CC has made his recommendations

[gurujuan]

34 minutes ago, kendoddsdadsdogsdead said:

I posted in another thread that if at all possible we should try and get all our best players in the team at the same time, which is easier said than done. I do like the notion of playing 3 at the back, but don't think it will happen. However, would the formation below be any good ?

 

           Westwood

 

Hunt   Lees.  Hutch.  Pudil

 

            Bannan

 

      Lee   Abdi.  FF

 

     Hooper.  Fletcher

 

Its probably squeezing in all our best players, but it doesn't look very well balanced. Thinking of where we may have been weak last season, or should I say, less strong. The three problem areas, if I can call them that, were, a vulnerability to headers in the six yard box, being outmuscled in midfield by opponents who had the edge, in both numbers, and a physical presence. Finally, a lack of real pace in the side. Looking at those players, including the new boys, we haven't really improved either of those areas.

I guess Fletcher would give us a bit more height at set plays, but we've lost height in both, midfield, and defence. It may just be something we have to put up with, but it will surely cost us games again

[kendoddsdadsdogsdead]

Guru, you make some very valid points in terms of height, being out muscled. However, these are the players we have, and while I agree they are not the most physically imposing, I do genuinely feel that their work rate and technical ability may offset the lack of physicality they possess. 

[gurujuan]

Of course, I might add that we would have an extra body in midfield, so I suppose that might help

[spike1867]

5 minutes ago, smhouston said:

Seriously, hunt as a back 3!? Hate being critical, but that person can't have ever seen Hunt play last season!

 

Personally think we'll go with:

 

Westwood

Hunt Lees Hutchinson Pudil

Lee Bannan

Wallace Abdi Forestieri

Fletcher

 

Good knowing we've got plenty of options now. 

It's not a back 3, players drop back to create overloads and packs to chase the ball down. You are thinking too rigidly in terms of formation. Think more along the lines of one formation for organised/established defence, one formation for defensive transition, one formation for attacking transition and one formation for organised attack.  We dont have Dave Jones or Stuart Gray as manager now, we have a modern European coach who has a different approach to how the game is played. I've said this before, read his book and you will see how he thinks about the game.

[PeakOwl]

37 minutes ago, scram said:

 

 

Yeah he's fit and yes i rate him.

 

Was unfortunate that when he came back from injury he couldn't get games as the team were doing well in the premier

 

He played some u21 games to get some match fitness back - but he couldn't break into the team (understandably) and then he was out of contract

 

Obviously nobody knows if there would be any hangover effect from the injury lay-off

 

But he's available free and would be minimal risk in that regard

 

Thanks scram. You'd hope that one of his former teammates is having a word with someone about his talents and availability, though I doubt he'll be short of offers for long. 

 

29 minutes ago, StudentOwl said:

Can only see Ekstrand being good, even if he's not at his best he would be very competent backup, and that's the worst case scenario. Best case is he's able to dethrone Hutch and to partner Lees. The way I see it we'd have one excellent CB and then 3 'good to very  good' CBs battling out for two places.

 

If you've got the likes of Ekstrand or Loovens on the bench, you know your starting CB pairing is good enough to get promotion out of this league.

yeah, looks a bit of a no-brainer to me, not to mention the fact that he's played regularly with 3 of our first team already, so could hit the ground running, as long as he was in reasonable shape ..You'd think inviting him in to train with them would be a mutually beneficial arrangement, if he's without a club atm...?

[ohhh Milan]

On 28 July 2016 at 21:29, Milan Missing Marble said:

Duffy or Manga would be a awesome partner for Lees. Either Anya or Reach would be good additions because their not only quality but can play a few positions. And a decent defensive midfielder would be handy for the squad and a long gruelling season. We're very strong in the goalkeeping, midfield creativity and goalscoring departments. A bit more strength in depth and we'll have a great chance and a realistic shout at going for top two.

 

I think we are in a great position compared to last year. Last season we had a strong 11-12 but the bench at times to change games didn't seem as strong, this year with players like Mattias hopefully bedding in and showing his potential. Accompanied with some astute signings. We have a very strong 14-16 going into the season. Nearly all of which have gelled. With a coulple of more signings, a CB, LB and a midfielder pissibly to come in. Its looking like the money we've spent and the value we have got out of the market in the last 12 months has been amazing.

[scram]

5 hours ago, PeakOwl said:

 

Thanks scram. You'd hope that one of his former teammates is having a word with someone about his talents and availability, though I doubt he'll be short of offers for long. 

 

yeah, looks a bit of a no-brainer to me, not to mention the fact that he's played regularly with 3 of our first team already, so could hit the ground running, as long as he was in reasonable shape ..You'd think inviting him in to train with them would be a mutually beneficial arrangement, if he's without a club atm...?

 

 

I know Brighton and Bristol City were linked with him quite strongly

 

Leeds messed him about

 

His problem is lack of recent playing time and its probably making some clubs jittery

 

But there's no fee and his wage demands wouldn't be outrageous - and he was one of the first names on the teamsheet in Watfords promotion year until his injury

[Ever the pessimist]

As one or two intimated already I think we might play a very fluid system next season. For example a 4-2-3-1 which becomes 4-5-1 or 4-3-3.

 

I am naturally sceptical of such ambiguity as it needs incredibly intelligent players, but then again that caution is probably rooted in having inadequate players for last 20 years.

[MrEdwards]

I really think the intention is to play Hooper and Fletcher as a front two.

 

I know it makes it hard to get our embarrassment of riches at CM on the pitch, but I think we will play both.

[aussieowl87]

25 minutes ago, Ever the pessimist said:

As one or two intimated already I think we might play a very fluid system next season. For example a 4-2-3-1 which becomes 4-5-1 or 4-3-3.

 

I am naturally sceptical of such ambiguity as it needs incredibly intelligent players, but then again that caution is probably rooted in having inadequate players for last 20 years.

 

It takes players to be coached beyond attacking in 3 lines and defending in 2 banks of 5.

 

It isn't overly complex - once players understand their role within a system, the system itself becomes easier to coach.

 

However - throw the word "continental" in there and watch everybody lose their poo poo. 

[Dan™]

6 hours ago, spike1867 said:

We dont have Dave Jones or Stuart Gray as manager now, we have a modern European coach who has a different approach to how the game is played. I've said this before, read his book and you will see how he thinks about the game.

 

But both Hunt and Pudil's best attributes are with how they overlap the wingers and create danger for the opposition fullbacks. That would effectively leave us with just Lees and one of Bannan/Lee at the back whenever we get countered.

 

Also, one of the other things I've noticed that Carvalhal has brought to our defence is how wide the center-backs play when we have the ball. It's almost as if they turn into full-backs so that if we can't break down one side we'll pass it back into defence and can switch the play straight over and start an attack down the other side. That probably wouldn't work too well with just Lees sat in the middle.

[spike1867]

 

7 hours ago, spike1867 said:

Said this for a while, think more 3-3-3-1 or 3-3-1-3. Been some chatter recently about 3-6-1 too which is really modern thinking.  Anybody who watches Atletico Madrid will recognise it.  For us to be even talking about such formations is significant. It is just a huge step above conventional formations/set ups. Most Championship teams would wonder wtf has hit them, they just won't have seen it before. We won't win every match this season, but I reckon we will hammer a few.

 

 Westwood

 

Hunt

Lees

Pudil

 

Hutchinson

Lee

Bannan

 

Matias/Wallace

Abdi

Forestieri

 

Hooper/Fletcher

 

8 minutes ago, Dan™ said:

 

But both Hunt and Pudil's best attributes are with how they overlap the wingers and create danger for the opposition fullbacks. That would effectively leave us with just Lees and one of Bannan/Lee at the back whenever we get countered.

 

Also, one of the other things I've noticed that Carvalhal has brought to our defence is how wide the center-backs play when we have the ball. It's almost as if they turn into full-backs so that if we can't break down one side we'll pass it back into defence and can switch the play straight over and start an attack down the other side. That probably wouldn't work too well with just Lees sat in the middle.

If you note the team I suggested in my previous post, it included Hutchinson.  Playing in this manner requires a CM who is comfortable dropping into CB/CH or vice versa, so in our case its Hutchinson. The other way we could implement this style of play is including another dedicated CB;

 

Westwood

 

Lees

Hutchinson

Loovens

 

Pudil

Lee

Hunt

 

Wallace or Matias

Bannan or Abdi

Forestieri

 

Fletcher or Hooper

 

I'll grant you it takes some wrapping your head round.  It requires incredibly intelligent footballers which is what we have been slowly amassing since CC came in. We've been fed 4-4-2 and 4-5-1 etc since we were kids, but the Guardiola's, Klopps, Mourinho's etc. do not think like this.  They think how do I change my players positions/team shape as quickly and effectively as possible when moving from organised defence to attacking transition to organised attack and back again if we lose the ball.  When the team sheet goes up, it may look like 4-4-2 or whatever, but it probably bears little resemblance to what they drill and practice everyday.  The point I've been trying to make is that now play with a very dynamic, constantly evolving set up.  Its not one formation, its about 6 or 7, all for different periods of play.

 

 

 

 

[fpowl]

8 minutes ago, spike1867 said:

 

 

If you note the team I suggested in my previous post, it included Hutchinson.  Playing in this manner requires a CM who is comfortable dropping into CB/CH or vice versa, so in our case its Hutchinson. The other way we could implement this style of play is including another dedicated CB;

 

Westwood

 

Lees

Hutchinson

Loovens

 

Pudil

Lee

Hunt

 

Wallace or Matias

Bannan or Abdi

Forestieri

 

Fletcher or Hooper

 

I'll grant you it takes some wrapping your head round.  It requires incredibly intelligent footballers which is what we have been slowly amassing since CC came in. We've been fed 4-4-2 and 4-5-1 etc since we were kids, but the Guardiola's, Klopps, Mourinho's etc. do not think like this.  They think how do I change my players positions/team shape as quickly and effectively as possible when moving from organised defence to attacking transition to organised attack and back again if we lose the ball.  When the team sheet goes up, it may look like 4-4-2 or whatever, but it probably bears little resemblance to what they drill and practice everyday.  The point I've been trying to make is that now play with a very dynamic, constantly evolving set up.  Its not one formation, its about 6 or 7, all for different periods of play.

 

 

 

 

Great post

 

Im a big believer that with our players our formation is irrelevant of how it looks as written on paper

 

we are a different set up with out the ball than we are with the ball and none is a 442

 

with the ball we are 

2413 or a 353

with out the ball we are

4231

 some players play a more rigid role than others but it's our fluidity and speed of attack that makes us dangerous and hard to predict.

 

 

[Ever the pessimist]

To the above two posts: This sounds beautiful but I still think in a horrible slog of a season it will come unstuck at times. We will need a more conservative, reliable formation at times against the better teams. I think we will batter teams when on our day but consistency is key in this division.

[nevthelodgemoorowl]

Anyone would think you are all double Dutch as per 74-78 Like It ! Brave but like it !

[spike1867]

Its how we've been playing for the last 12 months, its just we don't see it because that's how its meant to be, seamless transition.  I think there was a little tinkering at the start of last season because of Bannan and Forestieri coming in and because I think it was a step too far for the players to get their heads round so soon.  Another year on, better players, more understanding of what CC is looking for will move us on another step.  Like I said, we may not win every game this season, but some poor souls are going to get a hiding.

[SheffieldGraduate]

I agree the ability to adapt is vital to our progression. Playoff final showed that we have to have greater variation, Hull filled centre of pitch and we couldn't play through them. Fletcher provides the possibility to go more direct.

 

The passing is getting better and faster. The ability to switch the ball is clear to see. The players are hunting in groups when closing down the opposition, thus forcing the oponents to cough up the ball. The quality of players and understanding of the systems we play is very exciting.

 

Questions I am asking myself is how can we be better? Who will be our targets. The chance to provide a hard working style with technically good players is certainly the most excited I have been for decades.

 

[scram]

15 minutes ago, SheffieldGraduate said:

Questions I am asking myself is how can we be better?

 

 

 

By signing players who can break the lines of the opposition and effortlessly plays betwen the lines and has laser-like passing accuracy, can beat opponents and scores goals?

 

We signed the best at this level in Abdi