Carlos under pressure

[Holmowl]

2 minutes ago, torryowl said:

I think your right ,it's all about keeping possession and it's not good to watch .....I find watching the Spanish national side extremely tedious but it's hard to argue against it when it brings the success they have had .

Spain.

Man City.

Arsenal.

 

Dull as dishwater a lot of the time.

 

I know City season-ticket holders who get bored to tears, but in seasons where they are successful they put up with the boring stuff. Plus they also have several matches each year where they score shedloads.

 

Relative to our recent history we are being successful, but boy we are dreadful to watch this season. If ultimately we make the play-offs and put up a good show, it's a price worth paying, but if we fall short then I for one would want a change. I really really want Carlos to succeed, for selfish and selfless reasons, but no more chances if he continues to serve up this unappetising stuff and fails.

[Dancobian]

3 hours ago, Carbone said:

 

Why isn't he getting the best out of the players? Why isn't it that the players are under performing and letting us down? 

Dare I say if Fletcher didn't hit the bar and Sasso scored in front of an open goal, you wouldn't have posted this?

 

Please tell me though if you know what Carlos could have done differently to get more out of these players so that they hit the target!

We've got an embarrassment of riches up front and none are scoring regularly. I could go on. It it's straight forward. We've no played well. We have better players than most championship teams with match winners, and that's why we've sneaked a lot of games. 

 

Compare how brighton play to us, do that have a better squad? NO! 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[nebneeb]

I think the other player is maybe Wallace.

 

By doing what Carlos is telling him, he's drawing personal criticism from some quarters. Being labelled a favourite, calls from him to be dropped, and even those questioning why he wasn't released last summer.

 

As a player that must be difficult to keep doing what the manager wants and suffer ever increasing dissent from fans who don't like it and are frustrated seeing the same over and over. I doubt on a personal level it's much fun to play in the current style either, especially when it doesn't end up with any points like on Tuesday.

 

[marconi]

I pay to watch 90 minutes football, not 45 minutes tippy tappy backwards, forwards, sideways, backwards lethargic play.

Can't say I've really enjoyed any of our home matches this season compared to last.

 

Team has to get the crowd going, the crowd respond to effort not some energy sapping first half tactics that for some reason have appeared this season.

[Nero]

3 hours ago, striker said:

I think pressure is affecting Carlos and his decision making, What he perhaps doesn't fully appreciate is that us fans are not stupid, we have sat through enough dross to recognise bobbar football when we see it and recognise there is  little evolution in our style of play in terms of imposing ourselves on opposites, bearing in mind our level last season and significant investment in playing squad. 

 

Let's face it 3 points Saturday could see us almost guaranteed a play off spot, would much rather we go and dominate teams and attack to build up some form than retain this negative slow tempo, grinding out results style, which is only effective for so long.

 

 

Im sure he actually does appreciate that a lot of fans are actually stupid and dont know what they are talking about.

He probably bears in mind that their opinions stupid or not will be influenced more by points than performances. 

 

My stupid non professional opinion is that we should attack more too. Happily though im not the manager as my simplistic crap tactics would get unravelled by proper managers. And the players wouldnt listen cos they would know i was bullshxtting.

[wednesdayok]

4 hours ago, theflyingowl said:

Carlos has come out and said he's had to talk to two 'top performers' who have been subject to criticism from the stands. I'm assuming one is bannan not sure who the other would be. Reach? 

 

Hes also said its his job to be positive and fight the virus 'negativity'.

 

One thing is for certain, the fans, including me being overly critical and negative is not going to push us over the line into the playoffs. Let's be positive and get behind the manager and Bannan etc instead of knocking them. 

 

I admit CC isn't getting the best out of the players and we've not played well but we are getting results. A new manager could get us playing better but there's not guarantee and it could go the other way. Look at Birmingham. 

 

Lets get behind the team and manager and see what the season brings. We're looking good for the playoffs and they won't be as difficult this year. We're on our way. 

 

UTO 

 

 

I've been saying this for ages. We need to be behind everyone at the club wearing our proud shirt regardless an off day now and again, evemtually everyone will reap the benefits WAWAW

[Whatahoot]

1 hour ago, torryowl said:

I think your right ,it's all about keeping possession and it's not good to watch .....I find watching the Spanish national side extremely tedious but it's hard to argue against it when it brings the success they have had .

Having lived in Spain for ten years + and watched plenty of Spanish football in my time, there is a very good reason why the Spanish play a lot of slow, ball retention style of football and that is the very hot and humid weather conditions they have to endure out there. They can hardly play a quick tempo, fast closing down style can they ? They play a very efficient style of football and rely heavily on their ability to pass a ball accurately, have plenty of creativity in their sides and adopt a "thou shall not get past me" approach.. That's what brings them success imo. Technically its high class.

[bigthinrob]

5 hours ago, kingsidney said:

The negativity stemmed from Carlos who was making excuses about being tired before we even kicked off. 

 

 

 

I think we may as well face facts, that there has been an underlying simmering resentment from a number of 'people' (I won't call them fans) from the day he was recruited.

 

This carried on in the early few months where the detractor's tipped he would be "gone by January".

 

It carried on through the entire season until there was brief respite when we got to the play off final and then kicked off again when we lost.

 

This season there has been a constant slow drip of anti CC sentiment and when the detractor's couldn't fault the league position, it then turned to the style of play to fuel the resentment.

 

This idea that we played rampaging, cavalier football last year has been massively overplayed with people conveniently forgetting some of the lower points. (This clearly doesn't mesh with the idea that CC has lost the plot).

 

Yeah, no one can argue the play is more akin to last year's Middlesborough than who? can't particularly think of an example to be honest, but even allowing for this more pragmatic style, is the rampant criticism on the level it has become really justified?

 

It is almost like the level of 'negativity' is worn with some sort of 'badge of honour' by the 'fans' (and i use that term lightly).

 

This negativity is now clearly having a massively adverse affect on the team & manager, as it has now been referred to, and they are now looking more & more nervous and reluctant to move it forward at pace, which ironically has become a self fulfilled prophecy and the very thing the 'fans' have been negative about.

 

The 'negativity' didn't stem from CC, it stemmed from the 'fans' who not only crave the success they feel entitled to, they now also want it achieved in a certain style.

 

All the team's that went up last year didn't play with this supposed flair and also didn't have this 'double edged sword' to contend with, but it seems our 'fans' are much pickier and clearly harder to please.

 

Negativity, no matter how fiercely justified, never achieved anything and this will be no exception and to dress it up as CCs fault when we sit 6th and still massively in contention albeit not playing a rampaging style, is nothing short of a disgrace.

 

Be very very careful what you wish for.

 

Ask any of the teams who have previously been pushing for promotion who now languish mid table. 

[Dancobian]

5 hours ago, Bodhidharma said:

Nobody can control or moderate the thoughts or actions of tens of thousands of people.

 

Attempting to do so is foolhardy. 

 

Success stops negativity. 

 

Wonder how many negative Huddersfield fans there are? 

 

 

Ridiculous. 

 

Its relative. Huddersfield haven't spent much and they're over achieving. 

 

Getting in the top 2 was always going to be hard albeit you'd have said Villa or Norwich would be in Brightons position. 

 

Have we underachived. Only slightly. We're a few points clear looking good in the playoffs. 

 

We are not struggling by any stretch, do you think slagging bannan off is going to spur him on or make him make more mistakes? He's an absolute competitor and I don't think poor form is down to him not being arsed. 

 

As an employer I can tell you an arm round the shoulder usually works much better than getting beat with a stick. 

[Animis]

24 minutes ago, bigthinrob said:

 

I think we may as well face facts, that there has been an underlying simmering resentment from a number of 'people' (I won't call them fans) from the day he was recruited.

 

This carried on in the early few months where the detractor's tipped he would be "gone by January".

 

It carried on through the entire season until there was brief respite when we got to the play off final and then kicked off again when we lost.

 

This season there has been a constant slow drip of anti CC sentiment and when the detractor's couldn't fault the league position, it then turned to the style of play to fuel the resentment.

 

This idea that we played rampaging, cavalier football last year has been massively overplayed with people conveniently forgetting some of the lower points. (This clearly doesn't mesh with the idea that CC has lost the plot).

 

Yeah, no one can argue the play is more akin to last year's Middlesborough than who? can't particularly think of an example to be honest, but even allowing for this more pragmatic style, is the rampant criticism on the level it has become really justified?

 

It is almost like the level of 'negativity' is worn with some sort of 'badge of honour' by the 'fans' (and i use that term lightly).

 

This negativity is now clearly having a massively adverse affect on the team & manager, as it has now been referred to, and they are now looking more & more nervous and reluctant to move it forward at pace, which ironically has become a self fulfilled prophecy and the very thing the 'fans' have been negative about.

 

The 'negativity' didn't stem from CC, it stemmed from the 'fans' who not only crave the success they feel entitled to, they now also want it achieved in a certain style.

 

All the team's that went up last year didn't play with this supposed flair and also didn't have this 'double edged sword' to contend with, but it seems our 'fans' are much pickier and clearly harder to please.

 

Negativity, no matter how fiercely justified, never achieved anything and this will be no exception and to dress it up as CCs fault when we sit 6th and still massively in contention albeit not playing a rampaging style, is nothing short of a disgrace.

 

Be very very careful what you wish for.

 

Ask any of the teams who have previously been pushing for promotion who now languish mid table. 

 

The number of fans who had an issue with CC from the off was extremely small as a % of the wider fan base. If I remember correctly, many held this view because of some loyalty to Stuart Gray, not because of CC. He did start off poorly, and he himself said he would have sacked after the Middlesbrough home game, in other countries he's managed in.

 

Saying that there is massive adverse affect of the team & manager due to the fans' negative is a very sweeping statement, without any foundation. The fans IMO are generally positive about the club, team and manager, much more so than i've know for years. Yes, expectations are higher, but that is simply because of the level of investment what the owner is putting in.

 

 

[lincolnowl]

I actually thought the crowd really tried to be supportive on Tuesday. But the players let them down - badly. 

 

Talking about the "environment" etc is just foolhardy. We will get everyone onside by playing well, scoring goals and winning. 

 

Football S6 has to be played at a tempo and with purpose. 

 

The presser this afternoon was a manager under pressure. So he should be. He can turn that around by taking the shackles off his team. 

[Doctor John]

6 hours ago, torryowl said:

I think as a rule the fans are behind the team ...I don't feel there's a negative vibe from the vast majority who go .

 

That's my view. I suspect the negative feelings are shared by a tiny, but vocal minority. Representatives of this minority dominate forums like P&G. Vast bulk are pleased that after so long in the wilderness, we are now serious contenders for the premiership. 

[handworth52]

Carlos is under pressure but no more than any other manager.who would have thought Leicester manager would get sack .I really fear for him on Saturday leeds are no where near as talented as us but have pace and far stronger than us , they will also be well up for the game , I can't get to game and I will not watch it as it will make me sick if we lose  . I cant stand them but im not deluded like some They play to there strengths we clearly don't . A 5/10 performance like at Preston wigan forest will be nowhere near good enough ,we need to win midfield battle and stop sacko and Co getting crosses in for wood.that won't happen with hunt n pudil at full back . If Lees was fit and fox I'd say we could maybe get a good result .I hope the players are really fired up for this game .this game is massive .if we lose and then concede an early goal against Norwich it won't be a good atmosphere .i think we should take game to leeds and not sit back too much.most supporters know there football and can see where it's not right .all of us said we needed a bully in midfield and a commanding centre half in summer neither came and now we really need those missing 2 players what would have got us up. Who has confidence that Bannan in a midfield 2 against there much bigger 3 in midfield will be able to take game to them .I will be elated if we win but on what I've seen by us this season and seeing how they play also against us does not fill me with confidence.

[East Yorks Owl]

I agree with other posters who thought that despite the poor first half on Tuesday, the fans were still supportive of the players.  Watching the match I can remember thinking how impressive the support was considering how poorly we were playing for much of that first half.

 

First things first I really like Carlos and really want him to do well, but when it comes to issues of negativity surely our passive play in many first halves is a classic example and also constantly allowing players the tiredness excuse when we play 2 games in a few days is another?  Surely Carlos would be better to forget about playing the tired card and also encourage the players to lay down a marker in the first 10 mins?

 

I've helped another dad run an amateur football team for a few years now and we've had plenty of success, but when we've played poorly and lost, its usually been because we've started badly with the wrong mindset.   The old cliché about winning the right to play is absolutely clear in my mind, so when we set our team out to play our closing shot before starting the first and second halves is look to control the game in the first 10 mins by pressing and high tempo passing.  Obviously CC has much more to think about tactics wise, but I can't see any rationale behind sitting back and gifting the initiative to the opposition by being as passive as we were on Tuesday.

Edited February 24, 2017 by East Yorks Owl

[pgmetcalf]

This is what I've been saying for years, slating players may be the easy option but it really solves nothing. In fact it's detrimental

[nebneeb]

1 hour ago, bigthinrob said:

 

I think we may as well face facts, that there has been an underlying simmering resentment from a number of 'people' (I won't call them fans) from the day he was recruited.

 

This carried on in the early few months where the detractor's tipped he would be "gone by January".

 

It carried on through the entire season until there was brief respite when we got to the play off final and then kicked off again when we lost.

 

This season there has been a constant slow drip of anti CC sentiment and when the detractor's couldn't fault the league position, it then turned to the style of play to fuel the resentment.

 

This idea that we played rampaging, cavalier football last year has been massively overplayed with people conveniently forgetting some of the lower points. (This clearly doesn't mesh with the idea that CC has lost the plot).

 

Yeah, no one can argue the play is more akin to last year's Middlesborough than who? can't particularly think of an example to be honest, but even allowing for this more pragmatic style, is the rampant criticism on the level it has become really justified?

 

It is almost like the level of 'negativity' is worn with some sort of 'badge of honour' by the 'fans' (and i use that term lightly).

 

This negativity is now clearly having a massively adverse affect on the team & manager, as it has now been referred to, and they are now looking more & more nervous and reluctant to move it forward at pace, which ironically has become a self fulfilled prophecy and the very thing the 'fans' have been negative about.

 

The 'negativity' didn't stem from CC, it stemmed from the 'fans' who not only crave the success they feel entitled to, they now also want it achieved in a certain style.

 

All the team's that went up last year didn't play with this supposed flair and also didn't have this 'double edged sword' to contend with, but it seems our 'fans' are much pickier and clearly harder to please.

 

Negativity, no matter how fiercely justified, never achieved anything and this will be no exception and to dress it up as CCs fault when we sit 6th and still massively in contention albeit not playing a rampaging style, is nothing short of a disgrace.

 

Be very very careful what you wish for.

 

Ask any of the teams who have previously been pushing for promotion who now languish mid table. 

 

Don't agree with the Middlesbrough comparison at all.

 

They were ruthlessly efficient last season.

They took the game to their opponents in the first half of games, generally taking the lead, then picked them off on the counter allowing them to cruise to victories.

 

I also can't see how you can say the negativity didn't stem from CC, when you acknowledge the football has changed this season.

Last season he said things like "Clean sheet isn't a word in my vocabulary" and all that matters is winning and scoring more goals.

Now every time we get one he emphasises it.

Football is so much about opinions and regardless of what CC did there would be alternative opinions.

If we were sitting in exactly the same position in the league playing a more adventurous style, there would be sure to be some that would advocate a more defensive approach...

 

Whilst I agree that whilst at the match negativity doesn't help, the support on Tuesday was actually decent considering absolutely no atmosphere from the away fans, the lethargic sloppy play, and gifting goals with poor marking.

[bigthinrob]

2 hours ago, Animis said:

 

The number of fans who had an issue with CC from the off was extremely small as a % of the wider fan base. If I remember correctly, many held this view because of some loyalty to Stuart Gray, not because of CC. He did start off poorly, and he himself said he would have sacked after the Middlesbrough home game, in other countries he's managed in.

 

Saying that there is massive adverse affect of the team & manager due to the fans' negative is a very sweeping statement, without any foundation. The fans IMO are generally positive about the club, team and manager, much more so than i've know for years. Yes, expectations are higher, but that is simply because of the level of investment what the owner is putting in.

 

 

 

CC has clearly made a point of referring to it, so it clearly is an issue, and clearly the players are gradually becoming more nervous on the ball with a view to avoiding the predictable groan (or worse) when they fail to make an incisive pass or dare (God Forbid) to pass it sideways or backwards.

 

I agree that a decent percentage of the fan base has been supportive, but there is a very constant & vociferous (possibly a minority) where nothing and i mean nothing is right. There is hardly a thread on here that doesn't have some sort of negative undertone, which taking into account our current position is fairly indicative of the mindset.

 

There is a definite feeling that the negatives are not responding to what is happening, but seemingly more of a case of just waiting for an opportunity to start with the negatives and to justify their previously spouted beliefs, that A:- CC was never the right man, and that B:- he is tactically unaware and somehow doesn't know what he's doing, whereas they do.

 

I sit on the middle of the Kop and read most things on here, and the general attitude seems very very negative to me, or maybe i'm sat in the wrong place or reading the wrong posts!!!!

[Paul G Wisbech Owl]

Not a fan of the really slow build up play from the back, preferred our more attacking play of last season. When we scored at Hillsborough last season you knew we would be looking for more, we now seem happy just to sit on what we got.

Reasonably happy with where we are in the league, but feel with a little more pace in our approach play we could have been sitting on a lot more points.

 

[bigthinrob]

1 hour ago, nebneeb said:

 

Don't agree with the Middlesbrough comparison at all.

 

They were ruthlessly efficient last season.

They took the game to their opponents in the first half of games, generally taking the lead, then picked them off on the counter allowing them to cruise to victories.

 

I also can't see how you can say the negativity didn't stem from CC, when you acknowledge the football has changed this season.

Last season he said things like "Clean sheet isn't a word in my vocabulary" and all that matters is winning and scoring more goals.

Now every time we get one he emphasises it.

Football is so much about opinions and regardless of what CC did there would be alternative opinions.

If we were sitting in exactly the same position in the league playing a more adventurous style, there would be sure to be some that would advocate a more defensive approach...

 

Whilst I agree that whilst at the match negativity doesn't help, the support on Tuesday was actually decent considering absolutely no atmosphere from the away fans, the lethargic sloppy play, and gifting goals with poor marking.

 

The negativity was there the day CC took over, carried on for a good few months, had a brief respite when things were looking good and has had a massive resurgence this season because although we are still sixth, we are somehow not playing in the manner demanded.

 

As for Middlesborough last year, they must have been the most ruthlessly efficient (as you say) 1-0 bore specialists going. In the second half the other night even though it didn't end up going our way, we must have made more chances than Boro did in the entire season (ok slight exaggeration) but you get my point.

 

I have no issue with people wanting a bit more tempo and momentum, but the level of criticism bearing in mind where we are is totally unwarranted.

 

I do agree with you  however that if we were playing a more adventurous style there would be critics, and i wouldn't mind betting that some of the ones advocating this style, would be up in arms, if the result of playing this way, was a position of 15th in the league for instance.    

[areNOTwhatTHEYseem]

When we win, we got lucky. Never mind the fact that we're currently averaging over two points per game from our last six matches - we got lucky, just like we did on 16 other occasions this season. When other teams hit the woodwork or miss half decent chances, we got lucky.

 

When we lose, it's been coming for weeks and we got what we deserved. When we hit the woodwork from four feet out, we got what we deserved.

 

All in the interest of petty 'I told you so' claims, and ignoring the fact that there's no such thing as luck in the first place, just various permutations of chance, opportunity and ability.

 

 

No wonder the negativity is starting to get to the squad.

Edited February 24, 2017 by areNOTwhatTHEYseem