Olibeak Posted July 20, 2017 Share Posted July 20, 2017 Just asking, is the club serious about developing and progressing our U23s? Winners of Northern and National Pro Development League 2 titles, yet only three (understandably, two CBs) on current first-team Portugal tour. What’s happened to U23s captain Jack Stobbs, Sean Clare, George Hirst (contract issues?) and Jack Lee (injury?), who all got game time on last year’s tour, plus Matt Penney – none of them training with the first team pre-season? Have they all gone backwards (check this video of Clare that’s on Too-witter: http://bit.ly/2uG82FU), or are they wasting time waiting for opportunities they’ll never be given in S6? And, in case you ask, I saw quite a lot of U23s games last season, and was at Alfreton (U23s who came on all looked good) and Mansfield (common moan from fans near me was lack of pace and drive in midfield – see Clare video? − and the excellent Reach was moved to fish-out-of-water territory at leftback while Penney just warmed up and watched). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kanye West Posted July 20, 2017 Share Posted July 20, 2017 The club aren't going to take all the players from the first team as well as loads from the U23's, what would be the point? You can't play everyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ellis Rimmer Posted July 20, 2017 Share Posted July 20, 2017 Winning the second tier of the youth league doesn't mean they have the right to be in therror first team squad. We saw how far behind Chelsea they were and most of those Chelsea players wouldn't benefit our first team Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olibeak Posted July 20, 2017 Author Share Posted July 20, 2017 Not suggesting in any way that they are all ready to go into the first team, but they need to be around and training with the first team squad if they are to progress. The core players from the U23s (not the youth/U18s team) need to work with players they look up to and can learn from, not "youngers" from the U18s who look up to and learn from them, and are not yet at their level. That's implicit in the title Development Squad. It's how apprenticeships used to work. The alternative is to make sure they get out on loan asap to get first team experience -- as Clare has done at Bury and Accrington, and Penney did to some extent at Bradford. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cookeh Posted July 20, 2017 Share Posted July 20, 2017 They were heavily involved in the first two friendlies and so it seems they're largely being involved with the first team in preseason, just not going to portugal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pulsar Posted July 20, 2017 Share Posted July 20, 2017 Hello George. I personally would have liked for you to be taken to Portugal to integrate you with the 1st team squad. Are the rumours about a loan out to somewhere like Chesterfield true? And how do you feel about this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest oz_owl Posted July 20, 2017 Share Posted July 20, 2017 I think the club are being prudent about taking to Portugal youth players who may need to be involved with the first team early in the season if certain transfer dealings don't pan out. Suggesting that this implies a lack of trust (or investment) in their peers is spurious at best. There has clearly been a renewed focus on youth development in general, and I firmly believe the club see this as a key part of their long term strategy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
malek Posted July 20, 2017 Share Posted July 20, 2017 25 minutes ago, oz_owl said: I think the club are being prudent about taking to Portugal youth players who may need to be involved with the first team early in the season if certain transfer dealings don't pan out. Suggesting that this implies a lack of trust (or investment) in their peers is spurious at best. There has clearly been a renewed focus on youth development in general, and I firmly believe the club see this as a key part of their long term strategy. Interesting as I see it as polar opposite... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olibeak Posted July 20, 2017 Author Share Posted July 20, 2017 George who? Re-set your satnav, Pulsar. Think you've turned onto the wrong thread -- or misinterpreted the intention of this one. Anyone who's done an apprenticeship (do they still exist?) will know the benefit of working with and learning from older and more experienced people on a regular basis. It's an essential part of any long-term strategy. Unfortunately, the low level of U23s involvement in first-team training applies to Middlewood, not just Albufeira. If one of these promising young uns should ever need to be called up into the first team (injuries, suspensions, whatever), it's important that they know -- and are known and trusted by -- their team mates. That would be built up on the training ground and by mixing together at Middlewood. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frastheowl Posted July 20, 2017 Share Posted July 20, 2017 The fact, none of these players are going to get a look in. It's just not in the club's DNA at the minute. The only ones taken to Portugal, play in positions where we have a lack of first team players. Any players the club value, should be going out on loan as soon as pre season is finished. As much as we'd all like a pathway to bring through the youngsters, it just isn't there, and isn't going to be for years. Far too much expectation and pressure for the first team to succeed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Batman Posted July 20, 2017 Share Posted July 20, 2017 The Portugal trip is a really short one, designed to get the First Team Squad fit and maybe a bit of team bonding, being away together. Means nothing in terms of our long term youth policy. Zero. I think the youngsters do train with the seniors. Seen a fair few training pics on the OS over the years, where they're involved. We all hope the U23s and below come good, and it's frustrating that we don't see a bit more involvement from them in the match day squad; but when promotion is at stake, and CC's probably on borrowed time to achieve it, he's forced to think short term. That's just the way it is right now. Best thing would be to get those on the verge of stepping up, out on loan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest RedDragonOwl Posted July 20, 2017 Share Posted July 20, 2017 You don't win anything with kids. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ethel The Tree Posted July 20, 2017 Share Posted July 20, 2017 16 minutes ago, frastheowl said: The fact, none of these players are going to get a look in. It's just not in the club's DNA at the minute. The only ones taken to Portugal, play in positions where we have a lack of first team players. Any players the club value, should be going out on loan as soon as pre season is finished. As much as we'd all like a pathway to bring through the youngsters, it just isn't there, and isn't going to be for years. Far too much expectation and pressure for the first team to succeed. This is how I see it too Fully expect O'Grady and Thorniley to start tonight, perhaps Murphy brought on as a sub - our young keepers playing a half each Meanwhile back at home, our U23s have their own pre-season schedule - Worksop, followed by two 'private' games against PL2 (Div.1) sides - Derby & Leicester - then another away at L**ds on Saturday By early August the staff will know where each player is technically 'at' Some might go out on loan, others might remain on the fringes of the 1st team squad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike312 Posted July 20, 2017 Share Posted July 20, 2017 I remember an interview with Lloyd Isgrove who was asked how Southampton were producing so many good young players and he said that they trained with the first team from a young age, making them physically stronger and better players for learning off their more experienced players. I thought at the time it was a good idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gurujuan Posted July 20, 2017 Share Posted July 20, 2017 41 minutes ago, mike312 said: I remember an interview with Lloyd Isgrove who was asked how Southampton were producing so many good young players and he said that they trained with the first team from a young age, making them physically stronger and better players for learning off their more experienced players. I thought at the time it was a good idea. To be fair, a lot of the youngsters do train with the first team We would though, in my opinion anyway, benefit from having a less bloated squad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Costello 77 Posted July 20, 2017 Share Posted July 20, 2017 1 minute ago, gurujuan said: To be fair, a lot of the youngsters do train with the first team We would though, in my opinion anyway, benefit from having a less bloated squad 50 maybe 60 games tho? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hawkeye Posted July 20, 2017 Share Posted July 20, 2017 1 hour ago, Olibeak said: George who? Re-set your satnav, Pulsar. Think you've turned onto the wrong thread -- or misinterpreted the intention of this one. Anyone who's done an apprenticeship (do they still exist?) will know the benefit of working with and learning from older and more experienced people on a regular basis. It's an essential part of any long-term strategy. Unfortunately, the low level of U23s involvement in first-team training applies to Middlewood, not just Albufeira. If one of these promising young uns should ever need to be called up into the first team (injuries, suspensions, whatever), it's important that they know -- and are known and trusted by -- their team mates. That would be built up on the training ground and by mixing together at Middlewood. Hi Sean. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dutch McLovin Posted July 20, 2017 Share Posted July 20, 2017 Our first team squad is too big hence the lack of youth presence. But at the moment with this Portugal tour it makes little difference. We're back next week and I'm sure they train together with the seniors. Personally I would like to see Stobbs Hirst and Penney involved with the first team but we have about 8 billion strikers and wingers who don't get a game anyway and he seems to have 3 first team lefts backs in Pudil Reach and Fox. So there not gonna get a chance and are best off going on loan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lincs Owl Posted July 20, 2017 Share Posted July 20, 2017 (edited) Our youth setup has been rubbish for years. When I first started going, we had loads of local lads who we found for nothing. Peter Swan, Tony Kay, Johnny Fantham, Don Megson, Derek Wilkinson, Alan Finney, Albert Quixall. Four of those played for England. Two were from Manchester area but we scouted them. Struggling to think of any decent ones since Jack Charlton left. Not too bothered as long as we have a good side, but it would be nice to see some local lads come through the ranks. It annoys me watching England and seeing likes of Varney, Cahill. Wednesday fans but never played for us in first team. Edited July 20, 2017 by Lincs Owl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
since59owe Posted July 20, 2017 Share Posted July 20, 2017 4 hours ago, Kanye West said: The club aren't going to take all the players from the first team as well as loads from the U23's, what would be the point? You can't play everyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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