i used to be sc_owl Posted January 19, 2010 Share Posted January 19, 2010 I would imagine not! Serious danger of data overload - and I would imagine some pro footballers are not so clever! I would imagine selected data would be used - highlighting both the positives and the negatives. Just wondering because if they are it could result in players taking less risks to improve their pass percentage rates or simply running more than they have to, to make it look like they are working harder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swissowl Posted January 19, 2010 Share Posted January 19, 2010 Just wondering because if they are it could result in players taking less risks to improve their pass percentage rates or simply running more than they have to, to make it look like they are working harder. Its a little more complicated than that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
i used to be sc_owl Posted January 19, 2010 Share Posted January 19, 2010 Its a little more complicated than that Not from what I have heard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swissowl Posted January 19, 2010 Share Posted January 19, 2010 the system I saw was - and too be honest there is no way a company can charge thousands for such software. Maybe ours is running on a spectrum 64 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plonk Posted January 19, 2010 Share Posted January 19, 2010 Think the most important quote on this, came from one of the players (cant remember which one that AI spends all his time on the training ground with the players. Thats where coaches work, not sat in front of a computer screen. And according to Beevers and Spurr at Hirstys bar the players not only get the stats but get beat up with them if they arent good. It sounded like a sales meeting with people getting in the poo poo for not "hitting targets". Like all tools, they are good in the right hands and dangerous in the wrong ones! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
i used to be sc_owl Posted January 19, 2010 Share Posted January 19, 2010 the system I saw was - and too be honest there is no way a company can charge thousands for such software. Maybe ours is running on a spectrum 64 I've heard stories from those working with athletes who are being assessed with this type of software, and pro-zone specifically was mentioned, increasing their pass completion rates, distance run etc but at the same time having their overall play suffer. It's easy to see how this could happen. If players are being assessed on pass completion rates for example, then it will probably be in the back of their mind - will they continue to attempt defence splitting passes or simply play the easy ball? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sonny Posted January 19, 2010 Share Posted January 19, 2010 (edited) Just wondering because if they are it could result in players taking less risks to improve their pass percentage rates or simply running more than they have to, to make it look like they are working harder. In that case the system could highlight a lack of ambition in the passing or a tendancy to go for the easy option. Weather it's used and interpreted correctly or even useful at all is one thing, but the potential goes way beyond a few simple percentages across such a limited range. The players will be shown some graphics and figures but on a more ad hoc player specific basis rather than as a team, and some players won't be bothered where as some will be keen to get involved. Edited January 19, 2010 by Sonny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
i used to be sc_owl Posted January 19, 2010 Share Posted January 19, 2010 Paralysis by analysis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRUCE LEE Posted January 19, 2010 Share Posted January 19, 2010 My issue was the expense of something that is a mere luxury to an experienced manager at this level.... If you aint got good enough players on the pitch to analyse, whats the point flippinghaving it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scram Posted January 19, 2010 Share Posted January 19, 2010 My issue was the expense of something that is a mere luxury to an experienced manager at this level.... If you aint got good enough players on the pitch to analyse, whats the point flippinghaving it. ^^^^ Plus i think some people waaaay overestimate what it can tangibly do Each to their own Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waddleisgod Posted January 19, 2010 Share Posted January 19, 2010 i like the idea of using prozone for use in things like positional sense and making clever runs, rather than who covered the most grass who's heart was pumping the most etc etc i think that can be very misleading info Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian Posted January 19, 2010 Share Posted January 19, 2010 Thing is, a lot of people on here just don't 'get' prozone. It's not just a computer game - and it's not the be-all-and-end-all for any coach and manager. A huge amount of focus was put on ProZone under Brian Laws by a lot of users Brian Laws, but do you honestly think that it replaced traditional coaching methods? ProZone is - and always has been - about supplimental objective statistical analysis and NOT about replacing any methods of coaching. That's nearer the truth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian Posted January 19, 2010 Share Posted January 19, 2010 Think the most important quote on this, came from one of the players (cant remember which one that AI spends all his time on the training ground with the players. Thats where coaches work, not sat in front of a computer screen. And according to Beevers and Spurr at Hirstys bar the players not only get the stats but get beat up with them if they arent good. It sounded like a sales meeting with people getting in the poo poo for not "hitting targets". Like all tools, they are good in the right hands and dangerous in the wrong ones!I was at the same meeting and you are spot on plonk......so we had the ridicluous situation of if we were 3-0 up and cruising, players would still be running up and down, wasting energy so that there stats would be up, rather than saving energy for the next game Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brownlad Posted January 19, 2010 Share Posted January 19, 2010 I am happy to admit I really don't 'get' prozone. Can someone explain, in thick f*ck terms, what's useful about it? Only out of interest loik. I'm pretty indifferent to it normally. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeeJayOne Posted January 19, 2010 Share Posted January 19, 2010 I am happy to admit I really don't 'get' prozone. Can someone explain, in thick f*ck terms, what's useful about it? Only out of interest loik. I'm pretty indifferent to it normally. I'm looking to get someone from the TG to blog about it and explain it all in the coming weeks. SHEFFIELD SHOP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plonk Posted January 19, 2010 Share Posted January 19, 2010 From what TS and MB were saying it basically gives you stats on every players performance during a game, so the manager gets a printout saying TS ran this far,made x number of passes y number of headers etc. Tommy was saying they could also compare stats with other players, so TS could look at his stats against say Phil Neville and know how they compare. We use stats all the time in my business to look at peoples performance, but they are not the be all and end all. The guide to a good manager is knowing what your staff are doing and why, and then knowing how to improve or reward.. Stats cant do that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
latemodelchild Posted January 19, 2010 Share Posted January 19, 2010 I am happy to admit I really don't 'get' prozone. Can someone explain, in thick f*ck terms, what's useful about it? Only out of interest loik. I'm pretty indifferent to it normally. Its like this fing right, and its got lasers or summat or cameras and that and it watches the players and that and it tells the manager who's good and who's crap. I fink its summat to do wi microchips or robots and that. Anyway, its reyt gud like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brownlad Posted January 19, 2010 Share Posted January 19, 2010 Its like this fing right, and its got lasers or summat or cameras and that and it watches the players and that and it tells the manager who's good and who's crap. I fink its summat to do wi microchips or robots and that. Anyway, its reyt gud like. R8 gud cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brownlad Posted January 19, 2010 Share Posted January 19, 2010 From what TS and MB were saying it basically gives you stats on every players performance during a game, so the manager gets a printout saying TS ran this far,made x number of passes y number of headers etc. Tommy was saying they could also compare stats with other players, so TS could look at his stats against say Phil Neville and know how they compare. We use stats all the time in my business to look at peoples performance, but they are not the be all and end all. The guide to a good manager is knowing what your staff are doing and why, and then knowing how to improve or reward.. Stats cant do that. I think this is why I don't really 'get it' I'm not questioning that it must pose some benefits - otherwise the creators have pulled off a right scam! - but I just struggle to see how beneficial it can be? I mean... similar software may be effective for businesses as you are unable to monitor all staff all the time and may need statistical information to flag up areas of weakness, but for monitoring a situation where said staff are under intense, focused scrutiny anyway? I just can't really get my head round that. Maybe its because I don't understand it or maybe because I have absolutely rock bottom knowledge of managing / coaching, but I just think surely a manager can see a player? Can see how much he runs, how often he shoots and how successful his passing is? If a player always goes tearing down the wing but fails to cross the ball, you don't need a computer to tell you that he needs to work on his crossing? I know that's a very simplistic view and its probably far more complex, but I do wonder if the costs involved are justified by the positive benefits it brings? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeeJayOne Posted January 19, 2010 Share Posted January 19, 2010 I think this is why I don't really 'get it' I'm not questioning that it must pose some benefits - otherwise the creators have pulled off a right scam! - but I just struggle to see how beneficial it can be? I mean... similar software may be effective for businesses as you are unable to monitor all staff all the time and may need statistical information to flag up areas of weakness, but for monitoring a situation where said staff are under intense, focused scrutiny anyway? I just can't really get my head round that. Maybe its because I don't understand it or maybe because I have absolutely rock bottom knowledge of managing / coaching, but I just think surely a manager can see a player? Can see how much he runs, how often he shoots and how successful his passing is? If a player always goes tearing down the wing but fails to cross the ball, you don't need a computer to tell you that he needs to work on his crossing? I know that's a very simplistic view and its probably far more complex, but I do wonder if the costs involved are justified by the positive benefits it brings? Wow - it's becoming quite a 'circular' discussion - as was posted earlier: Thing is, a lot of people on here just don't 'get' prozone. It's not just a computer game - and it's not the be-all-and-end-all for any coach and manager. A huge amount of focus was put on ProZone under Brian Laws by a lot of users, but do you honestly think that it replaced traditional coaching methods? ProZone is - and always has been - about supplimental objective statistical analysis and NOT about replacing any methods of coaching. & As a prfessional coach, I know technology helps. However it simply provides you with information. What you choose to do with that information and apply it to players and the team, is down to you and ultimately the players and what they take on board and decide to act. I think the prozone publicity to show that Wednesday are coming up to speed with 21st century football and not that it would cure our problems! SHEFFIELD SHOP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now