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Will we ever be back?


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I'm starting to think perhaps not.

During the 70's it seemed most Wednesdayites were sure of a return to the glory days sooner or later - and in the end it happened., but can we really see Wednesday getting out the rut we're in now?

It took us 14 years to get back to the top flight from relegation in 1970 and we're into our 11th year since our last relegation.

Unfortunately, unlike back then, turning up in our masses just won't make a difference, you need BIG money that fans can't provide to be able to compete, and being £28m in debt means we are waaaaaay down the list of desirable investment propositions - therefore we're stuck in a rut.

I'm 24 and I can barely remember the Premier League days, anyone my age and younger will only have seen poo at Hillsborough, and but for the dads bringing their young un's up as Owls, the kids of today aren't interested anymore. At least if you were there in the 70's you ended up with the 80's and 90's, whereas what have we got to look forwarfd to?

The attendance yesterday was pitiful. 21k, with 2k from Ipswich and 14k ST holders means that only 5k Wednesdayites paid to watch yesterday - with a Kids for a Quid offer on. I fear that the anger, passion and a downright feeling of injustice of the last few years is being replaced by sheer apathy - people have just come to accept that we are where we are, and there's no way out. I would be amazed if we sold anywhere near 500 new ST's for next season, and i'd be more amazed if less than 500 existing ST holders renewed (obviously meaning we won't sell anywhere near this seasons final tally - never mind what LS wants for next season - 17k)

I really fear that the patience of the fans over this last decade will have been for nothing, the belief that the good times would return is waning and fast.

Sorry to sound so depressing, but how the fudge do we get out of this mess?

That's part of the problem, people can't pay on the turnstyles most of the time and even on the matches they can there's only one turnstyle selling largely restricted views. People just don't want to queue up for an hour to pay for tickets at the superstore or even just to collect them.

Another problem is that football is no longer a cheap spectator sport, brought about not least by Jimmy Hill and his campaign for professional wages and the fact that most stadiums are now all seater. This means that ground capacities are severly reduced therefore admission prices have to increase to meet professional wages and running costs. Sooner or later it has all got to come to a head and maybe it's already started. Football just can't carry on the way it has been doing.

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WE may not get back...but the rules have changed...football today is a sham, trophies bougt by clubs who have beggared their history for finance

POrtsmouth, Leeds who tried to take the easy way to glory....into admin ..start again, wipe the slate and chalk gain

WEdnesday have not done that...all Trophies earned ..not bought ..

Hillsborough reeks of football, sniff the fvckin' bricks of the place...cloth caps, tobacco and pies..its football

fans who have trotted there through sheer Darwinian evolution....not because theyve signed Ruud van nisstlebollox..

Hold your fvckin' heads up..put yer fvckin' scarves on and revel in what Wednesday are...a bastion of English footballl..WE are doing it the hard way , cos that is what Sheffield is..PLastic pots mean **** all...you can get the basta*ds on the market...

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I don't think im sherlock at all.

Its fairly obvious why were not moving forward.

Revenue is low, Leeds have at least double ours.

What are they doing we aren't?

Leeds is a one club city...hence why they can still get over 20k with over-priced tickets. Wednesday's crowds would plummet if ticket prices were increased. There are fans who would go no matter what, but Leeds as such will have many more of these types, due to the size of their fanbase.

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Guest barrowowl

WE may not get back...but the rules have changed...football today is a sham, trophies bougt by clubs who have beggared their history for finance

POrtsmouth, Leeds who tried to take the easy way to glory....into admin ..start again, wipe the slate and chalk gain

WEdnesday have not done that...all Trophies earned ..not bought ..

Hillsborough reeks of football, sniff the fvckin' bricks of the place...cloth caps, tobacco and pies..its football

fans who have trotted there through sheer Darwinian evolution....not because theyve signed Ruud van nisstlebollox..

Hold your fvckin' heads up..put yer fvckin' scarves on and revel in what Wednesday are...a bastion of English footballl..WE are doing it the hard way , cos that is what Sheffield is..PLastic pots mean **** all...you can get the basta*ds on the market...

Brilliant!

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Leeds is a one club city...hence why they can still get over 20k with over-priced tickets. Wednesday's crowds would plummet if ticket prices were increased. There are fans who would go no matter what, but Leeds as such will have many more of these types, due to the size of their fanbase.

Leeds are as one city football club but 20,000 support rugby league over football. Leeds fan base is and has always been greater than ours since the 70's anyway. I saw a transit van yesterday with Essex Whites painted on it full with fans travelling 200 miles each way for a leauge 1 match.

Some of our fans think Manchester is too far.

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Lets face it though.

We only pay £500k interest on £27m+ debt.

Its not like its a huge drain on resources at the moment.

What I think is most worrying is the turnover gap between SWFC and LUFC. They are growing money whilst we can't find a penny. Go on their website, look at their commercial activities. Ours are improving but its taking a long time. Maybe it's time to adapt the 'Bates model'.

'Bates Model' would for us be;

Closing Grandstand.

Raising advertising prices.

Raising ST Prices or changing the ground model so prices are much more diverse.

Raising matchday prices

Looking at more business oppertunities. (We need the North Stand phase of the ground development built).

Don't know about Capt Birdseye's way of doing business, but I know that as a club we seem to miss a trick when it comes to the commercial side. Example - yesterday - went to the mobile hot drink stand just as half time started - only to be told they had run out of hot water and could not leave it to get some. Just about sums up how we operate.

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Why can't our chairman put some money into the club? Even if it's a loan with a good rate of interest attached to it.

The players we've got haven't got what it'll take to keep us up, therefore we need loan signings to have any real chance.

My thoughts are that he won't put any money in because he doesn't believe he'll get it back - investment won't be happening, therefore leaving administration as the only other choice to start the club over again, in which case he'd lose what was put in.

Because even if he did loan money it would still be spending money we haven't got.

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Leeds are as one city football club but 20,000 support rugby league over football. Leeds fan base is and has always been greater than ours since the 70's anyway. I saw a transit van yesterday with Essex Whites painted on it full with fans travelling 200 miles each way for a leauge 1 match.

Some of our fans think Manchester is too far.

who? :ohmy:

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Guest LS29_Owl

Don't know why we are talking about Leeds but to compare them tvvats to us a joke.

They are a one club city. The have huge towns and cities like Wakefield and Harrogate nearby that don't even have football teams. The nearest 2 are Bradford and Huddersfield and many of their residents now support Leeds owing to their towns never tasting any sort of success for generations. Wednesday have United on their doorsteps and then Barnsley, Rotherham, Doncaster and Chesterfield within spitting distance.

And why we would ever want Bates near our club is beyond me...

1 - he milks the Leeds fans for every penny they have got.

2 - he prints in the matchday programme the name and address of a director who 'dared' to disagree with him and asked fans to pay said director a visit.

3 - he prevents BBC Leeds from broadcasting games on the radio so Leeds fans have to tune in to Yorkshire Radio, the station he owns.

4 - Bates took them into administration and was somehow allowed to buy back the club for LESS money than a rival consortium was offering!!! Resulting in many businesses losing thousands and thousands of pounds.

Strafford might not be every one's cup of tea but at least he is genuine, he is working his knackers off and has the very best interests of the club and fans at heart.

Wednesday ooze class. Leeds don't know the meaning of the word.

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WE may not get back...but the rules have changed...football today is a sham, trophies bougt by clubs who have beggared their history for finance

POrtsmouth, Leeds who tried to take the easy way to glory....into admin ..start again, wipe the slate and chalk gain

WEdnesday have not done that...all Trophies earned ..not bought ..

Hillsborough reeks of football, sniff the fvckin' bricks of the place...cloth caps, tobacco and pies..its football

fans who have trotted there through sheer Darwinian evolution....not because theyve signed Ruud van nisstlebollox..

Hold your fvckin' heads up..put yer fvckin' scarves on and revel in what Wednesday are...a bastion of English footballl..WE are doing it the hard way , cos that is what Sheffield is..PLastic pots mean **** all...you can get the basta*ds on the market...

do you really want to do it the hard wAy????

that's for losers, we need the premiership nothing else counts unless you are happy With being a big version of Chesterfield fc

Why should owls have to accept our lot in life.? The premiership and nothing less

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do you really want to do it the hard wAy????

Personally, yep - there'll be a lot more pride in that than trying to get success via admin or megabucks from some random oligarch.

that's for losers, we need the premiership nothing else counts unless you are happy With being a big version of Chesterfield fc

What's wrong with being a big version of Chesterfield (apart from Uncle Dave?). I'd rather be a Spireite than a MK Dons (spit), Portsmouth or Man Utd fan anyday...

Why should owls have to accept our lot in life.? The premiership and nothing less

Because we had idiotic management and direction for a few years in the mid-late 90s and we're still trying to recover from that. We don't 'deserve' Premiership football anymore than I 'deserve' a Porsche. It'd be lovely but I don't understand the concept of having an inherent right to it...

What we do deserve is our players running their testicles off every game, to the best of their abilities. That's why I'm pissed off with yesterday's shambles, because it sounded as if they couldn't be bothered for the most part.

As for LS, he's doing a good job in the circumstances, although I think the guilt-trip approach to season-tickets and dissent is probably counter-productive...

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Personally, yep - there'll be a lot more pride in that than trying to get success via admin or megabucks from some random oligarch

nice words but the words of someone who is happy to lose. I want Wednesday to be winners

What's wrong with being a big version of Chesterfield (apart from Uncle Dave?). I'd rather be a Spireite than a MK Dons (spit), Portsmouth or Man Utd fan anyday...

Chesterfield is my 2nd club but they are a small community club is that really your ambition for swfc

Because we had idiotic management and direction for a few years in the mid-late 90s and we're still trying to recover from that. We don't 'deserve' Premiership football anymore than I 'deserve' a Porsche. It'd be lovely but I don't understand the concept of having an inherent right to it...

What we do deserve is our players running their testicles off every game, to the best of their abilities. That's why I'm pissed off with yesterday's shambles, because it sounded as if they couldn't be bothered for the most part.

As for LS, he's doing a good job in the circumstances, although I think the guilt-trip approach to season-tickets and dissent is probably counter-productive...

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I'm starting to think perhaps not.

During the 70's it seemed most Wednesdayites were sure of a return to the glory days sooner or later - and in the end it happened., but can we really see Wednesday getting out the rut we're in now?

It took us 14 years to get back to the top flight from relegation in 1970 and we're into our 11th year since our last relegation.

Unfortunately, unlike back then, turning up in our masses just won't make a difference, you need BIG money that fans can't provide to be able to compete, and being £28m in debt means we are waaaaaay down the list of desirable investment propositions - therefore we're stuck in a rut.

I'm 24 and I can barely remember the Premier League days, anyone my age and younger will only have seen poo at Hillsborough, and but for the dads bringing their young un's up as Owls, the kids of today aren't interested anymore. At least if you were there in the 70's you ended up with the 80's and 90's, whereas what have we got to look forwarfd to?

The attendance yesterday was pitiful. 21k, with 2k from Ipswich and 14k ST holders means that only 5k Wednesdayites paid to watch yesterday - with a Kids for a Quid offer on. I fear that the anger, passion and a downright feeling of injustice of the last few years is being replaced by sheer apathy - people have just come to accept that we are where we are, and there's no way out. I would be amazed if we sold anywhere near 500 new ST's for next season, and i'd be more amazed if less than 500 existing ST holders renewed (obviously meaning we won't sell anywhere near this seasons final tally - never mind what LS wants for next season - 17k)

I really fear that the patience of the fans over this last decade will have been for nothing, the belief that the good times would return is waning and fast.

Sorry to sound so depressing, but how the fudge do we get out of this mess?

Back to where though?

It could be argued that we are where we should be.

Wednesday have spent 22 seasons of the 41 I've lived through playing outside of the top league in English football.

I just don't buy this whole 'we belong in the top flight' nonsense.

We are a team that has always yo-yo'd between the top two leagues.

For me the problem is that the successes of the mid 80's and early 90's have created an artificially high level of expectation.

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WE may not get back...but the rules have changed...football today is a sham, trophies bougt by clubs who have beggared their history for finance

POrtsmouth, Leeds who tried to take the easy way to glory....into admin ..start again, wipe the slate and chalk gain

WEdnesday have not done that...all Trophies earned ..not bought ..

Hillsborough reeks of football, sniff the fvckin' bricks of the place...cloth caps, tobacco and pies..its football

fans who have trotted there through sheer Darwinian evolution....not because theyve signed Ruud van nisstlebollox..

Hold your fvckin' heads up..put yer fvckin' scarves on and revel in what Wednesday are...a bastion of English footballl..WE are doing it the hard way , cos that is what Sheffield is..PLastic pots mean **** all...you can get the basta*ds on the market...

^^^^^^^^^^

Amen

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Back to where though?

It could be argued that we are where we should be.

Wednesday have spent 22 seasons of the 41 I've lived through playing outside of the top league in English football.

I just don't buy this whole 'we belong in the top flight' nonsense.

We are a team that has always yo-yo'd between the top two leagues.

For me the problem is that the successes of the mid 80's and early 90's have created an artificially high level of expectation.

You make some interesting points. However, one could argue that football is just crazy at the minute with many clubs either above or below their "natural" position. I think we could be judged as one of the 20 biggest clubs in the country if you go by certain criteria, but with people willing to pump hundreds of millions into clubs just to try to crack the top-six in the Premiership we will need a lot of money to even get close.

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You make some interesting points. However, one could argue that football is just crazy at the minute with many clubs either above or below their "natural" position. I think we could be judged as one of the 20 biggest clubs in the country if you go by certain criteria, but with people willing to pump hundreds of millions into clubs just to try to crack the top-six in the Premiership we will need a lot of money to even get close.

Agreed. The 'natural' order of things has been skewed massively by the effects of TV money and more recently the influx of the super-rich owners.

And I can't help but think that a return to the Premier League - as it currently stands - would kill us.

Give me a competitive Championship side, with players that put a shift in week after week, over paying way over the odds for average Premier League players just to stand a chance of surviving a season.

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