsmouth go into admin and all their debts are written off, then surely they should not be eligible for parachute payments because the club that starts next season would be a different entity to the club that got relegated this season? It wouldn't be - it would still be the same company as before, albeit run by an Administrator. If a CVA is then agreed in conjunction with a new buyer, the new buyer would create a new company (Portsmouth Holdings 2010 for example) who then purchase the club for X amount, with X amount being the amount needed to fund the CVA. Once the purchase is complete they would be in effect a new company, but when someone buys a Business, they buy everything lock stock and barrell - all the Land it owns, all the Employee contracts, the name of the business, including it's Rights to Future income ie, Premier Parachute Payments etc. It is not a new entity. They will still be called Portsmouth FC, have the same fans, playing in the same stadium with the same players (well, those not sold to pay debts) etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waddleisgod Posted February 26, 2010 Share Posted February 26, 2010 the two points i want confirming are 1. will they get their parachute payment next year? they shouldn't IMO 2. i thought there was a rule that if you are relegated and would have been even without the points deduction, then a further points reducted is instated for the next season, not sure if we are talking 10 or 15 points Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brownlad Posted February 26, 2010 Share Posted February 26, 2010 the two points i want confirming are 1. will they get their parachute payment next year? they shouldn't IMO why not though? every single relegated club is entitled to parachute payments - that's how the parachute payments system works. The only thing I take issue with, is where that money goes. As they are entered into administration, I would expect that money to be made available to creditors. 2. i thought there was a rule that if you are relegated and would have been even without the points deduction, then a further points reducted is instated for the next season, not sure if we are talking 10 or 15 points I think you are talking exceptional circumstances. I honestly don't know enough about it, but believe it something to do with football debts etc rather than business debts. I know Luton got absolutely arse raped, I can't remember why though. Same with Leeds - they had a further points deduction (I think? I'm not certain) because they hadn't settled their football debts in time to receive their 'golden share' which entitled them to play in the football league. I think because they were granted that 'golden share' under exceptional circumstances, they then faced a further points deduction. Someone else will be able to explain better than me though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nebneeb Posted February 26, 2010 Share Posted February 26, 2010 the two points i want confirming are 1. will they get their parachute payment next year? they shouldn't IMO 2. i thought there was a rule that if you are relegated and would have been even without the points deduction, then a further points reducted is instated for the next season, not sure if we are talking 10 or 15 points 1. They will get them, but if they are still in admin then it will all be used to pay creditors (which is right IMO as they shouldn't be made bankrupt due to the club) so it won't give the footballing side any real advantage. The only way the club will be able to use the money is if they find a way out of admin before they receive parachute payments.. i.e. a buyer comes up with a deal that 75% of the creditors are happy with (unlikely given the creditors % split and their stance on agreeing a deal). 2. That is only the case after a specific date that we have yet to reach. Southampton had passed that date last year which is why the rule applied to them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waddleisgod Posted February 26, 2010 Share Posted February 26, 2010 (edited) . Edited February 26, 2010 by waddleisgod Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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