Holmowl Posted May 30, 2017 Share Posted May 30, 2017 Matches played with 3 CMs (not incl Play-Offs) P19 W8 D4 L7 Pts 28 Reast of season (excluding 46th game Fulham) P 26 W 16 D5 L5 Pts 53 With 3 CMs - 1.5 points per game Rest of season - over 2 points per game I made one adjustment, Bristol City home. Started with 3 CMs (Jones Lee BB) and 0-2 down when Wallace came on for Jones at HT. When I see threads or posts saying we need major surgery because we weren't good enough, it's just plain wrong. We had the players and the set-up for an auto spot. We just chose not to play it for 19 league matches and a semi-final. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gurujuan Posted May 30, 2017 Share Posted May 30, 2017 Not sure about that, I don't think our forwards, Hooper apart, were good enough for automatic promotion They are far too static for a club with our ambitions This isn't 2012 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holmowl Posted May 30, 2017 Author Share Posted May 30, 2017 Just now, gurujuan said: Not sure about that, I don't think our forwards, Hooper apart, were good enough for automatic promotion They are far too static for a club with our ambitions This isn't 2012 What is more important, fan thoughts or results? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gurujuan Posted May 30, 2017 Share Posted May 30, 2017 Fan thoughts of course Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davidioso Posted May 30, 2017 Share Posted May 30, 2017 Not convincing analysis, you can stats to say anything you want, What about the opposition and setting up to play particular teams? Weaker teams Home and away Available players Rub of the green etc. Not saying you are wrong, but not sure you are right..if you know what I mean, cant put my finger on it. Good post nonetheless Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommo_ Posted May 30, 2017 Share Posted May 30, 2017 We need someone like Lee Cattermole from Sunderland Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gurujuan Posted May 30, 2017 Share Posted May 30, 2017 1 minute ago, Tommo_ said: We need someone like Lee Cattermole from Sunderland Or better Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Animis Posted May 30, 2017 Share Posted May 30, 2017 51 minutes ago, Holmowl said: Matches played with 3 CMs (not incl Play-Offs) P19 W8 D4 L7 Pts 28 Reast of season (excluding 46th game Fulham) P 26 W 16 D5 L5 Pts 53 With 3 CMs - 1.5 points per game Rest of season - over 2 points per game I made one adjustment, Bristol City home. Started with 3 CMs (Jones Lee BB) and 0-2 down when Wallace came on for Jones at HT. When I see threads or posts saying we need major surgery because we weren't good enough, it's just plain wrong. We had the players and the set-up for an auto spot. We just chose not to play it for 19 league matches and a semi-final. Yes, 2 points would do it. So if we say go with a 4-4-2, who would your midfield 4 be? I assume you want the 'wide' men to be a FF/Wallace player. The problem I have with this, is CC appears to ask Wallace to tuck into the centre or drop off to protect Hunt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sheffield_dave Posted May 30, 2017 Share Posted May 30, 2017 Trying to shoehorn 3 central midfielders into a flat midfield 4 hasn't worked for us and you don't need stats to tell you that. With the possible exception that we lost our biggest game of the season when reverting back to it having not done for the previous 7 matches, of which we lost 1 - a dead rubber reserves game against Fulham. My pleasure at Carlos signing a new deal and my backing of him for the new season hinges on the assumption he's learned this and won't be doing it this season. I don't want to see Bannan, Lee and Hutch/Jones/Abdi/a new player in the same starting midfield unless it's for a change of formation or we have 3-4 wingers injured at the same time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gurujuan Posted May 30, 2017 Share Posted May 30, 2017 I'm not sure about any of this Yes to a point, the way we played was effective in terms of getting results However, I don't think we should try it again because, apart from being totally boring to watch, when push came to shove, we'd still fall short If we changed the way we played because teams were able to combat our high press style, it isn't gonna take them long to work out how to deal with this predictable way of playing Even I could coach a team to shut us out Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommo_ Posted May 30, 2017 Share Posted May 30, 2017 12 minutes ago, gurujuan said: Or better Perhaps, but he is better than who we already have Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holmowl Posted May 30, 2017 Author Share Posted May 30, 2017 29 minutes ago, Davidioso said: Not convincing analysis, you can stats to say anything you want, What about the opposition and setting up to play particular teams? Weaker teams Home and away Available players Rub of the green etc. Not saying you are wrong, but not sure you are right..if you know what I mean, cant put my finger on it. Good post nonetheless But they are not stats. They are points. Stats are nonesense about distance covered, possession % etc...but points are never stats. However, I did look into the weak v strong, home v away, and ( as you would expect given that it covers an entire season) it is a fair mix. You might imagine we played 3 CMs against strong teams and/or in Away matches. We didn't. The losses were against the following. I show their league position at that time:- Leeds H 21st Ipswich H 16th Brentford H 15th Burton A 20th Derby A 21st Brum A 5th Reading A 3rd As for rub of the green, you get it or suffer over a couple of matches, but not over 45. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holmowl Posted May 30, 2017 Author Share Posted May 30, 2017 21 minutes ago, gurujuan said: I'm not sure about any of this Yes to a point, the way we played was effective in terms of getting results However, I don't think we should try it again because, apart from being totally boring to watch, when push came to shove, we'd still fall short If we changed the way we played because teams were able to combat our high press style, it isn't gonna take them long to work out how to deal with this predictable way of playing Even I could coach a team to shut us out You are merging the 19 where we played with 3 CMs with the 26 others. At over two points per game nobody would be complaining about our football. Our horrible crab lop-sidedfootie was predominately with 3 CMs. Pick (fairly) your worst half dozen matches of this season and I suspect you will find we played with 3 CMs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davidioso Posted May 30, 2017 Share Posted May 30, 2017 1 hour ago, Holmowl said: With 3 CMs - 1.5 points per game Rest of season - over 2 points per game I would consider these stats mate, don't wanna get into semantics. Look I'm impressed with your in-depth analysis, but I consider the sample too small to draw any concrete conclusions. However way we analyse it, we fell short, suck it up. Our day will come! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holmowl Posted May 30, 2017 Author Share Posted May 30, 2017 29 minutes ago, gurujuan said: I'm not sure about any of this Yes to a point, the way we played was effective in terms of getting results However, I don't think we should try it again because, apart from being totally boring to watch, when push came to shove, we'd still fall short If we changed the way we played because teams were able to combat our high press style, it isn't gonna take them long to work out how to deal with this predictable way of playing Even I could coach a team to shut us out Nerdyowl has taken another look... 19 games with 3 CMs - we scored 19 goals - one goal per boring game 26 others - we scored 40 goals - 1.54 goals per game (And 5 of the 19 we did score were after Carlos took a CM off cos it wasn't working!!!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gurujuan Posted May 30, 2017 Share Posted May 30, 2017 14 minutes ago, Holmowl said: You are merging the 19 where we played with 3 CMs with the 26 others. At over two points per game nobody would be complaining about our football. Our horrible crab lop-sidedfootie was predominately with 3 CMs. Pick (fairly) your worst half dozen matches of this season and I suspect you will find we played with 3 CMs. Yes I am merging it all together because whichever way we played, it was mostly boring Hopefully good old Carlos will have devised another system, because I don't fancy sitting through that again Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holmowl Posted May 30, 2017 Author Share Posted May 30, 2017 16 minutes ago, Davidioso said: I would consider these stats mate, don't wanna get into semantics. Look I'm impressed with your in-depth analysis, but I consider the sample too small to draw any concrete conclusions. However way we analyse it, we fell short, suck it up. Our day will come! Thanks. Though 45 matches is a full season, not a sample. I just wanted to check if my instinct was correct. We looked horribly lop-sided and slow playing the extra CM, and the goals and points show that most fans' instincts were correct. I hope Carlos and his colleagues analyse what worked and what failed, and have 3 CMs in the bin by August. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue and white Posted May 30, 2017 Share Posted May 30, 2017 1 hour ago, Holmowl said: Nerdyowl has taken another look... 19 games with 3 CMs - we scored 19 goals - one goal per boring game 26 others - we scored 40 goals - 1.54 goals per game (And 5 of the 19 we did score were after Carlos took a CM off cos it wasn't working!!!) Can't argue with that fella. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rogerwyldesmullet Posted May 30, 2017 Share Posted May 30, 2017 Excellent OP which should be forwarded as a rhyming mantra to CC forthwith. "The truth may hurt but it sets you free. You can't play Hutch with Bannan and Lee" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dutch McLovin Posted May 30, 2017 Share Posted May 30, 2017 So basically we're saying the tactics were wrong.... the question is will he change ?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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