Was automatic promotion honestly acheivable?

[captain bucky o'hare]

Yes, it absolutely was achievable. We had a great foundation to build on from the previous season. The money we spent since would have been enough if we'd used it in the right places. As others have said, it needed tweaking in a few areas. We clearly needed to add physicality down the spine of the team (CB, CM & CF) and some pace. We added Fletcher which was exactly what we needed upfront but we didn't address our lack of CB options or physicality in other areas.

 

We signed too many players that weren't discernibly different from what we already had, and wasted the first couple of months trying to fix things that weren't broken from the previous season. We didn't sign players that allowed us to "change the face" of the team as Carlos would put it, and where we have done, by signing wingers, we've seemed unwilling to ever utilise those options. 

 

We've got 3 strikers who are fantastic in the air, but how often do we put crosses into the box? We've got an embarrassment of attacking options, but somehow we reverted to Forestieri upfront again in the playoffs! That decision blew my mind. It was criminal when you have Winnall and Rhodes on the bench. One of our biggest flaws exposed in the playoff final, and plenty of other games besides, is that Forestieri is easily sidelined when he plays upfront, never mind when he's not fully fit. 

 

We also reverted to trying to shoehorn Hutchinson, Bannan and Lee into a four man midfield. Making these mistakes last season was forgivable, but repeating them millions and millions of pounds, and a season later is crazy. I want Carlos to be the one to take us forward but the recruitment, general approach to games this season and particularly the approach in the playoffs has me questioning if he's the best man for the job.

 

Putting all that aside the Forestieri debacle really didn't help matters. I've no doubt his ego will have been knocked by his handling of the contract situation and two pivotal penalty misses. I'd be amazed if he isn't looking back at the season and wondering whether he might have been a key cog in a promotion winning side if he'd been a little wiser.

 

At the end of this season, I still think we're a few tweaks away from being a top 2 side. CB, a strong CM, and a winger (or two) would be my priorities. I'd be amazed if we don't come under much greater pressure this summer from the newly relegated sides looking to cherry pick talent from the top of the division. Hopefully this doesn't trigger any more Forestieri type characters in the process.

 

One final question mark I have over our ability to challenge for automatic promotion next year is how much impact is Chansiri having over our recruitment beyond the £'s involved? Is his pursuit of entertaining football resulting in an under investment in our defensive options, and dictating that Carlos has to set the whole team up more defensively to compensate?

[Guest bagelybear]

Thanks for all your thoughts....

[Buxtongent]

teams like Burton taking 4 points from us! Our record against lower teams in the league was  pathetic

[TomtheOwl95]

Yes very, I think like most the Brighton away game was the day it became more or less impossible.

 

As an optimistic fan I did think if we still had a half chance after the Norwich game but we then had the bad run which ended any hope.

[Socialist_Owl]

No.  Too inconsistent, plus a Newcastle juggernaut that was the best team to ever suffer a drop.  The odds were always stacked against an auto.  Next season?  Hopefully.  The dropped squads really flipping suck.

 

It'll be just our luck that Villa gets it together.

Edited May 22, 2017 by Socialist_Owl

[shezzas left peg]

It goes back to especially the 6 game bad run, you win those I think with the pressure the geordies would have cracked and we wouldnt have been too far off them. 

[brian joicey]

On 2017-5-20 at 16:22, StudentOwl said:

Yes, our squad was on paper better than Brighton's

We lost it against Villa at home in the first game of the season... I can't remember having such a disparity between my expectations and the reality of how a team could perform as I did in that first game, I was so underwhelmed with the performance I could scarcely believe how uninspiring we were. Season never really progressed from there, save for maybe a small handful of games

absolutely spot on summary .... a whole summer of planning a strategy/ tactics  and we came up with the idea of NOT playing football !! 

[LoadABallacks]

Putting the playoff aside, for me, the biggest underachievement this season for me given what we had at our disposal was not being closer to the top 2. We should have been.  

 

Silly points dropped. The one that really stands out for me and another of Carlos' errors was that Burton away game we lost. Didn't address the center half issue in the summer and went in to that game with Pudil and Semedo at the back, to then go and sign Sasso the next day.  

[Sova]

12 hours ago, Buxtongent said:

teams like Burton taking 4 points from us! Our record against lower teams in the league was  pathetic

 

I don't agree - look at the coloured table here:

 

[parkerowl]

On 20/05/2017 at 16:18, bagelybear said:

if so at which point/game did we lose it?

 

Think if we'd won down at Brighton it was well and truly on.

[Sova]

To be honest, even without getting into discussions of our formation or what we could have done with fewer injuries, it's not hard to identify games that we could easily have won that would have got us challenging for automatic. But, on the other hand, I would have expected us to finish below Newcastle and Brighton this year. It's all ifs and buts anyway.

[Holmowl]

On 21/05/2017 at 13:43, Animal said:

Before the season you knew a team would have Rhodes, ff, abdi and hooper featuring and it wasn't us you'd be pooing yourself playing them. 

 

On paper we have one of the best squads going, but can they play together, nope.

 

Rhodes and Hooper as a strike partnership.

Abdi CM.

Nando LW.

They would be tremendous.

 

Rhodes and Hooper on bench.

Nando Striker.

Abdi LW.

No, you are correct. They can't play together.

 

 

[Jack1991]

On 20/05/2017 at 16:18, bagelybear said:

if so at which point/game did we lose it?

 

 

Brighton away no question.

[I Love Sturrock]

Chris Hughton went to Brighton (20th place) in December 2014 and had them challenging for the title within a year. David Wagner went to Huddersfield (18th place) in November 2015 and had them troubling the top two after little over a year. Jaap Stam went to Reading last summer (17th) and had them doing the same within months.

 

In two years, Carlos has spent more money than almost everyone in the division and been supported by a brilliant Chairman, yet he's no closer now than he's ever been.

To suggest automatic promotion has been beyond our grasp is risible.

[flo]

Its acheivable for everyone. 

[TomtheOwl95]

7 hours ago, I Love Sturrock said:

Chris Hughton went to Brighton (20th place) in December 2014 and had them challenging for the title within a year. David Wagner went to Huddersfield (18th place) in November 2015 and had them troubling the top two after little over a year. Jaap Stam went to Reading last summer (17th) and had them doing the same within months.

 

In two years, Carlos has spent more money than almost everyone in the division and been supported by a brilliant Chairman, yet he's no closer now than he's ever been.

To suggest automatic promotion has been beyond our grasp is risible.

So he was as close in August 2015 as he is now?

[I Love Sturrock]

12 hours ago, TomtheOwl95 said:

So he was as close in August 2015 as he is now?

 

This season has ended and we're still in the Championship. That season started in August 2015 in... the Championship. So yes.

 

I get your point, but there have been no signs of progression this season at all when you consider the money we've spent. When other teams get in the top two having spent much less, it puts the efforts of Carlos under deserved scrutiny.

 

The argument is often that other teams have spent money in the league (Derby, Wolves and Villa) and got nowhere near, so we should be grateful because money doesn't guarantee promotion. My counter-argument is that those are all basket case clubs with unstable owners, and Carlos is the only manager in the league who's had money to spend in tandem with the backing of a sensible Chairman.

[Holmowl]

On 21/05/2017 at 14:22, captain bucky o'hare said:

Yes, it absolutely was achievable. We had a great foundation to build on from the previous season. The money we spent since would have been enough if we'd used it in the right places. As others have said, it needed tweaking in a few areas. We clearly needed to add physicality down the spine of the team (CB, CM & CF) and some pace. We added Fletcher which was exactly what we needed upfront but we didn't address our lack of CB options or physicality in other areas.

 

We signed too many players that weren't discernibly different from what we already had, and wasted the first couple of months trying to fix things that weren't broken from the previous season. We didn't sign players that allowed us to "change the face" of the team as Carlos would put it, and where we have done, by signing wingers, we've seemed unwilling to ever utilise those options. 

 

We've got 3 strikers who are fantastic in the air, but how often do we put crosses into the box? We've got an embarrassment of attacking options, but somehow we reverted to Forestieri upfront again in the playoffs! That decision blew my mind. It was criminal when you have Winnall and Rhodes on the bench. One of our biggest flaws exposed in the playoff final, and plenty of other games besides, is that Forestieri is easily sidelined when he plays upfront, never mind when he's not fully fit. 

 

We also reverted to trying to shoehorn Hutchinson, Bannan and Lee into a four man midfield. Making these mistakes last season was forgivable, but repeating them millions and millions of pounds, and a season later is crazy. I want Carlos to be the one to take us forward but the recruitment, general approach to games this season and particularly the approach in the playoffs has me questioning if he's the best man for the job.

 

Putting all that aside the Forestieri debacle really didn't help matters. I've no doubt his ego will have been knocked by his handling of the contract situation and two pivotal penalty misses. I'd be amazed if he isn't looking back at the season and wondering whether he might have been a key cog in a promotion winning side if he'd been a little wiser.

 

At the end of this season, I still think we're a few tweaks away from being a top 2 side. CB, a strong CM, and a winger (or two) would be my priorities. I'd be amazed if we don't come under much greater pressure this summer from the newly relegated sides looking to cherry pick talent from the top of the division. Hopefully this doesn't trigger any more Forestieri type characters in the process.

 

One final question mark I have over our ability to challenge for automatic promotion next year is how much impact is Chansiri having over our recruitment beyond the £'s involved? Is his pursuit of entertaining football resulting in an under investment in our defensive options, and dictating that Carlos has to set the whole team up more defensively to compensate?

 

Really good summary.

[I Love Sturrock]

On ‎21‎/‎05‎/‎2017 at 14:22, captain bucky o'hare said:

One final question mark I have over our ability to challenge for automatic promotion next year is how much impact is Chansiri having over our recruitment beyond the £'s involved? Is his pursuit of entertaining football resulting in an under investment in our defensive options, and dictating that Carlos has to set the whole team up more defensively to compensate?

 

He might be underplaying Chansiri's involvement, but Carlos has stated on many occasions since the dissolution of the transfer committee that he's in charge of transfers.

 

The incident from the start of last season that makes me believe him is when Carlos reiterated on radio for weeks that we had plenty of cover at centre-half with Pudil, Semedo and Hutchinson. We went away to Burton and with Lees, Hutchinson and Loovens injured, ended up losing with Semedo and Pudil at centre-half. Carlos panicked straight away and went back in for Sasso.

 

It just seems to me that Carlos doesn't give defensive signings the attention he should.

[TomtheOwl95]

11 hours ago, I Love Sturrock said:

 

This season has ended and we're still in the Championship. That season started in August 2015 in... the Championship. So yes.

 

I get your point, but there have been no signs of progression this season at all when you consider the money we've spent. When other teams get in the top two having spent much less, it puts the efforts of Carlos under deserved scrutiny.

 

The argument is often that other teams have spent money in the league (Derby, Wolves and Villa) and got nowhere near, so we should be grateful because money doesn't guarantee promotion. My counter-argument is that those are all basket case clubs with unstable owners, and Carlos is the only manager in the league who's had money to spend in tandem with the backing of a sensible Chairman.

Who are these teams you are talking about? Since Carlos has been here only Burnley, Middlesbrough, Newcastle and Brighton have finished in the top 2. Which one of those spent less than we did?