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FAO Carlos out Brigade


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I'm not necessarily in the Carlos Out camp as I think overall he's done a good job and in all honesty I can't think of anyone who could come in and would do any better.

 

I appreciate that the division is harder this season, the expectations are higher, respect from our opponents is higher and tweaks have probably been necessary to counter this.

 

We are holding our own again and a play-off place is in our own hands with 12 games to go but I wonder if we will nail the place down with the way we are playing. Last season we had a vibrancy and a positivity in our play, this season this is no longer in evidence despite the side/squad arguably being better? 

 

We have brought in the likes of Abdi, Jones, McManaman and Rhodes who are top end championship players who also know a bit about playing in the premier league but Carlos would rather play Reach week in, week out who despite the record transfer fee paid has done the square root of nothing.

 

And yesterday for the first time that is why I seriously questioned if Carlos was still the right man to take us forward as he would move Reach around the pitch rather than take him off because he's not playing well and this has been the case for 90% of the season so far.

 

His lack of use of the players I've mentioned that were brought in to push us on has raised questions and understandably so. We have resorted to safety first football like Stuart Gray had us play. The only reason we're not a mid table side is that we now have genuine quality players who are also genuine match winners who have took us to where we currently are. I just feel we could be so much better if these players were alllowed greater freedom, the freedom they were allowed last season. IMO unless the shackles are removed we are going to stumble into the play-offs rather than storm into them and there in lies the current problem? With the squad we now have and will continue to build we need the current head coach or someone else to drive and steer it up the motorway to the premier league not meander up it and get stuck on the hard shoulder for brief moments like we are currently are.

 

I still hope Carlos is the man to get us promoted but I sadly now have my doubts. 

Edited by Great Big Galaa
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5 minutes ago, Great Big Galaa said:

I'm not necessarily in the Carlos Out camp as I think overall he's done a good job and in all honesty I can't think of anyone who could come in and would do any better.

 

I appreciate that the division is harder this season, the expectations are higher, respect from our opponents is higher and tweaks have probably been necessary to counter this.

 

We are holding our own again and a play-off place is in our own hands with 12 games to go but I wonder if we will nail the place down with the way we are playing. Last season we had a vibrancy and a positivity in our play, this season this is no longer in evidence despite the side/squad arguably being better? 

 

We have brought in the likes of Abdi, Jones, McManaman and Rhodes who are top end championship players who also know a bit about playing in the premier league but Carlos would rather play Reach week in, week out who despite the record transfer fee paid has done the square root of nothing.

 

And yesterday for the first time that is why I seriously questioned if Carlos was still the right man to take us forward as he would move Reach around the pitch rather than take him off because he's not playing well and this has been the case for 90% of the season so far.

 

His lack of use of the players I've mentioned that were brought in to push us on has raised questions and understandably so. We have resorted to safety first football like Stuart Gray had us play. The only reason we're not a mid table side is that we now have genuine quality players who are also genuine match winners who have took us to where we currently are. I just feel we could be so much better if these players were alllowed greater freedom, the freedom they were allowed last season. IMO unless the shackles are removed we are going to stumble into the play-offs rather than storm into them and there in lies the current problem? With the squad we now have and will continue to build we need the current head coach or someone else to drive and steer it up the motorway to the premier league not meander up it and get stuck on the hard shoulder for brief moments like we are currently are.

 

I still hope Carlos is the man to get us promoted but I sadly now have my doubts. 

Absolutely bang on there pal.

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16 minutes ago, robswfc said:

By your logic then we should have a 16 man squad with a few players extra to cover injuries and reserves on peanuts?

 

If they are on peanuts. Effectively, we have a right wing slot currently covered by four salaries, two of which have only played a handful of games between them and, at a very generous best, only have a 50/50 chance of ever representing the club again. Left back is also currently covered by four salaries, one who is never likely to play and one brought in recently despite already having two players covering that position.

 

So Buckley was brought in as cover for Wallace as the previous cover (Sougou) was deemed s h I t. We eventually got rid of Sougou but his replacement (Buckley) is not considered up to it so McManaman is brought in. But all that is largely irrelevant because the coach still has a strong preference for Wallace. Oh, when Sougou was brought in, he was deemed cover for Wallace but it turns out that a player already at the club (Helan) was the better option anyway so Sougou could be mothballed.

 

How long before Fox is deemed not good enough and ends up a bit part player behind Reach and Pudil?

 

That's not even starting to cover the striker role where we effectively have SEVEN options albeit one has gone out on loan. Nuhiu who was given a new contract not so long ago is now likely to be mothballed and only recalled if we are safely seven points clear in the play-offs with two games remaining (providing he can get in instead of George Hirst).

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40 minutes ago, Great Big Galaa said:

I'm not necessarily in the Carlos Out camp as I think overall he's done a good job and in all honesty I can't think of anyone who could come in and would do any better.

 

I appreciate that the division is harder this season, the expectations are higher, respect from our opponents is higher and tweaks have probably been necessary to counter this.

 

We are holding our own again and a play-off place is in our own hands with 12 games to go but I wonder if we will nail the place down with the way we are playing. Last season we had a vibrancy and a positivity in our play, this season this is no longer in evidence despite the side/squad arguably being better? 

 

We have brought in the likes of Abdi, Jones, McManaman and Rhodes who are top end championship players who also know a bit about playing in the premier league but Carlos would rather play Reach week in, week out who despite the record transfer fee paid has done the square root of nothing.

 

And yesterday for the first time that is why I seriously questioned if Carlos was still the right man to take us forward as he would move Reach around the pitch rather than take him off because he's not playing well and this has been the case for 90% of the season so far.

 

His lack of use of the players I've mentioned that were brought in to push us on has raised questions and understandably so. We have resorted to safety first football like Stuart Gray had us play. The only reason we're not a mid table side is that we now have genuine quality players who are also genuine match winners who have took us to where we currently are. I just feel we could be so much better if these players were alllowed greater freedom, the freedom they were allowed last season. IMO unless the shackles are removed we are going to stumble into the play-offs rather than storm into them and there in lies the current problem? With the squad we now have and will continue to build we need the current head coach or someone else to drive and steer it up the motorway to the premier league not meander up it and get stuck on the hard shoulder for brief moments like we are currently are.

 

I still hope Carlos is the man to get us promoted but I sadly now have my doubts. 

 

I would agree with a lot of that, and would go further, the only reason we are not a mid table side, is down to a few individual moments of brilliance from Forestieri. What I don't understand is, why add £25m worth of creative/attacking talent to the squad, a squad that was already free scoring, and then stifle that talent by, either not playing them, or asking them to do jobs they aren't particularly comfortable in. Surely, if we wanted to play this way, we could have signed a couple of combative midfielders, and beefed up the back line. It just doesn't make sense.

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Some very valid points have been made on this thread in relation to CC and his positive and negative attributes, his successes and his failings.  However, the OP was somewhat negative and completely ignored the fact that Owlstalk is first and foremost a discussion forum.   It's where people with a common interest express their views and debate issues relevant to that interest.  It is disrespectful in my view, to just come on here and call people names or criticise them because their opinions differ from your own.  The quality of the discussions would be far better if everyone remembered that principle.

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1 hour ago, Captain Sl-OWL-ly said:

This thread and topic is so remanisant of the last 6 months of the Jones era, it started off with a few saying he wasn't doing it and them then having their heads ripped off by the "but he got us promotion" clan but slowly those "out" voices got larger in quantity and louder yet Jones didn't change his style he just kept making more and more cringeworthy excuses, after all good managers don't change overnight - or do they?

 

Ultimately Jones didn't improve and he went, the same will happen to Carlos because he too refuses to change...

 

The only difference this time is that we are at the other end of the table and rather than dropping into the relegation zone we are in danger of dropping out of a play off spot, it just shows how far we have come under Mr Chansiri, Milan was a big supporter of DJ and ultimately took the tough decision, Mr C will have to do the same at some point.

 

The first cut is often the cleanest.. 

 

The similarities are remarkable.

 

We are running out of games to change our approach. I honestly didn't believe it was possible to make a squad this good, play so badly.

 

Rhodes was the marquee signing that should have had the rest of division quaking. Instead, there isn't one side even slightly afraid of playing us, as they all know we are easy to contain and turn over.

 

This only ends one way if we don't change and change quick.

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1 minute ago, Mr Farrell said:

 

The similarities are remarkable.

 

We are running out of games to change our approach. I honestly didn't believe it was possible to make a squad this good, play so badly.

 

Rhodes was the marquee signing that should have had the rest of division quaking. Instead, there isn't one side even slightly afraid of playing us, as they all know we are easy to contain and turn over.

 

This only ends one way if we don't change and change quick.

 

I agree totally although the sad thing is, I think deep down we all know that if change does come it won't be until the summer, by which time a golden opportunity to get promoted will have passed us by.

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OK so the football has not been as entertaining as last season, but if we finish in the top 6, and I think we will, then it will still have been a good season.

I think Carlos is here for the long term, there is a philosophy behind his approach that is being implemented throughout the club and is being backed by Mr Chansiri

There have been mistakes in recruitment but I do think the squad is better than last season.

I would suggest that if all the fans got behind the players 100% over the rest of the season and stopped groaning when a pass doesn't go forward or when someone makes a mistakes, then the confidence would go up.

Nobody plays better when fans have a go at them, but it helps to make the boo boys feel better about themselves. I beleive we have as big a part to play as anyone over the remainder of the season. Just get behind the team, make some possitive noise to improve the atmosphere and the team will play much better as a result.

If we were struggling against relegation, losing match after match then I could understand the negativity, but just lets give it a go over the rest of the season and then we can take stock at the end. If we fade away badly then I too will start to question the suitability of our manager.

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In my view, we're where we are largely because of the quality of our players. Where would Leeds be, for example, with Carlos at the helm? Leeds showed a discipline and an organization yesterday which we lack. We have better individuals, but they are a better team, a better composite. We look like a team of individuals; players with lots of ability at this level who simply aren't showing it. We're unlikely to be fighting relegation with this squad, and we may even finish in the top six, but I can't see us winning the play-offs. Certainly not if we had to face Leeds.

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4 hours ago, bradowl said:

We're not only club spending lots of money in this league. Some have spent far more and are nowhere near play offs. 

True

 

But answer me this

 

What's the point of spending 10 million on a player then not play to his strengths

 

The service to our forwards has been shocking all season

 

If we are going to play this way, ultra safe, without taking risks and hoping to pinch a goal

 

Why did Carlos choose to not invest in a top centre half

 

The goals we have conceded against Forest, Brentford, and Leeds show why we needed to bring another top quality centre half in

 

I've been saying all season, this will come back and bite Carlos, we're seeing it now

 

The warning signs are all there

Just a bloke, who used up all his luck in one go when he met his wife.

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8 minutes ago, S_W_F_C said:

It's to late to make a change now we just have to accept what we are.

 

The rest of the season will be boring and turgid football that will hopefully get us top 6.

 

Anyone waiting for this to click will have a long wait, it won't.

Carlos as good as said that in his interview. He called it "being positive".

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Just now, HOOTIE AND THE bobbar TU said:

True

 

But answer me this

 

What's the point of spending 10 million on a player then not play to his strengths

 

The service to our forwards has been shocking all season

 

If we are going to play this way, ultra safe, without taking risks and hoping to pinch a goal

 

Why did Carlos choose to not invest in a top centre half

 

The goals we have conceded against Forest, Brentford, and Leeds show why we needed to bring another top quality centre half in

 

I've been saying all season, this will come back and bite Carlos, we're seeing it now

 

The warning signs are all there

Carlos intended to play Hutch at CB, but realized after the window closed that he couldn't do without him in midfield. Everybody agrees with you, even the RS crew, everybody bar Carlos.

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10 minutes ago, S_W_F_C said:

It's to late to make a change now we just have to accept what we are.

 

The rest of the season will be boring and turgid football that will hopefully get us top 6.

 

Anyone waiting for this to click will have a long wait, it won't.

 

This is correct!  We stick with Carlos until the end of the season but if he doesn't get us promoted, he goes.  I don't think we will click either as he isn't close to knowing his best system or team. 

 

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1 minute ago, Athelwulf said:

In my view, we're where we are largely because of the quality of our players. Where would Leeds be, for example, with Carlos at the helm? Leeds showed a discipline and an organization yesterday which we lack. We have better individuals, but they are a better team, a better composite. We look like a team of individuals; players with lots of ability at this level who simply aren't showing it. We're unlikely to be fighting relegation with this squad, and we may even finish in the top six, but I can't see us winning the play-offs. Certainly not if we had to face Leeds.

Totally agree, we a group of talented players , but not a TEAM  of players, we lack organisation and discipline, this comes from changing the team, espescially the defence.

Why was Fox played when he was not fully fit, Reech should have stayed there and played Macmanaman wide left, why was Hunt brought in?, it seems as if Kickaball makes these changes just for the fun of it.

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2 minutes ago, Athelwulf said:

Carlos as good as said that in his interview. He called it "being positive".

If I was Carlos I'd want the fans to be positive because it makes it harder for chansiri to replace him with the fans behind him. 

 

Im not saying I'd get rid of him, but I'm not sure if it's his place to tell the fans to be positive 

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1 minute ago, Athelwulf said:

Carlos intended to play Hutch at CB, but realized after the window closed that he couldn't do without him in midfield. Everybody agrees with you, even the RS crew, everybody bar Carlos.

It's a shame, because everyone loved Carlos last year

 

He was like a breath of fresh air

 

And I'm sure I wasn't the only one who thought that if we signed two new full backs, a centre half, a midfield beast, a winger and a 20 goal striker 

 

Then we'd do some real damage this season

 

But for whatever reason, Carlos chose to keep the core of last season, but go all defensive

 

For my money, we've signed the 20 goal striker, but none of the others

 

What's the point of signing a striker who thrives on crosses, but refuse to play to his strengths

 

And then substitute him when we're trying to get back into the game

 

And the people looking at graphs and thinking we are okay because we're better positioned than last season

 

Tell that to Fulham and Norwich, because they both believe they will close the gap

 

And I do too

Just a bloke, who used up all his luck in one go when he met his wife.

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Comes down to preferences - if people are happy with the way things are then he should stay.

 

But CC won't get us into the Prem - I think deep down most realise this.

 

Personally I'd like a little more than that for this club and if that means being ruthless and taking decisions that need to be taken, so be it.

 

It can be done -  cast minds back...Jones squeezed an extra 10% out of the team which eluded Megson - enough to finish the job.

 

Get the right man in and pay whatever it takes - the tools are here just waiting...

 

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15 hours ago, ChinaOwl said:

 

It is a precondition rather than a demand. The poster is say "Only if .......... then ...........". That is setting a precondition based on his own personal choice whereas a demand would be "They had better ............. or else". Subtle but clear difference.

 

Anyhow, forget grammar teaching, get back to the footie.

 

lol

 

 

Did you miss the last sentence?

 

"Either of the above better happen"

 

It's almost as if you're preaching to the choir. lol

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