That six game run

[Holmowl]

The template for next season is right before our eyes. 

 

Best run since 1993.

 

Home wins against 1st, 9th and 14th.

Away wins against 16th, 17th and 24th.

 

Some say these teams were in flip-flops....led by McCarthy, Benitez, Warnock, Holloway and Rowett!!!???

 

Despite injured stars, we played 11 players in their best roles, and they had enough to win six in six. Does anyone honestly think that if we had played everyone in their best roles all season we would not have threatened Brighton's second place? 

 

If Bannan is to play he should play CM.

If Abdi is to play he should play CM.

If Nando is to play he should play LW.

We have excellent wingers. Play two not one.

We have top drawer strikers. Play two not one.

We have excellent CMs. Play two, not one isolated and an extra CB.

 

We can all guess and imagine what could happen if X played there and Y and Z played as a partnership, but those six matches were reality not fantasy. I remember Torry posting a month or so back that he didn't mind who started a particular match, because provided Carlos picked CMs in CM, wingers wide and strikers striking, he had confidence that all our players were good enough. 

 

We had Bannan/Jones.

We had Bannan/Lee

We had Rhodes/Fletch

We had Rhodes/Hooper

We had Fletch/Hooper

We had Reach and Wallace wide.

 

The names can change, but such good players will succeed for us if played in their best positions. 

 

Yes Jota. Yes Diame. Yes Hanley. But we already have enough to get an auto spot, provided they play as near to 46 games as possible in their best role.

[33]

I double agree

[Holmowl]

1 minute ago, 33 said:

I double agree

 

Bum. Don't know how that happened.

 

So that's a 12 game winning run.

[Tamworthowl]

Just as I wasn't over concerned about the 5 points from 7 matches run, I wasn't overwhelmed by the 6 match winning streak. Six games, 5 won by a single goal. We weren't able to blow teams away, or even secure a comfortable win. In fact we've rarely done that in Carlos' time here. 

 

And when it came to the crunch, a one goal lead wasn't enough.

 

Im not sure what the answer is, but it's not as simple as you make out.

 

 

[dewsburyowl58]

If and when we take the lead we should push on for a 2nd and 3rd instead of settling for a 1 goal lead we ARE good enough . Game management is all well and good but at some point we are going to have to play on the front foot for longer periods ,we play  a bit too safe imo 

Edited May 26, 2017 by dewsburyowl58

[darren906]

4 minutes ago, Tamworthowl said:

Just as I wasn't over concerned about the 5 points from 7 matches run, I wasn't overwhelmed by the 6 match winning streak. Six games, 5 won by a single goal. We weren't able to blow teams away, or even secure a comfortable win. In fact we've rarely done that in Carlos' time here. 

 

And when it came to the crunch, a one goal lead wasn't enough.

 

Im not sure what the answer is, but it's not as simple as you make out.

 

 

Maybe it's not, but surely it's the start of the answer. I thought the days of cms on the wing were long gone. Remember O'connor on the wing? There is no way Bb or lee should be on the wing, we had some many options on bench and in the squad. This season has gone, I'm glad carlos is staying but we must have a balanced side. 

[Tamworthowl]

5 minutes ago, darren906 said:

Maybe it's not, but surely it's the start of the answer. I thought the days of cms on the wing were long gone. Remember O'connor on the wing? There is no way Bb or lee should be on the wing, we had some many options on bench and in the squad. This season has gone, I'm glad carlos is staying but we must have a balanced side. 

 

Its not always the case that the best results/performances come from playing players in their best position or not at all. Hence the O'Connor scenario. He wasn't very good out wide, but he was by far the best we had.

 

But in 2017, we have more options.

 

Looking at the long list of pairings listed by Holmowl for a six match run, it smacks of rotation, or not knowing your best team. Something Carlos was heavily criticised for earlier in the season. 

 

With two of, Bannan, Lee, Abdi, Jones, Hutch in centre midfield, often we lack "balance". Not across the width balance, but front to back. Without Hutch we look vulnerable in defence; with him we lack going forward. This with or without "proper" wide players. And then we have to shoehorn Forestieri in somehow. 

 

A midfield of Reach, Lee, Bannan (or Hutch), Wallace, won't get us the goals we need to clinch top two next season.

 

[York_Owl]

 Not for me. A formation change is required to get the best out of the players we have. 4-3-3 with a new central midfielder of Mooy's class. So a central three of:

Abdi

new cm

Lee

 

FF could then play on the left in one of the three forward roles.

[slinger208b]

11 minutes ago, York_Owl said:

 Not for me. A formation change is required to get the best out of the players we have. 4-3-3 with a new central midfielder of Mooy's class. So a central three of:

Abdi

new cm

Lee

 

FF could then play on the left in one of the three forward roles.

 

I don't usually speculate about formations, but this sort of thing is hitting the mark for me.

 

Fernando has previoulsy demonstrated a desire to play up front, not on the left.

We have arguably well envied firepower with the forwards.

We have Carlos' love of central midfielders.

Wingers haven't really worked at all under his reign.

 

Sort out the defence and I think we have a cracking 4-3-3 or 4-1-2-3...

[darren906]

In an interesting one, I'm personally in favour of a formation change but we did get success with a 4 4 2 last season playing good football and we did have success this season playing turgid football. There definitely needs to be a change of thought and put teams on backfoot, not sit back and try and hit on the break. A stronger midfielder, full backs and pacey winger will do. 

[Plonk]

52 minutes ago, Tamworthowl said:

 

Its not always the case that the best results/performances come from playing players in their best position or not at all. Hence the O'Connor scenario. He wasn't very good out wide, but he was by far the best we had.

 

But in 2017, we have more options.

 

Looking at the long list of pairings listed by Holmowl for a six match run, it smacks of rotation, or not knowing your best team. Something Carlos was heavily criticised for earlier in the season. 

 

With two of, Bannan, Lee, Abdi, Jones, Hutch in centre midfield, often we lack "balance". Not across the width balance, but front to back. Without Hutch we look vulnerable in defence; with him we lack going forward. This with or without "proper" wide players. And then we have to shoehorn Forestieri in somehow. 

 

A midfield of Reach, Lee, Bannan (or Hutch), Wallace, won't get us the goals we need to clinch top two next season.

 

The number of threads on the subject suggests none of us agree what our best team or formation is.

[IstillhateSteveBould]

22 minutes ago, Plonk said:

The number of threads on the subject suggests none of us agree what our best team or formation is.

 

The number of threads from holmowl on this subject suggests a bizzare obsession. 

 

Not one mention of Carlos using a 433 in 3 of those 6 wins, shows the op is complete codswallop from someone trying to "prove" themselves right.

[York_Owl]

I would also argue that using essentially the same system and pretty much the same players will produce the same outcome (top six lose in the play offs). 

[Big Ron's Sovereign]

2 hours ago, Holmowl said:

 

 

Some say these teams were in flip-flops....led by McCarthy, Benitez, Warnock, Holloway and Rowett!!!???

 

 

Utter bull.

 

Newcastle were aiming for top spot.

McCarthy openly said he was resting players before so they'd be fresh to beat us.

Rowett was still after a playoff spot at the time.

Colin, do you honestly think he'd go easy against us?

 

 

 

[pazowl55]

To get promoted next season we are going to need a player to go above and beyond. Whether that's Rhodes scoring 20+ goals or Forestieri being a world beater every week. We are effectively going to have to have the best player in the division.

[brian joicey]

3 hours ago, Holmowl said:

The template for next season is right before our eyes. 

 

Best run since 1993.

 

Home wins against 1st, 9th and 14th.

Away wins against 16th, 17th and 24th.

 

Some say these teams were in flip-flops....led by McCarthy, Benitez, Warnock, Holloway and Rowett!!!???

 

Despite injured stars, we played 11 players in their best roles, and they had enough to win six in six. Does anyone honestly think that if we had played everyone in their best roles all season we would not have threatened Brighton's second place? 

 

If Bannan is to play he should play CM.

If Abdi is to play he should play CM.

If Nando is to play he should play LW.

We have excellent wingers. Play two not one.

We have top drawer strikers. Play two not one.

We have excellent CMs. Play two, not one isolated and an extra CB.

 

We can all guess and imagine what could happen if X played there and Y and Z played as a partnership, but those six matches were reality not fantasy. I remember Torry posting a month or so back that he didn't mind who started a particular match, because provided Carlos picked CMs in CM, wingers wide and strikers striking, he had confidence that all our players were good enough. 

 

We had Bannan/Jones.

We had Bannan/Lee

We had Rhodes/Fletch

We had Rhodes/Hooper

We had Fletch/Hooper

We had Reach and Wallace wide.

 

The names can change, but such good players will succeed for us if played in their best positions. 

 

Yes Jota. Yes Diame. Yes Hanley. But we already have enough to get an auto spot, provided they play as near to 46 games as possible in their best role.

and yet CC changed it (for the 2nd year in a row) for THE most important match !  

[oldishowl]

He started Lee and Bannan at Huddersfield .

They got murdered , we rarely got over the half way line.

Can we please stop thinking we can play 442 with Lee and Bannan in the middle and two wingers 

[Holmowl]

4 hours ago, Tamworthowl said:

 

Its not always the case that the best results/performances come from playing players in their best position or not at all. Hence the O'Connor scenario. He wasn't very good out wide, but he was by far the best we had.

 

But in 2017, we have more options.

 

Looking at the long list of pairings listed by Holmowl for a six match run, it smacks of rotation, or not knowing your best team. Something Carlos was heavily criticised for earlier in the season. 

 

With two of, Bannan, Lee, Abdi, Jones, Hutch in centre midfield, often we lack "balance". Not across the width balance, but front to back. Without Hutch we look vulnerable in defence; with him we lack going forward. This with or without "proper" wide players. And then we have to shoehorn Forestieri in somehow. 

 

A midfield of Reach, Lee, Bannan (or Hutch), Wallace, won't get us the goals we need to clinch top two next season.

 

 

There was all but no rotation.

 

In CM we only had Jones and Bannan fit for the first four, and only Lee and Bannan fit for the next two.

 

Wide, Reach and Wallace played all six.

 

Up top, it was any two from three of Fletch, Rhofes, Hooper. Sometimes all 3. FF got 30 minutes only.

 

You also say we ship goals without a Hutch. In these six wins we shipped 3 goals.

 

And you say a midfield of Wallace-Lee-Bannan-Reach hasn't enough goals. Yet we scored 10 in 6 games, which equates to 75 in a season. 

 

 

[Holmowl]

45 minutes ago, oldishowl said:

He started Lee and Bannan at Huddersfield .

They got murdered , we rarely got over the half way line.

Can we please stop thinking we can play 442 with Lee and Bannan in the middle and two wingers 

 

Using your logic, six wins and an away draw(against a promotion side) means that 442 with Lee/Bannan or Jones/ Bannan doesn't work?

 

 

[Tamworthowl]

3 minutes ago, Holmowl said:

 

There was all but no rotation.

 

In CM we only had Jones and Bannan fit for the first four, and only Lee and Bannan fit for the next two.

 

Wide, Reach and Wallace played all six.

 

Up top, it was any two from three of Fletch, Rhofes, Hooper. Sometimes all 3. FF got 30 minutes only.

 

You also say we ship goals without a Hutch. In these six wins we shipped 3 goals.

 

And you say a midfield of Wallace-Lee-Bannan-Reach hasn't enough goals. Yet we scored 10 in 6 games, which equates to 75 in a season. 

 

 

 

I didn't say we deliberately, nor consistently, rotated. I picked up your point that there was a number of changes. In a series of just six games. And arguably our best player played a bit part. Presumably you're happy for him to continue as a bit part player?

 

A midfield of Wallace Lee Bannan Reach might score 75 in a season. That would put us on a par with Brighton, but without Hutchinson we are less secure defensively (I didn't say we ship goals). Without Hutchinson we tighten up and the wingers become more defensive. So no, we don't ship goals without Hutch, but we take away from our attacking abilities in order to become more secure. As a result we score less goals than we might otherwise do.

 

I think we would all like to extrapolate from a six game winning run. That equates to 138 points in a season. I'd take that. But it isn't realistic. Neither is it realistic to extrapolate the possible goals scored. In my opinion, that midfield four will get us in the play offs again, but probably not top two.