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Take Care with those Wishes.


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3 hours ago, BarnOwl55 said:

I don't quite get it!  

 

Maybe that's my fault, but why all the all the heavy criticism of CC?  Comments on here lately such as, 'useless', 'got to go', 'doesn't know what he's doing', 'poor tactician', 'only one game plan', 'clueless', 'wasting resources' etc just don't stack up to me.

In the most competitive and unpredicatable league, certainly in England, if not Europe, (see Newcastle 0 v 2 Wolves), we are currently 1 win off the play-offs and 2 off the top two and only nine games in.  We are playing some pretty decent football, creating hatsful of chances, must surely be top of the entertainment league in terms of excitement generated, and averaging over 25,000 home gates.

 

I know we all want to 'p*** the league' and be top all season but let's temper our heady expectation with a touch of realism. I can understand and empathise with genuine frustration, but not blind and destructive knee-jerk criticism.

 

Above all, let's just also be careful about what we wish for:  to those who want a new face at the helm, please tell me who you would prefer to take over from CC.  I would ask you to take a look at Derby/Pearson, Sunderland/Moyes, Leeds/Monk, Who do wish for who would be prepared to manage in the Championship?    This is the best Wednesday back room set up and the best playing staff for years.  For crying out loud let's just have patience and a little faith and cease all this senseless knocking eh?

Its quite simple for me. A Sheff Wed related site is for debating all aspects of the club, but its also about letting out your emotions whether you win, lose or draw. There will be some cluless idiots who believe that Carlos isn't the man for whatever reason, but most people are just thinking out loud out of concern. So you can't take every single post on face value at all. I find that most people have something constructive to say that often is a valid criticism. The problem with these sites is it often all or nothing, going to the extremes of opinion, dependant upon the result. However, that's football fans and the nature of the sport. I would say that our fans in the main, have a good idea of what is hapenning at he club and the reasons why.

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18 minutes ago, WC1Owl said:

Well said OP.

 

The most important thing to a lot of posters on messageboards is ultimately being able to say they were right. As I've said before, if you're constantly negative, then in football you get to be right more often than not (especially as the metaphorical goalposts move and now the moaners say anything less than top 2 would be abject failure), and if you're wrong, nobody cares in the midst of the euphoria of success.

 

None of which is to say that the team is perfect, but the negativity on here after a very good run of results is irritating.

 

I think being open to learn new things is much healthier than being right. 

Edited by AwokenGiant
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Think the 'tippy tappy ' football was played with a bit more pace last season and we looked more energetic and competitive . Teams have the time to fall back and restrict space at the moment. Up the pace a bit and I think we'll see the team become more effective .

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12 minutes ago, alan48 said:

Think the 'tippy tappy ' football was played with a bit more pace last season and we looked more energetic and competitive . Teams have the time to fall back and restrict space at the moment. Up the pace a bit and I think we'll see the team become more effective .

There's nothing wrong with our pace when we are chasing a game. We can steamroller other teams when we get going.

 

We just need to get going in the first minute rather than the 60th. If we could bottle whatever it is we have done in all these comeback games and make the players take a swig before the match starts we would be unstoppable.

 

 

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17 minutes ago, alan48 said:

Think the 'tippy tappy ' football was played with a bit more pace last season and we looked more energetic and competitive . Teams have the time to fall back and restrict space at the moment. Up the pace a bit and I think we'll see the team become more effective .

Not sure i agree and to be fair not keen on the term 'tippy tappy' football.

 

'Tippy Tappy' by its nature has a derogatory connotation.

 

If you were to describe the two extremes, as a 'footballing side' or a 'long ball side', the perception of a 'footballing side' would be to totally different to a 'Tippy Tappy' one.

 

I also don't really agree we played with 'more pace' last year.

 

I distinctly recall saying time & again we needed a bit more tempo at times, especially when teams 'closed' us down and frustrated us. 

 

Don't disagree that we DO need to up the pace a bit and i think Abdi yesterday helped with that, as did Reach when he made his forays forward. 

 

Still trying to find the right formula, but there are signs we are getting a bit nearer to it, albeit gradually.

 

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7 minutes ago, prowl said:

There's nothing wrong with our pace when we are chasing a game. We can steamroller other teams when we get going.

 

We just need to get going in the first minute rather than the 60th. If we could bottle whatever it is we have done in all these comeback games and make the players take a swig before the match starts we would be unstoppable.

 

 

Against Brum and yesterday we dominated the game in the first 25 mins...created chances but didn't take any of them...that's the difference. I agree we weren't at it though until the last 20mins and when we are the tempo invariably increases...I'd like us to stick a couple of those chances away in those first 25 minutes so we don't have to pile it on in the last 10 mins

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The thing about any discussion site, be it football related or more general (such as Sheffield Forum), is that the most frequent contributors will tend to be the vocal minority, who sometimes add their opinion without always thinking through what they are saying, or whose opinions don't represent the views of silent majority.  

 

My own contributions are relatively infrequent, as the statistics under my user name will show.  However, I perhaps tend to be less extreme than some posters on here, even though on occasions I can have very strong opinions on certain issues.  Nevertheless I do enjoy reading the thoughts and opinions of others, without necessarily agreeing with those contributors.  I would venture to suggest that there are many, many people who view threads without actually contributing to the discussion and no doubt that is borne out by the number of "views" as opposed to the total number of posts on each respective thread.

 

One thing we all have in common (apart from those who have registered on the site who are blunts), is that we all want Wednesday to do well and from match to match we spend time on here for purposes of "entertainment", but not always contributing to the discussion.

 

UTO - WAWAW

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2 hours ago, Mick De Lyons said:

Its quite simple for me. A Sheff Wed related site is for debating all aspects of the club, but its also about letting out your emotions whether you win, lose or draw. There will be some cluless idiots who believe that Carlos isn't the man for whatever reason, but most people are just thinking out loud out of concern. So you can't take every single post on face value at all. I find that most people have something constructive to say that often is a valid criticism. The problem with these sites is it often all or nothing, going to the extremes of opinion, dependant upon the result. However, that's football fans and the nature of the sport. I would say that our fans in the main, have a good idea of what is hapenning at he club and the reasons why.

I'm confused. You describe anyone who believes that Carlos isn't the right man as a "clueless idiot".  This doesn't seem to equate with the commendable points you make in your post. 

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2 hours ago, Gingernuts said:

I'm confused. You describe anyone who believes that Carlos isn't the right man as a "clueless idiot".  This doesn't seem to equate with the commendable points you make in your post. 

 

When i referred to people who were " clueless idiots " with regards to Carlos, i was trying to differentiate between those fans that make constructive criticism and those that say " Time for Carlos to go ", after say the defeat to Burton as an example. The former is understandable, the latter is a thoughtless knee jerk reaction.

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Usual Owlstalk - black or white.

I have had a seat in the middle of the North since it opened in 1961 and before then, as a boy, stood at the front of Leppings Lane so have seen a few managers come and go.

There was quite a lot of criticism of Carlos' tactics yesterday from the people around me -  plenty of questions:-

 

  • Although there is some disappointment with individual players, including Westwood for the last two matches, most of it is about how players are used and tactics.
  • Real disappointment at the poor match starts and battling from behind, exciting as it is in the end
  • Most of us were hoping that, with a good team last season, the new signings would strengthen it and at last, we could have a decent start to the season. But this hasn't been the case and in many respects, the start is very similar to last season and there are worries that it will be tougher this year.
  • Why do we always pass back if we move forward quickly - then we lose the advantage? It is really tedious to watch and clearly these are tactics being required by the manager- we always play such a slow build up - do we really want there to be 8 people in the opponent's box defending - that takes an extremely skilful team to get through. We ought to mix it up more, keeping the opponents guessing.
  • Why has he played so many of the new players out of position? Abdi is known not to like playing on the wing, probably because he is not that good at it and yet, until yesterday, that's where he has been put. A different player when deployed in the centre.
  • Why do we seem to have only plan A, with the fall-back plan B to bring on big Dave? Two if not all three of yesterdays substitutions were forced by injury and not tactics.
  • The person putting the most pressure on Carlos will be the owner. I am sure he is much more demanding than the critics on here. Not known for his patience, he is the one likely to be asking the tough questions - he is the person who set the Premier League target to celebrate our 150th anniversary in 2017. He is obviously away at the moment as has missed the last two home matches. 
  • The people around me are not asking for a change at this time but most seem to feel that we do have an available and acceptable alternative who would get us back to the premier league and who would be happy at Hillsborough including the money available for the squad - Steve Bruce.
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1 hour ago, Andrew Robinson said:

Usual Owlstalk - black or white.

I have had a seat in the middle of the North since it opened in 1961 and before then, as a boy, stood at the front of Leppings Lane so have seen a few managers come and go.

There was quite a lot of criticism of Carlos' tactics yesterday from the people around me -  plenty of questions:-

 

  • Although there is some disappointment with individual players, including Westwood for the last two matches, most of it is about how players are used and tactics.
  • Real disappointment at the poor match starts and battling from behind, exciting as it is in the end
  • Most of us were hoping that, with a good team last season, the new signings would strengthen it and at last, we could have a decent start to the season. But this hasn't been the case and in many respects, the start is very similar to last season and there are worries that it will be tougher this year.
  • Why do we always pass back if we move forward quickly - then we lose the advantage? It is really tedious to watch and clearly these are tactics being required by the manager- we always play such a slow build up - do we really want there to be 8 people in the opponent's box defending - that takes an extremely skilful team to get through. We ought to mix it up more, keeping the opponents guessing.
  • Why has he played so many of the new players out of position? Abdi is known not to like playing on the wing, probably because he is not that good at it and yet, until yesterday, that's where he has been put. A different player when deployed in the centre.
  • Why do we seem to have only plan A, with the fall-back plan B to bring on big Dave? Two if not all three of yesterdays substitutions were forced by injury and not tactics.
  • The person putting the most pressure on Carlos will be the owner. I am sure he is much more demanding than the critics on here. Not known for his patience, he is the one likely to be asking the tough questions - he is the person who set the Premier League target to celebrate our 150th anniversary in 2017. He is obviously away at the moment as has missed the last two home matches. 
  • The people around me are not asking for a change at this time but most seem to feel that we do have an available and acceptable alternative who would get us back to the premier league and who would be happy at Hillsborough including the money available for the squad - Steve Bruce.

4 points.

 

1  :-  It is disingenuous to say 'People are not asking for a change at this time' and at the same time discussing a replacement.

 

2  :-  If they are not 'asking for a change at this time', how can you say SB is 'available' or more precisely would be available at any time in the future if the situation arose.   Clearly they are talking about 'at this time' ie 'the present'. 

 

3    Apologies for repeating a previous statement from another thread but

  :-  Look backwards and that's exactly where we'll go, as per past examples.

 

4 :- Why the certainty that SB 'would get us back to the Premiership'? 

 

Bruce is a product of another era. He JUST managed to take Hull up with piles of parachute payment money and hasn't exactly set the world on fire with his recent record. 

 

Never got the obsession with 'Big Nige' and equally don't see the obsession with Steve Bruce.

 

Don't see it, and as per the OP, 'be careful what you wish for', because i could easily see us lumbered with a 'past his best' dinosaur and see CC go from strength to strength with a club and fans where he is properly appreciated. 

 

  

 

 

Edited by bigthinrob
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12 hours ago, BarnOwl55 said:

I don't quite get it!  

 

Maybe that's my fault, but why all the all the heavy criticism of CC?  Comments on here lately such as, 'useless', 'got to go', 'doesn't know what he's doing', 'poor tactician', 'only one game plan', 'clueless', 'wasting resources' etc just don't stack up to me.

In the most competitive and unpredicatable league, certainly in England, if not Europe, (see Newcastle 0 v 2 Wolves), we are currently 1 win off the play-offs and 2 off the top two and only nine games in.  We are playing some pretty decent football, creating hatsful of chances, must surely be top of the entertainment league in terms of excitement generated, and averaging over 25,000 home gates.

 

I know we all want to 'p*** the league' and be top all season but let's temper our heady expectation with a touch of realism. I can understand and empathise with genuine frustration, but not blind and destructive knee-jerk criticism.

 

Above all, let's just also be careful about what we wish for:  to those who want a new face at the helm, please tell me who you would prefer to take over from CC.  I would ask you to take a look at Derby/Pearson, Sunderland/Moyes, Leeds/Monk, Who do wish for who would be prepared to manage in the Championship?    This is the best Wednesday back room set up and the best playing staff for years.  For crying out loud let's just have patience and a little faith and cease all this senseless knocking eh?

 

Fantastic post 

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48 minutes ago, bigthinrob said:

4 points.

 

1  :-  It is disingenuous to say 'People are not asking for a change at this time' and at the same time discussing a replacement.

 

2  :-  If they are not 'asking for a change at this time', how can you say SB is 'available' or more precisely would be available at any time in the future if the situation arose.   Clearly they are talking about 'at this time' ie 'the present'. 

 

3    Apologies for repeating a previous statement from another thread but

  :-  Look backwards and that's exactly where we'll go, as per past examples.

 

4 :- Why the certainty that SB 'would get us back to the Premiership'? 

 

Bruce is a product of another era. He JUST managed to take Hull up with piles of parachute payment money and hasn't exactly set the world on fire with his recent record. 

 

Never got the obsession with 'Big Nige' and equally don't see the obsession with Steve Bruce.

 

Don't see it, and as per the OP, 'be careful what you wish for', because i could easily see us lumbered with a 'past his best' dinosaur and see CC go from strength to strength with a club and fans where he is properly appreciated. 

 

  

 

 

 

this

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1 hour ago, bigthinrob said:

4 points.

 

1  :-  It is disingenuous to say 'People are not asking for a change at this time' and at the same time discussing a replacement.

 

2  :-  If they are not 'asking for a change at this time', how can you say SB is 'available' or more precisely would be available at any time in the future if the situation arose.   Clearly they are talking about 'at this time' ie 'the present'. 

 

3    Apologies for repeating a previous statement from another thread but

  :-  Look backwards and that's exactly where we'll go, as per past examples.

 

4 :- Why the certainty that SB 'would get us back to the Premiership'? 

 

Bruce is a product of another era. He JUST managed to take Hull up with piles of parachute payment money and hasn't exactly set the world on fire with his recent record. 

 

Never got the obsession with 'Big Nige' and equally don't see the obsession with Steve Bruce.

 

Don't see it, and as per the OP, 'be careful what you wish for', because i could easily see us lumbered with a 'past his best' dinosaur and see CC go from strength to strength with a club and fans where he is properly appreciated. 

 

  

 

 

See you're used to handling bullet points rob, or may I call you bigthin? Good rebuttal.

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20 hours ago, Kameron said:

Cracking guy but not sure he has what's needed for promotion.  A wins a win but we won't get away with performances like that every week, we are so slow getting forward and have lost the high tempo and pressure from last season.  The balance of the side doesn't look right, we again look weak against the more physical teams.  We were desperate for a quality CB to play alongside Lees and even more desperate for a big bas tard in the centre of  midfield but neither were addressed in the summer. 

we have a quality CB playing alongside lees.....

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14 hours ago, bigthinrob said:

4 points.

 

1  :-  It is disingenuous to say 'People are not asking for a change at this time' and at the same time discussing a replacement.

 

2  :-  If they are not 'asking for a change at this time', how can you say SB is 'available' or more precisely would be available at any time in the future if the situation arose.   Clearly they are talking about 'at this time' ie 'the present'. 

 

3    Apologies for repeating a previous statement from another thread but

  :-  Look backwards and that's exactly where we'll go, as per past examples.

 

4 :- Why the certainty that SB 'would get us back to the Premiership'? 

 

Bruce is a product of another era. He JUST managed to take Hull up with piles of parachute payment money and hasn't exactly set the world on fire with his recent record. 

 

Never got the obsession with 'Big Nige' and equally don't see the obsession with Steve Bruce.

 

Don't see it, and as per the OP, 'be careful what you wish for', because i could easily see us lumbered with a 'past his best' dinosaur and see CC go from strength to strength with a club and fans where he is properly appreciated. 

 

  

 

 

Interesting response. I think that you are being disingenuous by picking certain phrases in isolation and commenting on them rather than looking at the context of my full post.

Firstly, I am reporting what the 'chat' around me is, not necessarily reporting my personal views. So this is what a group of supporters are thinking (and they are neither relations nor close friends).

Secondly, the context of the point about Steve Bruce was in the bullet point immediately preceding it. There is a general feeling that things are not going quite as we had hoped - but it may turn better. But the owner of our club is quite widely reported as having quite a short fuse when people are expected to perform and he has set a very clear target of being back in the Premier League in time for the 150 year celebrations. The rumours of his very blunt response to some of the players complaints about the situation at the training ground make it clear that he speaks his mind and takes quite ruthless action. So people were wondering, with his significant investment over the summer and the ongoing high wages for the new players, how long will he leave things. I noted that he is currently away and has not been at the last 2 home matches but what happens when he returns?

 

So our discussion was around what would happen if he is not satisfied, would he stick with Carlos. And if he didn't, who is available that we as supporters may find acceptable. No words in my original post about "us wanting a change at this time" or " certainty that SB would get us back into the Premier League" or that any of us were actually wishing for Steve Bruce to come to Hillsborough. They are the creations of your fertile imagination.

 

Clearly, you have never considered or discussed with people what might happen when Mr. Chansiri gets fed up?

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